soxfan3530 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 i love beckham, and i love journey...... but i hate baseball cards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Mar 8, 2009 -> 06:40 PM) Does anyone remember Frank Thomas' spring training in 1990? He tore the cover off the ball but we sent him down saying "he wasn't ready" and we dont want to "hurt his confidence" etc etc. When he was called up he proved the last few months of the year he was ready from the get go. This is nonsense. If he can hit in ST, he can do it in the bigs and what I like about this kid is the fact that he seems really confident out there....we'll see how the next 3 weeks go, it will be interesting... I don't remember much but as I was reading this thread I was thinking the same thing about Thomas and was going to post just what you did if I got through the thread and no one else did. Thanks a lot ! We all might just have to face it. Gordan Beckham may be the next great White Sox hitter. See there that wasn't so bad was it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Honestly, f*** the arb clock. Beckham may be my leadoff hitter right now, in fac the lineup we had out there today is pretty close to how I would make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubano Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Mar 8, 2009 -> 08:50 PM) Hey Cubano... Maybe you have something here... Ozzie on Beckham from whitesox.com I laugh. That is the only thing I can do. I am an outsider guys looking in to MLB. I told you my crystal ball told me something was brewing at 2B. MLB manipulation! When a team wants to send down a player, he has work to do in the minors. When they want to leave him at MLB level, everyting is honky dunky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 QUOTE (Cubano @ Mar 8, 2009 -> 10:29 PM) everyting is honky dunky. i love this. so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 The thing is, Getz has been hitting good as well as Nix. I say unless Beckham clearly shows he's more ready and out preforms them both, you give the spot to the vet and go from there. Unless you wanna go the route of Alexei in CF and Beckham at SS, which might not be that bad of an idea, but I really think Beckham's future is at 2B (or possibly 3B) and I really want to see what Alexei can do at SS as well. Lillibridge is really losing ground fast on the competition. But because he might be the only competent backup SS we will have, we might need to keep him on the roster... We'll see, there still almost 4 weeks left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Mar 8, 2009 -> 10:37 PM) The thing is, Getz has been hitting good as well as Nix. I say unless Beckham clearly shows he's more ready and out preforms them both, you give the spot to the vet and go from there. Unless you wanna go the route of Alexei in CF and Beckham at SS, which might not be that bad of an idea, but I really think Beckham's future is at 2B (or possibly 3B) and I really want to see what Alexei can do at SS as well. Lillibridge is really losing ground fast on the competition. But because he might be the only competent backup SS we will have, we might need to keep him on the roster... We'll see, there still almost 4 weeks left. which one's the vet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Mar 8, 2009 -> 08:37 PM) The thing is, Getz has been hitting good as well as Nix. I say unless Beckham clearly shows he's more ready and out preforms them both, you give the spot to the vet and go from there. Unless you wanna go the route of Alexei in CF and Beckham at SS, which might not be that bad of an idea, but I really think Beckham's future is at 2B (or possibly 3B) and I really want to see what Alexei can do at SS as well. Lillibridge is really losing ground fast on the competition. But because he might be the only competent backup SS we will have, we might need to keep him on the roster... We'll see, there still almost 4 weeks left. If Beckham makes the team he can start at 2nd or SS and Alexei can be the backup SS while starting in CF. If Lillibridge keeps K'ing at his present rate that provides an even bigger opportunity for Gordo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Oh and to hijack the thread for just a moment Floyd has his no hit stuff going today. 4 innings pitched NO hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Mar 8, 2009 -> 09:37 PM) The thing is, Getz has been hitting good as well as Nix. I say unless Beckham clearly shows he's more ready and out preforms them both, you give the spot to the vet and go from there. Unless you wanna go the route of Alexei in CF and Beckham at SS, which might not be that bad of an idea, but I really think Beckham's future is at 2B (or possibly 3B) and I really want to see what Alexei can do at SS as well. Lillibridge is really losing ground fast on the competition. But because he might be the only competent backup SS we will have, we might need to keep him on the roster... We'll see, there still almost 4 weeks left. So what have you SEEN out of Gordon Beckham to make you think he won't be able to stick at short? Sure we've all read "reports" but personally I know I'd never base a strong opinion of my own on what someone else has seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 8, 2009 -> 09:46 PM) So what have you SEEN out of Gordon Beckham to make you think he won't be able to stick at short? Sure we've all read "reports" but personally I know I'd never base a strong opinion of my own on what someone else has seen. I guess my question about all of this is if Alexei's best position is supposedly ss, why the hell are we going to move him to CF so Beckham can play ss? My view is that a middle infield of Alexei/Beckham with Brian in CF is better all-around (meaning both offensively and defensively, comprehensively) than a middle infield of Beckham/Getz with Alexei in CF. Just my opinion, obviously I'd need to see both scenarios play out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I haven't paid much attention to the lineups this spring, has Beckham been facing MLB pitchers or has he been subbing late? