Melissa1334 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 06:58 PM) Welcome to Soxtalk, How many times do we have to learn the lesson about putting a not so good defensive guy out in CF. Wise was not a good defensive LF, I dont see how that gets better when he moves to CF. He fell apart not when he was put in the 1 hole, its when he was given more playing time. Wise is a 4th OF, and is not a starter. When bench players become starters they sometimes get exposed. Thats what happened to Mr. Wise. As a role player, he is okay. That^^^^. Great post,completley true and exactly what i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Rowland Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 12:34 PM) It's because he had a couple big hits last year and nothing more. The guy is a career .259/.309/.422 hitter throughout his minor league career, which spans 12 seasons, 935 games, and 3,555 AB. To put it in perspective, Joe Borchard was a .275/.351/.481 hitter over 8 minor league seasons covering 664 games and 2,482 AB. Joe Borchard has hit .205/.284/.352 over the course of his MLB career, which is very similar to Wise's .214/.254/.385 MLB career line. In fact, a good debate - if anyone cared enough - would be who would be the better full-time Major League hitter over a full season, Joe Borchard or Dewayne Wise? To put it in perspective, Warren Newson was a career .301/.425/.482 hitter over 13 minor league seasons covering 902 games and 2,912 AB. Warren Newsom's .250/.374/.401 MLB line blows Wise's .214/.254/.385 MLB career line out of the water, and it is even better than Wise's minor league career line. To put it in perspective, Dewayne Wise is 5 seasons away from equaling Ernie Young's minor league career in terms of length (17 seasons, 1712 games, 5,999 AB), and Ernie Young was a better hitter: .279 AVG, .502 SLG (OBP missing from Baseball Cube's site, but from a quick glance he would appear to average out into the .360+ range). Wise is a veteran that brings some things like speed and a little bit of pop to the table when we're talking about well-managed, VERY LIMITED playing time. There is a mountain of evidence that shows he shouldn't even be leading off for the Charlotte Knights, let alone the Chicago White Sox. Off the bench as a pinch hitter and a pinch runner I'm fine with it. Are there better options out there? Yes, but I'd rather see extra money go to the draft and international free agency, not the bench, so I'm happy. That should pretty much end the conversation though. Anderson is not in any way a great hitter, or even a good hitter, but he does play some great defense. While Brian will hurt you at the plate, if he's batting 9th then he'll get the fewest number of AB on any given night. Brian's defense combined with a .220 average will help this team a lot more than even a .300+ hitting s***ty outfielder would, and aside from the "s***ty outfielder" part, that is nothing that either Wise or Owens can accomplish. The only team in baseball that would consider guys like Owens and Wise starting CFers is this one. The only managers in baseball that would consider guys like Owens and Wise starting CFers are Ozzie and Dusty Baker. Anderson should be the everyday guy until he either shows he can hit enough to stick there longterm or someone better is brought in to replace him. He should NEVER lead off however. That's just ridiculously f***ing stupid. Ah luuuuuvvvv it when you analyze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesdiego Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 06:58 PM) Welcome to Soxtalk, How many times do we have to learn the lesson about putting a not so good defensive guy out in CF. Wise was not a good defensive LF, I dont see how that gets better when he moves to CF. He fell apart not when he was put in the 1 hole, its when he was given more playing time. Wise is a 4th OF, and is not a starter. When bench players become starters they sometimes get exposed. Thats what happened to Mr. Wise. As a role player, he is okay. When we moved him to leadoff there was 8 games left. He had the same amount of at bats in those 8 games as the previous 8 games before leading off. So that theory that he fell apart because of more opportunities doesn't work. QUOTE (lostfan @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 07:14 PM) I don't actually hate Wise and I've even said more than once that if he plays his way onto the roster as a bench player then he deserves it, but seriously he's not a good player and should not be starting everyday in CF under any circumstances (and I don't love Anderson either and have said repeatedly that he can't hit, those 2 things don't have to be interchanged but that's where the arguments always go). People are trying to make him into something he's not here, he is a bench player, and should be getting spot starts/pinch hit appearances. If we're going to give a 31 year old minor league journeyman mitigating circumstances such as "making major changes in his swing" then Anderson should get that same excuse since he's been trying to do the same thing. I also don't really buy the "pressures of the leadoff spot" argument (why would it be any different in the 2 hole where similar things are expected of you?) since I fully support Getz doing that unless/until he shows he can't or KW finds a more ideal solution. Well I would look at Swisher, after he got done with leadoff he was a shell of himself with his .210 average. It was his first to time lead off in his career and I think it's safe to say it had a big effect. After the trade Ozzie publicly apologized for putting him in that situation, so he obviously feels the same. With Wise, I believe it was similar. He batted .288 before being moved to leadoff, and .080 after. He put a big donut in Minny 0-12, but It wasn't like anyone else lighting it up in that horrible series. If you take out that weekend that he batted leadoff, he hits .254 for September & .273 for the year. It wasn't terrible as the group think here makes it out to be. And don't forget the .286 in the playoffs. So yea, he's probably a fourth outfielder on most teams, but not this one. And not behind Anderson. In 05 we had a damn efficient offense because there wasn't a major weakness in the lineup. That was when even Uribe was still decent. And we already have Paulie to mope around and feel sorry for himself when he's not hitting on this team. I've noticed that Brian likes to imitate that crap. But hey, if he hits at least .255-.260 with 15-20 hrs, I'd be happy with him. I just don't think he could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (jamesdiego @ Mar 25, 2009 -> 02:55 AM) When we moved him to leadoff there was 8 games left. He had the same amount of at bats in those 8 games as the previous 8 games before leading off. So that theory that he fell apart because of more opportunities doesn't work. Well I would look at Swisher, after he got done with leadoff he was a shell of himself with his .210 average. It was his first to time lead off in his career and I think it's safe to say it had a big effect. After the trade Ozzie publicly apologized for putting him in that situation, so he obviously feels the same. With Wise, I believe it was similar. He batted .288 before being moved to leadoff, and .080 after. He put a big donut in Minny 0-12, but It wasn't like anyone else lighting it up in that horrible series. If you take out that weekend that he batted leadoff, he hits .254 for September & .273 for the year. It wasn't terrible as the group think here makes it out to be. And don't forget the .286 in the playoffs. So yea, he's probably a fourth outfielder on most teams, but not this one. And not behind Anderson. In 05 we had a damn efficient offense because there wasn't a major weakness in the lineup. That was when even Uribe was still decent. And we already have Paulie to mope around and feel sorry for himself when he's not hitting on this team. I've noticed that Brian likes to imitate that crap. But hey, if he hits at least .255-.260 with 15-20 hrs, I'd be happy with him. I just don't think he could. I don't think he's ever going to do that if he's spot-starting. Last year I noticed he was squatting in his batting stance and was getting decent PAs, then as he got less starts, over the season, he gradually reverted to his long swing. He's just going to keep doing that. As for Wise, I would be shocked if he hit over .250 over the course of a season. Edited March 25, 2009 by lostfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Guillen would like to set the roster so he can have the team play together for a week before the season begins. Chris Getz might get a few starts at the leadoff spot in the wake of Dewayne Wise and Jerry Owens' struggles and could pave the way for Brian Anderson to receive more starts in center field. www.chicagosports.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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