Kalapse Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Mar 26, 2009 -> 11:40 AM) Respectfully disagree. Honestly, how many teams have a true leadoff hitter i.e. high OBP base stealing threats??? Jose Reyes, Sizemore, Victorino, Ichiro, Ellsbury, Figgins, Brian Roberts. Am I missing anyone?? The rest of the league gets by with guys who have some deficiencies in their leadoff capabilities so I'm just not too concerned going into the season with Getz or Ramirez in the 1 spot. Jimmy Rollins, Curtis Granderson, Denard Span, BJ Upton didn't lead off much last year but he's an outstanding top of the lineup hitter, Ian Kinsler ledoff off the Rangers last year, Ichiro Suzuki, Hanley Ramirez has been the leadoff hitter for the Marlins, Gregor Blanco had a .371 OBP in the leadoff spot for the Braves last year now they have Rafael Furcal, hell even Alfonso Soriano managed a .350 OBP and 19 SB last year (plus he knocked himself in nearly 30 times), Skip Schumaker (.370 OBP and good speed in the leadoff spot for the Cardinals), Nate McLouth, Brian Giles (.400 OBP, I'd pay to have him in at the top of our lineup), Matt Kemp, even Stephen Drew managed a .360+ OBP in the leadoff spot, Fred Lewis and Randy Winn are both head and shoulders better than any of our centerfielders. This is just depressing. If the Sox stick with Owens/Wise at the top they'll likely have a bottom 3 leadoff man in baseball this year. Oh, I almost forgot. Derek Jeter and his .387 career OBP will be leading off for the Yankees this year. Johnny Damon and the .375 OBP he put last year has been relegated to the #2 spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I guess need is relative. Does anyone know how our OBP out of the leadoff and 2nd position compared to the rest of the AL last year? I'm sure we were probably in the bottom 3 of AL teams at both those spots. AJ doesn't belong anywhere above 6th in the order, and he's really a 7th or 8th place hitter at this point in his career with the expected downturn quickly approaching. Quentin, Dye and Ramirez exploding last year allowed us to cover up this inadequacy, and maybe Josh Fields becoming a legitimate offensive force will invigorate the line-up, but is there a single team with a demonstrably WORSE situation in CF??? I guess the Astros if they are starting Bourne Supremacy again, and maybe the Reds with Taveras...but you won't get very far naming teams that have a more galling situation to start the season at that position. At least with Carlos Gomez, he has the explosiveness and raw talent and youth on his side, with our three-headed monster, none of those factors can be added into the equation. I bet there there are at least 10-15 AAA teams and 5-10 AA teams with better options than what we have now in CF and at leadoff. By the way, are the Twins going to start Cuddyer and leave Span on the bench? Obviously, Delmon Young, after a winter of trade rumors that Gardy wanted him out of town, didn't end up getting moved... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 26, 2009 -> 12:15 PM) I guess need is relative. Does anyone know how our OBP out of the leadoff and 2nd position compared to the rest of the AL last year? I just had to check. And shockingly the Sox were 3rd to last, thank god for the uber-incompetence of Toronto and Oakland. TEAM OBP1 OBP2 SB1 SB2 OBPa SBa OPS3 RBI3 Baltimore 0.372 0.350 40 4 0.361 22.0 0.862 110 New York 0.364 0.349 38 15 0.357 26.5 0.863 112 Detroit 0.359 0.351 13 8 0.355 10.5 0.766 92 Kansas City 0.358 0.343 20 8 0.351 14.0 0.700 78 Boston 0.322 0.377 49 18 0.350 33.5 0.915 131 Texas 0.357 0.338 27 7 0.348 17.0 0.837 130 Seattle 0.361 0.329 44 11 0.345 27.5 0.822 107 Cleveland 0.372 0.317 39 10 0.345 24.5 0.686 88 Tampa Bay 0.352 0.326 10 41 0.339 25.5 0.851 103 Anaheim 0.364 0.302 39 6 0.333 22.5 0.789 100 Minnesota 0.318 