Is Beckham the new 2B?

[lostfan]

I think we've created a caricature of Ozzie that is not realistic. He's not perfect, but more often than not he just strings us along for a while before making the correct (in our opinions) decision.

I think this is accurate.

[ILMOU]

I really don't buy that. Frankly, each off season we give our ideal lineups and say, 'oh but ozzie is too stupid to do that because he has a man crush on x, etc.' 'If owens hadn't gotten hurt Quentin would've never played' etc etc.

 

But last year we were all saying how the best place for swish to hit was at the top because of his high OBP, but we all said that ozzie's obsession with speed would never let that happen. He let it happen, and it failed, and he made due with the best he had. I think Getz will be our leadoff hitter, but I don't think it is good for Getz to hear it's his position to lose. For Fields, I think it was better for him to hear this was his shot, don't f*** it up. But for Getz, the competition is healthy and he just needs to worry about his position.

 

I think we've created a caricature of Ozzie that is not realistic. He's not perfect, but more often than not he just strings us along for a while before making the correct (in our opinions) decision.

 

Well put.

[maggliopipe]

i'd wait to start beckhams arb clock and then have this as my lineup when they want to start him

 

Getz 2b

Beckham SS

Quentin LF

Thome DH

Dye RF

Konerko 1b

AJ C

Ramirez Cf

Fields 3b

 

Bench of Betemit, Anderson, Lillibridge (PR and Def. replacement) and Lucy

 

MB, Gavin, Danks, Colon, Contreras

Jenks, Linebrink, Thornton, Dotel, Richard, Carrasco, Marquez/Broadway/Russell/Wasserman/Nunez (I am intrigued by nunez, but really like broadway in that mop up, nick masset role. Would like to see Marquez starting, don't think Wasserman has what it takes especially for multiple innings, and russell has been brutal)

 

won't happen though, as the organization seems pretty stubborn at keeping alexei at SS even though its possible he would be a better CF than SS defensively (see BJ upton) and we have a gaping hole in CF right now

 

I love that lineup but Alexei hasn't gotten any time in CF since a few games at the start of last year (correct me if I'm wrong and he's gotten time there this ST). He looked pretty bad out there too. So bad in fact that I find it hard to believe that was his primary position in Cuba. If something like this were to happen to be the team's plan, then they need to get Alexei some time in CF starting right now.

 

[Kalapse]

right, I'm just saying we shouldn't move him to CF, he's more valuable as is. I think Alexei should move a bit north.

Yeah, his personal value is at its highest when he's playing short (assuming of course that he doesn't suck defensively) but his highest value to the team would be in CF since we actually have some good, young middle infielders and really nothing of value in CF.

[bmags]

Yeah, his personal value is at its highest when he's playing short (assuming of course that he doesn't suck defensively) but his highest value to the team would be in CF since we actually have some good, young middle infielders and really nothing of value in CF.

 

Why move Beckham though, who has played SS for quite a while and likely could develop into a great SS, and move Alexei, whom has seemingly played outfield before for quite a while? Is Alexei's highest value to the team at SS?

[Kalapse]

Why move Beckham though, who has played SS for quite a while and likely could develop into a great SS, and move Alexei, whom has seemingly played outfield before for quite a while? Is Alexei's highest value to the team at SS?

2B - Getz

SS - Beckham

CF - Ramirez

 

Beckham and Getz play their natural positions and Alexei moves to a position he has handled in the past. With this configuration you limit the number of bad players you're plugging into these positions. If Alexei plays short there will be a bad player in center, if he plays center there will be a green but talented young player at SS. That's all. It's harder to find an excellent offensive player who can handle SS than it is to find one who can handle center. So for Alexei playing short would likely make him the most money and on most teams he'd be most valuable at short. However this team has another young player who looks like he's going to be a very good offensive player who can handle short. So to the Sox Alexei would be most valuable filling one of the other holes in the lineup (CF) while the other young shortstop takes his position.

[bmags]

2B - Getz

SS - Beckham

CF - Ramirez

 

Beckham and Getz play their natural positions and Alexei moves to a position he has handled in the past. With this configuration you limit the number of bad players you're plugging into these positions. If Alexei plays short there will be a bad player in center, if he plays center there will be a green but talented young player at SS. That's all. It's harder to find an excellent offensive player who can handle SS than it is to find one who can handle center. So for Alexei playing short would likely make him the most money and on most teams he'd be most valuable at short. However this team has another young player who looks like he's going to be a very good offensive player who can handle short. So to the Sox Alexei would be most valuable filling one of the other holes in the lineup (CF) while the other young shortstop takes his position.

 

We weren't disagreeing, one bit. I was apparently setting you up nicely though.