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Mar 8, 2009 -> 08:49 PM) I guess my question about all of this is if Alexei's best position is supposedly ss, why the hell are we going to move him to CF so Beckham can play ss? My view is that a middle infield of Alexei/Beckham with Brian in CF is better all-around (meaning both offensively and defensively, comprehensively) than a middle infield of Beckham/Getz with Alexei in CF. Just my opinion, obviously I'd need to see both scenarios play out... Not sure if its his (Alexei's) best position or his preferred position. As of yet we don't know if Alexei can handle SS or CF, we don't know if Beckham can handle SS but we do know BA can handle CF but can't handle the bat. I think a lot of us just want to see the Sox consider it which will be tough since they have more or less handed the SS job to Alexei. If Beckham can buck the odds and make the team I'm 90% sure it would be as the starting 2nd baseman. He won't make the team as the starting SS or utility guy. Hey can Beckham play CF ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeFabregas Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Mar 8, 2009 -> 10:45 PM) Oh and to hijack the thread for just a moment Floyd has his no hit stuff going today. 4 innings pitched NO hits. He also had his when-is-it-going-to-catch-up-with-him,-it-has-to-catch-up-to-him-sometime-right? 1:1 K:B ratio going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 8, 2009 -> 10:46 PM) So what have you SEEN out of Gordon Beckham to make you think he won't be able to stick at short? Sure we've all read "reports" but personally I know I'd never base a strong opinion of my own on what someone else has seen. I never said he can't play SS, I'm just saying that I think his future is at 2B. Part of it is from the reports and the little I have seen, and part of it is the defensive potential of Alexei there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 QUOTE (Reddy @ Mar 8, 2009 -> 10:39 PM) which one's the vet? yes, that was the wrong word. I should have said more experienced. Personally, I'd rather see Beckham get some more seasoning in the minors. There's still a lot of questions about him and a lot of questions about the guys ahead of him. I say keep Beckham at SS in Birmingham and go from there. For all we know Ramirez will be awfull at SS and needs to be moved to the OF, and Getz and Nix form a great platoon at 2B, making an opening at SS. However, if Beckham continues to show he's the man for the job this spring, go for it. I always believe in putting the best lineup out there everyday, and if it involves Beckham, so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot7 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Mar 8, 2009 -> 07:49 PM) I guess my question about all of this is if Alexei's best position is supposedly ss, why the hell are we going to move him to CF so Beckham can play ss? My view is that a middle infield of Alexei/Beckham with Brian in CF is better all-around (meaning both offensively and defensively, comprehensively) than a middle infield of Beckham/Getz with Alexei in CF. Just my opinion, obviously I'd need to see both scenarios play out... Thank you! We tried the Alexei-in-Center experiment last year - why would we try this again? Leave him at short - if he screws it up, then we'll discuss. And last I checked, we have 4 weeks of Spring Training left - let's not hand out the 2B job to anyone just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Mar 8, 2009 -> 08:09 PM) Yeah, but the Twins did it in the middle of the year, as opposed to the beginning of the year, when they did bring him up with the big league team and he got shellacked. So they did give him his shot at the beginning of the year...but you're right, they held him back pretty late when it was clear he was ready down in AAA. Yep, but it was still for the same reasons. I checked Cot's Baseball Contracts and it has Liriano down for 2.104 years service time, so they probably did it to keep him from accumulating 3 years in 2008 and being arb eligible in 2009. I know an extra arb year may help a team keep a certain player, but that's still pretty bush league IMO and sends the wrong message to the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Mar 8, 2009 -> 10:49 PM) I guess my question about all of this is if Alexei's best position is supposedly ss, why the hell are we going to move him to CF so Beckham can play ss? My view is that a middle infield of Alexei/Beckham with Brian in CF is better all-around (meaning both offensively and defensively, comprehensively) than a middle infield of Beckham/Getz with Alexei in CF. Just my opinion, obviously I'd need to see both scenarios play out... I think we need to keep CF open for Danks anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Mar 8, 2009 -> 10:37 PM) Yep, but it was still for the same reasons. I checked Cot's Baseball Contracts and it has Liriano down for 2.104 years service time, so they probably did it to keep him from accumulating 3 years in 2008 and being arb eligible in 2009. I know an extra arb year may help a team keep a certain player, but that's still pretty bush league IMO and sends the wrong message to the players. Oh, that is exactly why they did it. I was just clarifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Mar 8, 2009 -> 11:37 PM) Yep, but it was still for the same reasons. I checked Cot's Baseball Contracts and it has Liriano down for 2.104 years service time, so they probably did it to keep him from accumulating 3 years in 2008 and being arb eligible in 2009. I know an extra arb year may help a team keep a certain player, but that's still pretty bush league IMO and sends the wrong message to the players. What you're accusing the Twins of doing is keeping him in the minors for over 2 months longer than necessary. 