0.335 36 15 0.327 25.5 0.837 89 Chicago 0.339 0.301 15 13 0.320 14.0 0.878 113 Toronto 0.336 0.300 12 5 0.318 8.5 0.782 83 Oakland 0.285 0.306 14 14 0.296 14.0 0.688 69 OBP1 = OBP from #1 hitter OBP2 = OBP from #2 hitter SB1 = SB from #1 hitter SB2 = SB from #2 hitter OBPa = (OBP1+OBP2)/2 SBa = (SB1+SB2)/2 OPS3 = OPS from #3 hitter RBI3 = RBI from #3 hitter Sure OBPa isn't a clean average but there isn't a huge difference in PA between the #1 and #2 hitters and there's no way I'm going to do the leg work required to come up with a clean average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 What really sucks about that is the Sox had the 2nd highest OPS out of the #3 hitter. I also believe the Sox have their leadoff hitter starting at 2B (and I envision him having around a .350 OBP, give or take); the next problem arises from the 2 hole. If Alexei hits there, I hope he could manage a .330 OBP which would be roughly a .340 OBP in front of Q and the others. I also believe they have their CF in Brian Anderson. He could hit 20+ homers and put up a .725+ OPS...with the defense he plays in CF, I'd have no problem with that. So, like I said, they could definitely upgrade, but they don't have needs in either area as of right now - it's more of a desire to upgrade both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 26, 2009 -> 01:30 PM) <!--quoteo(post=1854409:date=Mar 26, 2009 -> 12:15 PM:name=caulfield12)-->QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 26, 2009 -> 12:15 PM) <!--quotec-->I guess need is relative. Does anyone know how our OBP out of the leadoff and 2nd position compared to the rest of the AL last year? I just had to check. And shockingly the Sox were 3rd to last, thank god for the uber-incompetence of Toronto and Oakland. TEAM OBP1 OBP2 SB1 SB2 OBPa SBa OPS3 RBI3 Baltimore 0.372 0.350 40 4 0.361 22.0 0.862 110 New York 0.364 0.349 38 15 0.357 26.5 0.863 112 Detroit 0.359 0.351 13 8 0.355 10.5 0.766 92 Kansas City 0.358 0.343 20 8 0.351 14.0 0.700 78 Boston 0.322 0.377 49 18 0.350 33.5 0.915 131 Texas 0.357 0.338 27 7 0.348 17.0 0.837 130 Seattle 0.361 0.329 44 11 0.345 27.5 0.822 107 Cleveland 0.372 0.317 39 10 0.345 24.5 0.686 88 Tampa Bay 0.352 0.326 10 41 0.339 25.5 0.851 103 Anaheim 0.364 0.302 39 6 0.333 22.5 0.789 100 Minnesota 0.318 0.335 36 15 0.327 25.5 0.837 89 Chicago 0.339 0.301 15 13 0.320 14.0 0.878 113 Toronto 0.336 0.300 12 5 0.318 8.5 0.782 83 Oakland 0.285 0.306 14 14 0.296 14.0 0.688 69 OBP1 = OBP from #1 hitter OBP2 = OBP from #2 hitter SB1 = SB from #1 hitter SB2 = SB from #2 hitter OBPa = (OBP1+OBP2)/2 SBa = (SB1+SB2)/2 OPS3 = OPS from #3 hitter RBI3 = RBI from #3 hitter Sure OBPa isn't a clean average but there isn't a huge difference in PA between the #1 and #2 hitters and there's no way I'm going to do the leg work required to come up with a clean average. The funny thing is, if we had the pitching of either Toronto or Oakland last year, I still think we would have taken the division. It's arguable. I just have this sinking feeling about Linebrink and Dotel both being as effective as last season...maybe even Jenks is due for a bad season by his standards, and the only pitcher I think really capable of being dominating (after Thornton) is MacDougal. Surprisingly, he's quietly pitched himself back into the picture. I guess with Oakland, we could blame the likes of Cunningham, Cabrera, Sweeney and Carter if their offense doesn't produce...so strange to see almost half their line-up (Carter will be there later, along with Aaron) have White Sox connections. If I was a Blue Jays fan, I would be pretty pessimistic about the future in terms of competing again in that division. Wonder if the Rays regret trading Edwin Jackson now? Probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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