[justBLAZE]

We can't really say Alexei would be a good CF.

 

For all we know he's a decent 2B and that doesn't solve our leadoff situation, how do we know if Getz can bat leadoff?

Edited March 10, 2009 by tommy

[Kalapse]

We can't really say Alexei would be a good CF.

 

For all we know he's a decent 2B and that doesn't solve our leadoff situation, how do we know if Getz can bat leadoff?

He was good enough in CF last spring to win the starting job out there. We can't really say he's a good SS either but as of right now it certainly looks like that's where he's going to start the season. I don't KNOW Getz can leadoff, I just know I'd rather see his high contact approach, moderate BB rate, low K rate at the top of the lineup than the atrocious Jerry Owens.

[iamshack]

He was good enough in CF last spring to win the starting job out there. We can't really say he's a good SS either but as of right now it certainly looks like that's where he's going to start the season. I don't KNOW Getz can leadoff, I just know I'd rather see his high contact approach, moderate BB rate, low K rate at the top of the lineup than the atrocious Jerry Owens.

 

Winning the CF job last year is the equivalent to being the tallest midget (that is, if you factor in that Brian was not going to get the job no matter what he did in the Spring).

 

I see your point with this configuration, but I would still rather move Alexei to his supposed "most-natural" or "best" position, start Beckham out at 2b, and put Brian in CF. You could then allow Beckham to lead off, hit Alexei second, and Brian ninth.

 

Either way, I think they are both decent solutions, but I just think our team benefits greatly having Brian manning CF since we insist on playing both Dye and Q out of position....

[Balta1701]

Either way, I think they are both decent solutions, but I just think our team benefits greatly having Brian manning CF since we insist on playing both Dye and Q out of position....

It doesn't work the best for our lineup, but if we wanted to focus on strong defense up the middle to balance out Fields, Dye, and Konerko on the corners, the best defense we could put out there appears to be:

 

Alexei: SS

Anderson: CF

Nix: 2b.

 

Plugging anyone else in at short is probably going to set us back some on defense, based solely on statements about Alexei from the organization. Beckham's probably the next in line there, and frankly I can't speak to his defense. Anyone we swap in to CF would be a significant downgrade. I haven't seen much of them, but previous reports have Nix being a remarkably good defender at 2b. Swapping in Getz or Lillibridge would likely be a step backwards from there.

[daa84]

He was good enough in CF last spring to win the starting job out there. We can't really say he's a good SS either but as of right now it certainly looks like that's where he's going to start the season. I don't KNOW Getz can leadoff, I just know I'd rather see his high contact approach, moderate BB rate, low K rate at the top of the lineup than the atrocious Jerry Owens.

agreed with all of this. And in fact, the defensive metrics Alexei had at 2b last year suggest he might actually be a BAD shortstop. At least just looking at him at CF IMO is something that needs to be done this ST, even if he doesn't play there come April 6, why not explore the option when CF is such a hole, and it appears that we might have a strong candidate to play SS by June, if not right away. Besides, according to Cubano, Alexei is most experienced playing CF anyways....and Kalapse is exactly right, if he was good enough to start in CF last year, why not this year?

[iamshack]

agreed with all of this. And in fact, the defensive metrics Alexei had at 2b last year suggest he might actually be a BAD shortstop. At least just looking at him at CF IMO is something that needs to be done this ST, even if he doesn't play there come April 6, why not explore the option when CF is such a hole, and it appears that we might have a strong candidate to play SS by June, if not right away. Besides, according to Cubano, Alexei is most experienced playing CF anyways....and Kalapse is exactly right, if he was good enough to start in CF last year, why not this year?

 

I wouldn't say he necessarily "won" the starting CF position last year. He more backed into it by default. He started the first couple games there and then never really returned on a regular basis. And even the morning of the first game, when he was announced as the starter, was a surprise to most.

 

He wasn't good out there last year, and he won't be good out there this year, especially after working at ss all offseason.

 

And honestly, how can you not put your best defensive CF out there if you're going to have Dye and Quentin playing the wrong corner OF position?

 

To me, it is a no-brainer.

[daa84]

I wouldn't say he necessarily "won" the starting CF position last year. He more backed into it by default. He started the first couple games there and then never really returned on a regular basis. And even the morning of the first game, when he was announced as the starter, was a surprise to most.

 

He wasn't good out there last year, and he won't be good out there this year, especially after working at ss all offseason.

 

And honestly, how can you not put your best defensive CF out there if you're going to have Dye and Quentin playing the wrong corner OF position?

