RotoWorld Suggests White Sox should sign Jim Edmonds

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I get what he's saying. And what I'm saying is that I don't have to wait to see if Young becomes Grady Sizemore the sequel to determine if the trade was a bad one. It turned bad the minute Kenny and co determined that Brian Anderson was ready to take over in 2006. Which obviously wasn't anywhere near the case.

The Javy trade was fair value for both sides and seemed like a great move to run out possibly the best rotation in baseball at the time.

 

Why aren't you ragging on the Thome deal then? That's the deal that sent Rowand out of here and put Anderson in CF. Young wouldn't have made this team until the 2007 season anyway.

 

The Javy trade has nothing to do with the Sox making a poor decision starting Brian every day. In fact, they never said he was ready, I believe they have always said the opposite. They said going into the season that all Brian had to do was play D and whatever he could contribute offensively would have been a bonus. But guess what? They threw him under the bus by I believe mid-May. And if you look at the potency of the lineup of the '06 squad, Anderson was NEVER a reason to complain. The problem with that team was the pitching, most notably the front of the bullpen. All Brian did out there was help the pitching, which was the biggest weakness on the team. Ozzie Guillen started Rob Mackowiak that season because Ozzie is prone to stupid baseball decisions. When you can't pitch, the last thing you do is weaken your defense for more offense.

[Jordan4life_2007]

The Javy trade was fair value for both sides and seemed like a great move to run out possibly the best rotation in baseball at the time.

 

Why aren't you ragging on the Thome deal then? That's the deal that sent Rowand out of here and put Anderson in CF. Young wouldn't have made this team until the 2007 season anyway.

 

The Javy trade has nothing to do with the Sox making a poor decision starting Brian every day. In fact, they never said he was ready, I believe they have always said the opposite. They said going into the season that all Brian had to do was play D and whatever he could contribute offensively would have been a bonus. But guess what? They threw him under the bus by I believe mid-May. And if you look at the potency of the lineup of the '06 squad, Anderson was NEVER a reason to complain. The problem with that team was the pitching, most notably the front of the bullpen. All Brian did out there was help the pitching, which was the biggest weakness on the team. Ozzie Guillen started Rob Mackowiak that season because Ozzie is prone to stupid baseball decisions. When you can't pitch, the last thing you do is weaken your defense for more offense.

 

C'mon, KP. Do you really believe the expectation for Brian was that as long as he played solid defense that he could hit .175-.200 and it would be acceptable? That's unacceptable for a team coming off a title. The Sox thought they were dealing from a position of strength. I clearly remember Kenny stating that one of the reasons he felt so confident in trading Rowand/Young was because they felt BA was ready. I'll look for quotes later.

Edited March 17, 2009 by Jordan4life

[Jordan4life_2007]

Wow, this didn't take as long as I thought it would.

 

PHOENIX (MCT) -- You can’t hit the ball with the bat on your shoulder.

 

Sure, Ken Williams knew he was taking a risk when he traded Chris Young to the Arizona Diamondbacks two years ago. He was living dangerously, and he knew it, but he couldn’t foresee how little impact Javier Vazquez would have on the White Sox. Nor could he know that Brian Anderson would suffer an allergic reaction to big-league pitching.

 

Still, in the spring of 2006, when he was still dreaming of a long run atop the American League, Williams acknowledged the risks he was taking in regularly trading young talent for known quantities like Vazquez.

 

“One of these deals is going to come back to haunt us,” Williams said during a talk at the Sox’s Tucson minor-league complex. “It’s part of the price that we pay to try to win on a consistent basis, not just every now and then. I know that’s going to happen. There’s going to be a guy who shows up in the ESPN highlights all the time, making me get sick to my stomach. Chris could be that guy. He’s a really good player, but not the only one we’ve got.”

 

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/08...c0357539409.prt

 

The bold is pretty cut and dry to me. Kenny and his people messed up. It happens. Just recognize it and move on.

 

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

C'mon, KP. Do you really believe the expectation for Brian was that as long as he played solid defense that he could hit .175-.200 and it would be acceptable? That's unacceptable for a team coming off a title. The Sox thought they were dealing from a position of strength. I clearly remember Kenny stating that one of the reasons he felt so confident in trading Rowand/Young was because they felt BA was ready. I'll look for quotes later.

