StatManDu Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 (edited) Who's next for the great Cooooo? Retiring Rafael Palmeiro's number? Use the link for a take on the Cubs' 'honoring' Greg Maddux http://www.kenoshanews.com/sports/marran__...er_4607651.html Edited March 22, 2009 by StatManDu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Greg Maddux won 133 games for the Cubs, which is 11 more than Mark Buerhle has won for the White Sox, and a Cy Young. He's also a first ballot HOFer. The Cubs are totally justified retiring his number. The question to me would be why it even was available to him in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 The real question is, what number will Gordon Beckham wear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 it would be badass for beckham to stick with the 80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 22, 2009 -> 11:23 AM) Greg Maddux won 133 games for the Cubs, which is 11 more than Mark Buerhle has won for the White Sox, and a Cy Young. He's also a first ballot HOFer. The Cubs are totally justified retiring his number. The question to me would be why it even was available to him in the first place? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yes! The 'other' #31... Ferguson Jenkins... Started more games than any pitcher in Cubs history He's their all-time strikeout leader He's 5th in wins (and most of the other players on the wins list are from a long long time ago) He's 4th all-time in shutouts (ditto on the list of players he's behind... like Mordecai Brown, Hippo Vaughn, etc.) And he's been inducted into the baseball HOF ('91). He is one of the best pitchers I have ever seen in Chicago... an absolute workhorse. I think the way the Cubs organization treated Fergie for so long illustrates how clueless their organization has been for most of the last 40 years. Edited March 23, 2009 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBatterz Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Have the Cubbies retired the jersey of Bruce Sutter who won the Cy Young award in 1979 before leaving for the Cardinals were he too won a World Series? Maybe the Nationals can retire the number of Pedro Martinez since he won the Cy Young award with the Expos before they traded him to the Red Sox. Seems a bit goofy to include Maddux when his greatest success was achieved with another team. Why would you want that reminder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 22, 2009 -> 12:23 PM) Greg Maddux won 133 games for the Cubs, which is 11 more than Mark Buerhle has won for the White Sox, and a Cy Young. He's also a first ballot HOFer. The Cubs are totally justified retiring his number. The question to me would be why it even was available to him in the first place? [Fergie Jenkins] achieved his 250th win was against the Oakland Athletics on May 23, 1980. Later that year, during a customs search in Toronto, Ontario, Jenkins was found possessing 3.0 grams cocaine, 2.2 grams hashish, and 1.75 grams marijuana. In response, Commissioner Bowie Kuhn suspended him indefinitely. Jenkins missed the rest of the 1980 season, but in an unprecedented action, an independent arbiter reinstated him and he returned to the game, playing until his retirement following the 1983 season. It has been suggested that this incident delayed his induction into the Baseball Hall of Fame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 QUOTE (JoeBatterz @ Mar 22, 2009 -> 08:57 PM) Have the Cubbies retired the jersey of Bruce Sutter who won the Cy Young award in 1979 before leaving for the Cardinals were he too won a World Series? Maybe the Nationals can retire the number of Pedro Martinez since he won the Cy Young award with the Expos before they traded him to the Red Sox. Seems a bit goofy to include Maddux when his greatest success was achieved with another team. Why would you want that reminder? Why honor Baines, Fisk and Minoso then? They had success elsewhere as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I consider Maddux an Atlanta Brave. But I don't care what the Cubs do, just as long as they continue to provide comic relief for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 02:00 AM) Why honor Baines, Fisk and Minoso then? They had success elsewhere as well. Minoso and Baines were undoubtedly better with the Sox and Fisk is arguably with either team. With Maddux, it isn't remotely close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocking Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) There is no doubt that Maddux should have his number retired, but not by the cubs. Look at it this way; if Maddux played those ten season, as he did with the Braves, for the southside would the cubs retire his number. What if those seasons were with the Cards, I dont think there is a chance in hell they would. He had all of five winning seasons with the Cubs. Edited March 23, 2009 by Stocking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthshiner Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Mark Grace deserves it before Maddux. Grace had the more hits in the 90s than anybody. He had a much better career as a cub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 QUOTE (earthshiner @ Mar 22, 2009 -> 10:44 PM) Mark Grace deserves it before Maddux. Grace had the more hits in the 90s than anybody. He had a much better career as a cub He also never had more than 17 homers in a season, which is awful for a 1B. That being said, I don't think the Cubs should honor Maddux either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 The Seaver comparison is ridiculous because he won exactly 100 games less in a Sox uni then Maddux did in a Cubs uni. