Mississippi Bans Red-Light Cameras

[HuskyCaucasian]

From Arstechnica-

Red-light cameras have generated a great deal of controversy over their tendency to turn into profit centers instead of being focused on actually increasing citizen safety. Now the state of Mississippi has banned them altogether. This could be the beginning of a national trend, or the issue could be brought before a judge.

 

They may be advertised as speeding deterrents to city councils and safety tools to worried parents, but according to another school of thought, red-light cameras are all about making money. It's not clear whether the systems are always pitched as profit generators from day one or if the city government, confronted with a sudden jump in ticket revenue, makes its own decision to shorten yellow lights. The correlations, however, are there. There's weak evidence that the red-light cameras reduce accidents at certain intersections (though the severity of those accidents may actually rise), but there's no doubt that they provide a major source of revenue at a time when cities are hurting for funds.

 

Mississippi is bucking this trend on a state level. There are only a handful of cameras actually in use in that state—in the cities of Jackson and Columbus—but it's better to deal with the problem now, before the red-light cameras become entrenched and cities begin relying on them for critical revenue. Jackson and Columbus have until October 1 to uninstall the cameras, and Jackson is already uninstalling their system. Other towns that were in various states of contract negotiations, including McComb, Natchez, Southaven, and Tupelo are apparently reexamining their installation contracts with the camera contractors given the new law.

 

The order to shut the cameras down is still controversial; the Biloxi-Gulfport Sun Herald quotes Natchez Mayor Jake Middleton saying, "We were interested in them for safety. The only person that's going to get in trouble or get a ticket is the person who runs a red light." Unfortunately, Mr. Mayor, that's not true. We've previously covered instances where teens pranked each other by speeding through a known red-light intersection with a printed copy of someone else's license plate inserted over their own (because nothing is funnier than a $200 fine, right?). There's also anecdotal evidence that red-light cameras have been caught ticketing people for turning right on a red light when doing so was both legal and appropriate.

 

Even if the cameras themselves functioned with 100 percent accuracy and saw through all attempts to spoof a license plate, there are still issues surrounding their deployment, including city officials' willingness to short-time yellow lights to catch more drivers, even though doing so actually reduces safety. Red-light camera deployment could also raise some rather nasty ethical questions, depending on what, exactly, they are used for. Last week we discussed Chicago's evaluation of a red-light camera system that would fine drivers for not having insurance.

 

Red-light cameras may sound great on paper, but they're an idea whose time may never come. There's no room in the system for manual inspection (the automation is what keeps it cheap), the officials in charge of the program inevitably come under pressure to milk this marvelous cash cow they've discovered, and the cameras are easily spoofed or sometimes just plain wrong.

[DukeNukeEm]

There are a number of these where it is physically impossible to avoid getting a ticket if you get an unlucky yellow light.

[HuskyCaucasian]

My fear is that they are being used as revenue sources, rather than deterrents. In my area, they seem to be turning up in area that dont have a lot of accidents, but are high traffic areas... interesting.

[lostfan]

There are a number of these where it is physically impossible to avoid getting a ticket if you get an unlucky yellow light.

 

 

My fear is that they are being used as revenue sources, rather than deterrents. In my area, they seem to be turning up in area that dont have a lot of accidents, but are high traffic areas... interesting.

See: Washington, DC

[HuskyCaucasian]

See: Washington, DC

can you elaborate on that referenced? I dont follow.

 

EDIT: Did a google search... never mind...

From the WashPo (2005)-

The District's red-light cameras have generated more than 500,000 violations and $32 million in fines over the past six years. City officials credit them with making busy roads safer.

 

But a Washington Post analysis of crash statistics shows that the number of accidents has gone up at intersections with the cameras. The increase is the same or worse than at traffic signals without the devices.

 

Three outside traffic specialists independently reviewed the data and said they were surprised by the results. Their conclusion: The cameras do not appear to be making any difference in preventing injuries or collisions.

 

"The data are very clear," said Dick Raub, a traffic consultant and a former senior researcher at Northwestern University's Center for Public Safety. "They are not performing any better than intersections without cameras."

Edited March 25, 2009 by Athomeboy_2000

[lostfan]

lol exactly. It's easy revenue for the city. And I copied Duke's post in that because what ends up happening is people speed through yellow lights late because they KNOW they're about to get nailed with a red light camera due to being stuck in the intersection through no fault of their own and they end up getting in accidents. DC's street layout is already horrible enough as it is (imagine the major intersections in Chicago had NO turn arrows anywhere but were still heavy with traffic, and were laid out in an illogical, confusing pattern) without that extra factor in it.