Walker was quoted in story about Brian last ST, saying basically that the Sox knew he had a ton of work to do on his swing, and they knew he wasn't going to be able to hit MLB pitching, but they decided not to do anything about it. I guess they wanted him to go with it on his own and then make adjustments later. Then there were stories that said Anderson wasn't very receptive towards making changes to his swing, and supposedly it was that among other things that got him in the doghouse.

 

The problem is, if you think a kid can't hit MLB pitching, but you expect you CFers to hit MLB pitching, then DON'T bring the damn kid up. Make him work on things in the minor leagues. This "we won't fix anything until the player struggles" garbage doesn't always work. It doesn't work with players like Brian who have gotten by throughout their careers on talent and tools alone. Some players are not going to fail AT ALL until they reach a level where they can no longer just get by on natural ability. The Sox knew what they were getting into without a doubt, because they even admitted it.

 

As for Kenny's comments, all I can remember hearing was the "just give us defense, that's all we ask" stuff. Even if he told the media that he was ready to hit in the bigs, which I doubt he did, but even if he did say that, then he'd have to be blind to not see Brian's inability to catch up to fastballs. If you can't hit a good fastball in the majors then you just can't hit. Whatever Kenny said, the man knew what he was doing. He thought we have enough offense to cover an offensive hole in CF, so he allocated his funds to other areas. He was right; all Kenny actually got wrong that season was the bullpen. It was Ozzie BTW that decided to bench Anderson and put Mack-o-whack out there, not Kenny. And obviously Kenny is going to back his manager.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Wow, this didn't take as long as I thought it would.

 

PHOENIX (MCT) -- You can’t hit the ball with the bat on your shoulder.

 

Sure, Ken Williams knew he was taking a risk when he traded Chris Young to the Arizona Diamondbacks two years ago. He was living dangerously, and he knew it, but he couldn’t foresee how little impact Javier Vazquez would have on the White Sox. Nor could he know that Brian Anderson would suffer an allergic reaction to big-league pitching.

 

Still, in the spring of 2006, when he was still dreaming of a long run atop the American League, Williams acknowledged the risks he was taking in regularly trading young talent for known quantities like Vazquez.

 

“One of these deals is going to come back to haunt us,” Williams said during a talk at the Sox’s Tucson minor-league complex. “It’s part of the price that we pay to try to win on a consistent basis, not just every now and then. I know that’s going to happen. There’s going to be a guy who shows up in the ESPN highlights all the time, making me get sick to my stomach. Chris could be that guy. He’s a really good player, but not the only one we’ve got.”

 

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/08...c0357539409.prt

 

The bold is pretty cut and dry to me. Kenny and his people messed up. It happens. Just recognize it and move on.

 

If a .243/.306/.451 career line is making Kenny Williams sick to his stomach, then he should sit down, take a deep breath, and relax, because that guy is playing in Arizona. Minus the SB, that line is very attainable for Brian in regular playing time, who hit .232/.272/.436 off the bench last year.

[lostfan]

Wow, this didn't take as long as I thought it would.

 

PHOENIX (MCT) -- You can’t hit the ball with the bat on your shoulder.

 

Sure, Ken Williams knew he was taking a risk when he traded Chris Young to the Arizona Diamondbacks two years ago. He was living dangerously, and he knew it, but he couldn’t foresee how little impact Javier Vazquez would have on the White Sox. Nor could he know that Brian Anderson would suffer an allergic reaction to big-league pitching.

 

Still, in the spring of 2006, when he was still dreaming of a long run atop the American League, Williams acknowledged the risks he was taking in regularly trading young talent for known quantities like Vazquez.

 

“One of these deals is going to come back to haunt us,” Williams said during a talk at the Sox’s Tucson minor-league complex. “It’s part of the price that we pay to try to win on a consistent basis, not just every now and then. I know that’s going to happen. There’s going to be a guy who shows up in the ESPN highlights all the time, making me get sick to my stomach. Chris could be that guy. He’s a really good player, but not the only one we’ve got.”

 

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/08...c0357539409.prt

 

The bold is pretty cut and dry to me. Kenny and his people messed up. It happens. Just recognize it and move on.

And yet, still he said "could." Maybe spot him an extra 50 points of batting average, assuming he keeps the walks.

[bmags]

Oh man, KHP just reminded me I've never been more wrong in my life than when I was mad at KW for not signing Andruw Jones last year. Never let me be a GM. I'd be worse than hawk.

[RockRaines]

Still with the Chris Young crap? I swear some folks on here are of the impression he's actually been a good player.