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 QUOTE (Stocking @ Mar 22, 2009 -> 09:59 PM) There is no doubt that Maddux should have his number retired, but not by the cubs. Look at it this way; if Maddux played those ten season, as he did with the Braves, for the southside would the cubs retire his number. What if those seasons were with the Cards, I dont think there is a chance in hell they would. He had all of five winning seasons with the Cubs. That's ridiculous. If Mark Buerhle blows out his arm this year and wins 10 games, you wouldn't think its justified his 56 be retired if JR chose to do it? What about Harold Baines. His number was retired and he played 10 more years. He had only 2 full seasons with an OBP of .350 or higher at that point with the White Sox and had hit about 200 homers. Any team that wants to retire any number for any reason is justified IMO. The Miami Heat retired 23 in honor of Michael Jordan. He never played for them (but did make them some money). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Baines was still active with another team when his number was retired. I could easily see Buerhle's number being retired, a few more seasons and it will be a no brainer. Are the Cubs still holding Jenkin's cocaine arrest against him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 QUOTE (Texsox @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 07:41 AM) Baines was still active with another team when his number was retired. I could easily see Buerhle's number being retired, a few more seasons and it will be a no brainer. Are the Cubs still holding Jenkin's cocaine arrest against him? They will retire Thomas and Konerko's if he remains here a few more years, in addition to Buehrle's. But I think that's it from this era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 If any pitcher deserves to have his number retired on two teams, this is the spot. Sure, it's PR, but it's not like this is an attendance ploy. Maddux could have 31 retired throughout baseball and I wouldn't mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 08:02 AM) They will retire Thomas and Konerko's if he remains here a few more years, in addition to Buehrle's. But I think that's it from this era. And I think Kong is a marginal at this moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I wouldn't be surprised to see Ozzie's 13 retired as well for his years as a player and manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 QUOTE (Texsox @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 09:45 AM) And I think Kong is a marginal at this moment. Think about this, Konerko has more homers as a White Sox, a higher OBP, a higher slugging pct. than Harold Baines as a White Sox, was an ALCS MVP and a WS hero and he's marginal getting his # retired. Baines even accumulated more stats AFTER his number was retired. There obviously is no criteria for getting the number retired. Its more than just stats. I think coming up through the organization, like Baines did with the Sox and Maddux did with the Cubs should mean something in the decision, even if a lot of career totals were accumulated elsewhere. Its not like Maddux was a Cub for 2 or 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 QUOTE (RibbieRubarb @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 09:56 AM) I wouldn't be surprised to see Ozzie's 13 retired as well for his years as a player and manager. Unless there is a Carlton Fisk type ending between teh Sox and Ozzie, it is a done deal as far as I am concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) Here's another thought, does anyone really question Carlton Fisk having his number retired? His average season in a White Sox uniform: 16 hr 58 rbi .257 avg. .329 obp AJP's average season 15 hr 57 rbi .274 avg. .316 obp Fisk's number absolutely s/b retired,even though he only caught over 100 games in a season 6 times for the White Sox. AJ's will never be. What you do elsewhere matters. I also think it shows AJP is not appreciated enough by a lot of people. Edited March 23, 2009 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 09:18 AM) Here's another thought, does anyone really question Carlton Fisk having his number retired? His average season in a White Sox uniform: 16 hr 58 rbi .257 avg. .329 obp AJP's average season 15 hr 57 rbi .274 avg. .316 obp Fisk's number absolutely s/b retired,even though he only caught over 100 games in a season 6 times for the White Sox. AJ's will never be. What you do elsewhere matters. I also think it shows AJP is not appreciated enough by a lot of people. I'll tell you this much. AJ's appreciated here. He's been a rock for this team. He's a GREAT competitor and a very solid ballplayer. He'll find any way he can to beat you. I hated him as a Twin for same reasons I love him as a Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 10:04 AM) Think about this, Konerko has more homers as a White Sox, a higher OBP, a higher slugging pct. than Harold Baines as a White Sox, was an ALCS MVP and a WS hero and he's marginal getting his # retired. Baines even accumulated more stats AFTER his number was retired. There obviously is no criteria for getting the number retired. Its more than just stats. I think coming up through the organization, like Baines did with the Sox and Maddux did with the Cubs should mean something in the decision, even if a lot of career totals were accumulated elsewhere. Its not like Maddux was a Cub for 2 or 3 years. It's a tough bar to set. The AJP stats were an eye opener. I'm with Yas, SJP has been a rock for this team. Which is why he is probably my favorite position player on the team. Buerhle would be #1 overall. And SS has it right as well, Ozzie, barring something well "oz-like" is a shoe in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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