 

To me, it is a no-brainer.

i'm definitely ok with brian in CF, as long is it keeps Dweezy and Owens off the field. But Alexei had only a handful of games in CF, and I don't at all remember him being "not good." Even if he was not good, I guess i'll im saying is why not just look at Alexei in CF during spring? just to see what we might have there....I don't really think it sets him back any. My big problem with brian is I have serious doubts whether he can really be a big league hitter. I think he has the power to hit 15-20 HR, but I also think he's going to end up being a .230 average, .280 obp type guy...

[bmags]

Always hatin on dweezy for NO REASON

[RockRaines]

Always hatin on dweezy for NO REASON

His numbers would be one reason.

[TLAK]

It might boil down to Beckham & Wise Vs Lillibridge & Getz. If you keep Beckham he can back up SS but you need another OF, assuming they are in still love with Owens, and that would be Wise (no pun) as the 5th OF. If Beckham goes down then Lillibridge has to be on the team as the only legit SS backup but I don't think he'll hit enough to play 2B everyday so you need Getz on the team too. Since Lillibridge can also back up in OF you wouldn't need Wise.

 

Simple.

[RockRaines]

It might boil down to Beckham & Wise Vs Lillibridge & Getz. If you keep Beckham he can back up SS but you need another OF, assuming they are in still love with Owens, and that would be Wise (no pun) as the 5th OF. If Beckham goes down then Lillibridge has to be on the team as the only legit SS backup but I don't think he'll hit enough to play 2B everyday so you need Getz on the team too. Since Lillibridge can also back up in OF you wouldn't need Wise.

 

Simple.

Of'ers

 

Alexei

BA

Dye

Q

Kroeger

Lillibridge

[SouthsideDon48]

I think, no matter who ends up playing at 2B, that Brian Anderson should be sent to AAA. I don't want Anderson anywhere near the team.

[Kalapse]

I think, no matter who ends up playing at 2B, that Brian Anderson should be sent to AAA. I don't want Anderson anywhere near the team.

And why is that? Because he's the only one of the 3 players competing for the CF job with at least 1 major league quality tool? Or is because you just don't like him and keep repeating yourself without giving any good reasoning?

[SouthsideDon48]

And why is that? Because he's the only one of the 3 players competing for the CF job with at least 1 major league quality tool? Or is because you just don't like him and keep repeating yourself without giving any good reasoning?

 

Because I don't want to see a repeat of 2006 with Anderson getting another shot at being on the everyday lineup in 2009. His bat's a joke, and his defense alone is not enough for me to like the idea of him being on the lineup everyday, even if it's batting 9th.

[Kalapse]

Because I don't want to see a repeat of 2006 with Anderson getting another shot at being on the everyday lineup in 2009. His bat's a joke, and his defense alone is not enough for me to like the idea of him being on the lineup everyday, even if it's batting 9th.

You know who else's bat is a joke? Dewayne Wise and Jerry Owens. At least Brian can play elite defense unlike the other 2.

[SouthsideDon48]

You know who else's bat is a joke? Dewayne Wise and Jerry Owens. At least Brian can play elite defense unlike the other 2.

 

Well I think both Anderson and Owens should go to AAA.

 

I think we'd be better off looking into having Kroeger as our everyday CF and Wise as our 4th outfielder.

 

I just hate Anderson as much as other people hate Owens, if not more. I'd still rather have Wise in the 25-man roster over Anderson, he brings the speed and base-stealing ability this team needs, which Owens can't provide. Plus it seems to me that Anderson wouldn't be getting as much love by White Sox fans he's getting if he wasn't white.

 

When it comes to having a "defensive replacement" on the team, I'd rather have Juan Uribe, and that's saying a lot.

[Kalapse]

Well I think both Anderson and Owens should go to AAA.

 

I think we'd be better off looking into having Kroeger as our everyday CF and Wise as our 4th outfielder.

 

I just hate Anderson as much as other people hate Owens, if not more. I'd still rather have Wise in the 25-man roster over Anderson, he brings the speed and base-stealing ability this team needs, which Owens can't provide. Plus it seems to me that Anderson wouldn't be getting as much love by White Sox fans he's getting if he wasn't white.

 

When it comes to having a "defensive replacement" on the team, I'd rather have Juan Uribe, and that's saying a lot.

That's just f***ing ignorant.

 

Can Josh Kroeger play CF? Because he's yet to play even an inning out there this spring. It seems to me that the Sox would want to get him some looks out there if he were capable given how great he's looked at the plate.

[lostfan]

That's just f***ing ignorant.

Goddammit Kalapse stop posting things before I can. lol

 

edit: I can't even come up with a comparable example to illustrate how ridiculous of a statement that is without switching sports because there really just aren't that many black players in MLB, I guess I'd have to use a different minority.

Edited March 11, 2009 by lostfan