[Kyyle23]

Chris Young would be eaten alive BA-style on this website if he had those numbers while playing CF for the Sox last year.

 

We would be in the same position right now, looking for a CF while considering all of the alternatives

[Balta1701]

Chris Young would be eaten alive BA-style on this website if he had those numbers while playing CF for the Sox last year.

 

We would be in the same position right now, looking for a CF while considering all of the alternatives

Eh, with his defense, Chris Young would be a solid #7/#8 hitter in our lineup and I'd have no complaints. That's of course assuming he'd get playing time.

[Kyyle23]

Eh, with his defense, Chris Young would be a solid #7/#8 hitter in our lineup and I'd have no complaints. That's of course assuming he'd get playing time.

 

Im not talking about you specifically, Im talking about the site in general. Lets face it, we are all hyperventilating crazies when it comes to our own players performing

[ILMOU]

I never liked the Vazquez trade from the get-go. This, and the trade to acquire Swisher, as well as Aaron Cunningham for Richar are the only significant trade mistakes KW has made, IMO.

 

It wasn't so much that I was certain Young would become a star - he hasn't yet, and might never. It was because Javy was 11-14 with a 4.42 ERA in '05 pitching in lightest-hitting, biggest average ballpark division in baseball. There was likely someone better we could have received for Young, El Duque and Vizcaino.

 

We lucked out on the Swisher trade in that DLS may never be the same after his injury - otherwise that one would truly blow. Nice recovery with Marquez, it would appear, however.

 

We'll see if Cunningham becomes a player - I think he'll at least be a contributor.

 

Overall, KW's record is outstanding on trades. And, yes, let's get Jimmy Edmonds in here if nothing changes in the next 10 days-2 weeks.

 

Ozzie's going to have to get over not wanting Getz to be a leadoff man to start his MLB career, because right now he's our best (only) option. This "too much pressure" stuff seems overrated to me. Here's a St. Patty's Day toast to DWise stinking it up the rest of the month.

 

 

 

[RockRaines]

Eh, with his defense, Chris Young would be a solid #7/#8 hitter in our lineup and I'd have no complaints. That's of course assuming he'd get playing time.

So, just like BA really.

[Balta1701]

So, just like BA really.

Basically exactly, except maybe a few more stolen bases. Oh, and the manager would play him. That's a pretty big differenc.e

[RockRaines]

Basically exactly, except maybe a few more stolen bases. Oh, and the manager would play him. That's a pretty big differenc.e

Touche. All in all, KW's judgement wasnt all that off. He thought BA would give us similar production and he was mostly correct. If BA played everyday they may put up similar defensive metrics as well and offensive stats save the SB's.

[SouthsideDon48]

Chris Young would be eaten alive BA-style on this website if he had those numbers while playing CF for the Sox last year.

 

We would be in the same position right now, looking for a CF while considering all of the alternatives

 

Last year Chris Young scored 85 runs, had 22 homers, had 85 rbi's, and 14 stolen bases, that's not something Anderson can do. Sure Young had a .248 average, but he actually produces and, as another person mentioned, Young would be pretty good in the 7, 8, or 9 spots in the lineup, and I wouldn't even mind if he batted leadoff.

[Balta1701]

Last year Chris Young scored 85 runs, had 22 homers, had 85 rbi's, and 14 stolen bases, that's not something Anderson can do. Sure Young had a .248 average, but he actually produces and, as another person mentioned, Young would be pretty good in the 7, 8, or 9 spots in the lineup, and I wouldn't even mind if he batted leadoff.

With that .315 OBP? and 165 k's? There's a reason the D-Backs stopped having him lead off, he was a disaster at leadoff.

 

Last year, Chris Young had 625 at bats. In his career, Brian Anderson has 597 at bats, including his really rough stint his first few months which probably wouldn't represent his average performance now. In those 597 at bats, Anderson has 18 home runs, 76 runs scored, 62 RBI, has 10 steals, 154k, and a handful fewer walks. If I did the data massaging to exclude April, May, and June of 06 when he was really bad, his numbers would get even better.

 

Chris Young and Brian Anderson right now are so close to the same player it's really not funny. Young may well still have substantial upside. Frankly, so may Anderson. And quite simply, for both of them it will come down to whether or not they can cut down on the strikeouts. They have the same basic flaw.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

With that .315 OBP? and 165 k's? There's a reason the D-Backs stopped having him lead off, he was a disaster at leadoff.