[santo=dorf]

I've heard of people getting ticketed for LEGALLY turning right on a red, and how someone else could be driving the car but the car's registration's holder will be the one to receive the ticket.

 

Get rid of them. I can't imagine what they cost and how many tickets have to be "written" just to pay them back.

[lostfan]

I've heard of people getting ticketed for LEGALLY turning right on a red, and how someone else could be driving the car but the car's registration's holder will be the one to receive the ticket.

 

Get rid of them. I can't imagine what they cost and how many tickets have to be "written" just to pay them back.

Yup. My wife got one in Baltimore, they sent it to me since I'm the co-signer. When you look at the ticket it's TOTALLY obvious she was making a legal right turn, now she has to waste her time going to traffic court so it can be thrown out.

[Flash Tizzle]

I've noticed at some of these intersections the flash bulbs taking photos of cars passing through have the same effect as someone shining halogen lights in your line of sight. It's distracting to be driving at night and all the sudden seeing the light of God flashing before you. You just can't help but look, even if you're expecting it.

 

I know personally whenever I approach an intersection with red-light cameras I either take extra precaution to stop (if possible) or speed even quicker to pass through the intersection. In the past I'd casually pass through while yellow, perhaps even as the red light went on halfway, but always thought if I'm pulled over by a police officer it's for running a red light and not speeding. Now, it's a toss up between receiving a ticket for speeding, or one for running a red led.

 

And everyone who drives knows it's not as easy as "just be careful and don't go through intersections when it's yellow." Some intersections extend far; others have yellow lights which seem to switch quickly to red. Other instances you're traveling more than 40 miles per hour and it's not reasonable to stop in a short distance.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Flash Tizzle

[Rex Kickass]

I got a red light violation for getting caught in an intersection during a light change in New York City.

 

There are no points to the ticket, no proof that I was the driver was necessary to get the ticket...

 

and in New York City, there is no appeal process for the red light ticket.

[StrangeSox]

They also tend to cause more accidents than they prevent. More people slam on their brakes to stop for a yellow and it drastically increases rear-end collisions at an intersection. You need to pay close attention to how they report crash numbers, because they'll often skew the data by only including accidents that happen within the cross-walks as being at the intersection. This eliminates all of those rear-end collisions.

 

It's absolutely a revenue stream in my mind.

 

edit: Forgot about this wonderful aspect. Cities tamper with light timing to shorten yellows and increase tickets. The sooner these are made illegal nation wide, the better off we'll be. http://techdirt.com/articles/20080410/011257809.shtml

Edited March 25, 2009 by StrangeSox

[HuskyCaucasian]

I've heard of people getting ticketed for LEGALLY turning right on a red, and how someone else could be driving the car but the car's registration's holder will be the one to receive the ticket.

I've heard stories from people too. The main story being that they didnt wait one mississippi, two mississisppi before turing right on red and getting ticked for an illegal right turn... even if there was no visible oncoming traffic.

[NorthSideSox72]

I'll be the contrarian here, sort of. I think these cameras are a generally good idea, but, poorly executed. The process to fight a ticket is a huge pain (DC in particular), which is just wrong to me - you make it easier to write tickets, you'd better make it just as easy to contest them. And any sort of manipulation to get more revenue - changing light timing, nicking people who you shouldn't, etc. - is beyond bad, and might be illegal anyway.

 

[Texsox]

I'll be the contrarian here, sort of. I think these cameras are a generally good idea, but, poorly executed. The process to fight a ticket is a huge pain (DC in particular), which is just wrong to me - you make it easier to write tickets, you'd better make it just as easy to contest them. And any sort of manipulation to get more revenue - changing light timing, nicking people who you shouldn't, etc. - is beyond bad, and might be illegal anyway.

 

^^

 

I'd rather fix the system. I do have some privacy concerns, and the tickets should not count against any points on your license, be used to increase insurance rates, etc.

[Stocking]

While in other states the red light camera are working so well that they may turn them off to create more revenue. Im pretty sure this was posted before but

 

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/15/dallas-...since-theyre-w/

 

[santo=dorf]

^^

 

I'd rather fix the system. I do have some privacy concerns, and the tickets should not count against any points on your license, be used to increase insurance rates, etc.

So if a police officer catches you going through a red it shouldn't count for points either? I heard some of these systems are set up to ticket speeders (especially in Arizona) where if your average speed between two camera > than the speed limit, you get a ticket in the mail.