2.104 is 68 days short of 3.000 so in order to get that magical 3rd year of service they would have had to recall him about a month after they sent him down. He was optioned to AAA on April 25th and recalled on August 1st, the day you're sent down counts towards your service but the day you're recalled does not, so he didn't get credit for August 1st so we'll have to start there: August 2nd through the end of the season got him to 2.104 add on: August 1st - 1 day all of July - 31 days all of June - 30 days last 7 days of May - 6 days (the day you're called up doesn't count) = 68 days of service and puts him at 3.000 So what you're saying is that Francisco Liriano was good to go on May 25th but the greedy Twins not only left him in the minors for an extra day (if they had recalled him on May 26th he still couldn't have gotten to 3.000, he would have finished the season at 2.171) they let him rot for an extra 2+ months just so they'd have a little leeway in the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 9, 2009 -> 12:01 AM) What you're accusing the Twins of doing is keeping him in the minors for over 2 months longer than necessary. 2.104 is 68 days short of 3.000 so in order to get that magical 3rd year of service they would have had to recall him about a month after they sent him down. He was optioned to AAA on April 25th and recalled on August 1st, the day you're sent down counts towards your service but the day you're recalled does not, so he didn't get credit for August 1st so we'll have to start there: August 2nd through the end of the season got him to 2.104 add on: August 1st - 1 day all of July - 31 days all of June - 30 days last 7 days of May - 6 days (the day you're called up doesn't count) = 68 days of service and puts him at 3.000 So what you're saying is that Francisco Liriano was good to go on May 25th but the greedy Twins not only left him in the minors for an extra day (if they had recalled him on May 26th he still couldn't have gotten to 3.000, he would have finished the season at 2.171) they let him rot for an extra 2+ months just so they'd have a little leeway in the future? Maybe the numbers from the site I took the thing from are wrong. Here's an article from the time and an excerpt: "He's now dominating," Genske told FOXSports.com. "The team agrees he's dominating. (The union) has determined that there is reasonable cause to open an investigation to see whether the Twins, by leaving him in the minors, are violating his rights in the Basic Agreement." If Liriano filed a grievance, he could seek either a restoration of major-league service time, financial compensation or both. His loss of major-league time already will prevent him from qualifying for salary arbitration with three years of service and almost certainly will prevent him from qualifying as a "Super Two" player as well. If the union determines there's reasonable cause to investigate the Twins for being shady, then it is reasonable to suspect the Twins of being shady. Edited March 9, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I think the case can be made by the Twins that they gave him ample opportunity early in the season...and he proved he wasn't ready. Therefore, in their minds, they were justified in being "conservative" with him because they wanted to make sure he was 100% before the recall. Actually, while he mowed down quite a few subpar offenses (he did beat the Rays once), he wasn't nearly as dominating as one would think and he lost a crucial game to the Royals (I think it was Friday night of the final weekend) that was one of many "lost" games for the Sox and Twins down the stretch that turned out to be crucial. Livan Hernandez was horrible statistically, but he kept winning games the first three months. They had Slowey, Baker, Perkins and Blackburn...along with Bonser...so they didn't have to bring him back. In retrospect, you substitute the last 6 weeks of Hernandez for Liriano and the Twins probably win the division, but there were tons of "what ifs" surrounding the White Sox, too (Quentin's injury being one of many). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Mar 9, 2009 -> 12:12 AM) Maybe the numbers from the site I took the thing from are wrong. Here's an article from the time and an excerpt: If the union determines there's reasonable cause to investigate the Twins for being shady, then it is reasonable to suspect the Twins of being shady. Ick. All I know is what the numbers tell me. The 2.104 sounds about right. He got a September callup back in 2005 that accounted for about 25 days of service. He was in the majors for all of 2006 and 2007 so that's about 2.025 right there. He spent most of April and all of August and September in the majors which should account for the remaining 79 days of service. Him not qualifying for Super Two status thanks to the Twins' shenanigans is a whole 'nother story. That right there might be a legitimate gripe. In order to qualify for Super Two status a player has to accumulate 86 days of service in the immediately preceding season and he only got about 80 last year. I'm not sure his production was good enough to qualify him but they may have screwed him out of service time to make sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) Lillibridge is supposed to be back and starting at SS after returning from the ubiquitous "flu-like" symptoms. Beckham , not sure if he will be the B game in the morning against the Dodgers or the afternoon game. Nix will be back Tuesday or Wednesday from the quad strain. "I feel fine," Beckham said of playing second base. "I still have to work on the feeds a little bit. I still have to work on getting my feet underneath me and making sure I'm throwing a strike over to first. If I can do that, I think I'll be all right." www.suntimes.com/sports Edited March 9, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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