 

Last year, Chris Young had 625 at bats. In his career, Brian Anderson has 597 at bats, including his really rough stint his first few months which probably wouldn't represent his average performance now. In those 597 at bats, Anderson has 18 home runs, 76 runs scored, 62 RBI, has 10 steals, 154k, and a handful fewer walks. If I did the data massaging to exclude April, May, and June of 06 when he was really bad, his numbers would get even better.

 

Chris Young and Brian Anderson right now are so close to the same player it's really not funny. Young may well still have substantial upside. Frankly, so may Anderson. And quite simply, for both of them it will come down to whether or not they can cut down on the strikeouts. They have the same basic flaw.

+1

 

Brian is infinitely capable of putting up the same lines Chris Young can with the biggest difference being that Young will steal more bases under a manager like Ozzie. The only reason Brian gets ragged on here is because people don't think he can put up numbers *better* than Chris Young has. And what makes it so absurd is the idea that there are probably fans who think Chris Young is a far better player than Brian is, and that Owens and Wise are far better hitters than Brian as well. Well, would anyone say Dewayne Wise is better than Chris Young? Would anyone say Jerry Owens is better than Chris Young? Probably not.

 

Chris Young is a product of the old days of the Sox system the past few years that, hopefully, are never to return again. Chris Young was a very exciting prospect, as was Fautino De los Santos and Gio Gonzalez. People go crazy about these guys on Sox fan forums because they, for some reason, cannot understand that even though they are/were very good prospects with the potential to do some very nice things at the Major League level, there ARE in fact lots of other prospects in baseball that fit the same description, AND in order to get something good in trade, you have to either surrender something good in return, or surrender something that is not good now but has the potential to be very good in the future. That's how this thing works. Hopefully in the future, when we trade 'spects like Young, DLS, and Gio, we will have enough depth in our farm that we'll be trading from a surplus instead of dealing the only chips we've got.

Edited March 18, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[witesoxfan]

Last year Chris Young scored 85 runs, had 22 homers, had 85 rbi's, and 14 stolen bases, that's not something Anderson can do. Sure Young had a .248 average, but he actually produces and, as another person mentioned, Young would be pretty good in the 7, 8, or 9 spots in the lineup, and I wouldn't even mind if he batted leadoff.

 

You do not know that Anderson cannot do that. Do not say something you cannot prove.

[Kalapse]

You do not know that Anderson cannot do that. Do not say something you cannot prove.

f***ing Jose Lopez nearly put up 85/85/20 last year while playing half his games at Safeco, hitting in an awful lineup and being bad. Give Nick Swisher more than 588 PA last year and he does it with ease (finished with 24/86/69).

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'll just end my thoughts on this subject (like many have said, this is a tired topic and should be put to rest) by saying that I think Chris Young to this point is beyond a shadow of a doubt a better player than BA and at 25 can get better. Brian's upside? I don't know. We haven't seen anything from him yet. We haven't even seen flashes. And it's not simply a case of "The evil Ozzie won't play him more." Quite frankly, Brian has yet to make a case for himself to be an everyday player. He sucked in 2006. He's sent back down to triple AAA in 2007, and instead of making Ozzie look like a fool for going with Erstad, he produces a .255/.318/.435 line. Therefore justifying Ozzie's decision to go with Erstad (although Erstad obviously sucked). Last year, in a role in which he was put in a solid situation to succeed, (I.E. Ozzie cherry picking when he started against mostly mediocre pitching), still couldn't produce better than a .232/.272/.436 line. The excuses get tired after a while. It's on Brian, and only Brian, to force Ozzie's hand.

[Heads22]

I do believe 07 was the year Brian hurt himself in AAA.

[Princess Dye]

You do not know that Anderson cannot do that. Do not say something you cannot prove.

 

How many more years will we say this? Will BA get to 32 years of age and still be the untested unknown Babe Ruth. Ae!

[ThunderBolt]

I enjoy how quickly a suggestion about Edmonds became yet another Anderson/Young debate.

[SouthsideDon48]

You do not know that Anderson cannot do that. Do not say something you cannot prove.

 

Well I've seen enough of Brian Anderson to be able to say with conviction that I believe, with a full season of at-bats, that Anderson cannot do any better than 15 home runs, 60 rbi's, and a .235 average. At best. There's better centerfielders out there, and it's time to forget about Anderson. Anderson's nothing more than an outfield version of Cesar Izturis.