What is the main problem with Fields defensively?

[caulfield12]

Farmer and DJ said that Ozzie was talking about this and he had told them Fields could be "great" defensively if he could keep his legs squared with his shoulders...that, basically, his "base" or legs were too wide and it was limiting his range.

 

Of course, one wonders why if Ozzie notices this, and Cora worked with him a little in the offseason...why he's still struggling down there. Of course, if he even hits .300 in the regular season, he would be a huge asset unless he made 35-40 errors defensively, but what are some of the theories?

 

That he's thinking about it too much because he knows everyone is examining his defense with a fine tooth comb?

 

That it's the sun/glare in Arizona (explaining his slow reaction time)???

 

The funny thing is that he has very good (for 3B) speed on the basepaths, or at least above average, but Viciedo and certainly Crede had much faster instincts and better range down there (from when I watched Dayan)...I guess this is kind of like Anderson not being superfast, but being but much quicker to balls in CF than Wise and Anderson. Same idea. Or Jerry Rice never running faster than a 4.6-4.65 forty time, and yet you almost never saw him get caught from behind when he was eyeing a touchdown and had open field.

 

Maybe we'd just be better off with Fields moving to 1B to replace Konerko and Viciedo at 3B eventually.

Edited March 28, 2009 by caulfield12

[chunk23]

Considering his defense, the ideal would be after Konerko is gone, Allen at 1b, Viciedo at 3b, and Fields DH. Or Retherford at 3b and Viciedo at LF.

[caulfield12]

How good is Brandon's defense at 1B?

 

Well, it would be nice to have a left-handed first baseman for a change...I just can't really make much of a comment on his level of defense from a couple of ST games.

 

I guess Fields at DH would make the most sense, but you hate to "stereotype" a player like Fields, Viciedo or Flowers at this point in their careers.

 

Theoretically, you might also see Viciedo in RF, because less balls are hit there, and he would have by far the best arm in the outfield.

 

Don't think we'll ever see CJ Retherford in a White Sox uniform, but stranger things have happened.

[hawkubes]

Considering his defense, the ideal would be after Konerko is gone, Allen at 1b, Viciedo at 3b, and Fields DH. Or Retherford at 3b and Viciedo at LF.

Konerko just turned 33 and is locked up for at least a couple of more seasons. Hopefully Paulie stays with the team for several more seasons at first base and/or DH. Of the guys mentioned above, may the best men win.

 

[Dick Allen]

Farmer and DJ said that Ozzie was talking about this and he had told them Fields could be "great" defensively if he could keep his legs squared with his shoulders...that, basically, his "base" or legs were too wide and it was limiting his range.

 

Of course, one wonders why if Ozzie notices this, and Cora worked with him a little in the offseason...why he's still struggling down there. Of course, if he even hits .300 in the regular season, he would be a huge asset unless he made 35-40 errors defensively, but what are some of the theories?

 

That he's thinking about it too much because he knows everyone is examining his defense with a fine tooth comb?

 

That it's the sun/glare in Arizona (explaining his slow reaction time)???

 

The funny thing is that he has very good (for 3B) speed on the basepaths, or at least above average, but Viciedo and certainly Crede had much faster instincts and better range down there (from when I watched Dayan)...I guess this is kind of like Anderson not being superfast, but being but much quicker to balls in CF than Wise and Anderson. Same idea. Or Jerry Rice never running faster than a 4.6-4.65 forty time, and yet you almost never saw him get caught from behind when he was eyeing a touchdown and had open field.

 

Maybe we'd just be better off with Fields moving to 1B to replace Konerko and Viciedo at 3B eventually.

Just because you know what you're doing wrong in baseball, doesn't mean its easy to correct.

[caulfield12]

Just because you know what you're doing wrong in baseball, doesn't mean its easy to correct.

 

 

Well, yes and no...part of it is natural aptitude...Ventura, when he came up, over time and with lots of hard work, became a great 3B, well-rounded both offensively and defensively.

 

OTOH, you can show Jerry Owens or Taveras video of Ichiro Suzuki or Tony Gwynn/Wade Boggs/Luis Polonia and tell them to slap line drives to the opposite field and/or hit the ball on the ground the other way and it will never take hold...or you can show Ken Griffey Jr. or even Mike Cameron videos to DeWayne Wise and he likeWise won't be capable of replicating it.

 

You have to think that, as was the case with Owens and Borchard and many other former prospects with college football backgrounds...that he simply didn't have the year-round baseball play/experience and he missed out on a lot of coaching and simply made up for it with natural ability and/or simply was that good of an athlete/hitter he could dominate at the collegiate or even minor league level.

[BearSox]

What I've noticed is that he struggles with the transition of the ball from the glove to his right hand.

 

Also, I'd be surprised if Fields is a long term answer at any position, unless he drastically cuts down on his K's and is able to draw more walks. Guys like Ryan Braun can get away with a lot of K's and a low number of walks, but I think we can all agree that Fields is no Braun.

[ILMOU]

Also, I'd be surprised if Fields is a long term answer at any position, unless he drastically cuts down on his K's and is able to draw more walks.

 

 

Well, that's what he's been doing this ST. I'm cautiously optimistic. At least he seems to be addressing the problems.

[scenario]

I think Fields biggest challenge on D at this point is his judgment. (When to step forward or back on balls.) Most of his errors error seem to be situations where he sits back and the ball 'plays him'. As painful as it seems right now, that's not too bad because that's something that should improve with experience.

[Kyyle23]

The main problem for Fields will forever be that he is not Joe Crede. I hope this Crede-Sox divorce period ends after this year, because I am already sick of "Crede would have gotten that"

 

I think I am going to repond to those Crede comments with "Yeah, if he was healthy enough to stay on the field"

Edited March 29, 2009 by kyyle23

[bmags]

I have hope. Aramis ramirez was pretty brutal early on in his career and is now good enough that nobody cares to bring it up. Sometimes players have to develop defensively too.

[SouthsideDon48]

I have hope. Aramis ramirez was pretty brutal early on in his career and is now good enough that nobody cares to bring it up. Sometimes players have to develop defensively too.

 

That's actually a very good comparison. I can actually see Josh Fields being a tick under Aramis Ramirez offensively in a few years, with some stolen bases.

 

 

[Cubano]

One more time. Players do not change too much. You are who you are. I have read several times that Cora was working miracles in Miami with Fields. I never bought into that.

 

If your defense has been shaky all your life, you will be sorry with the glove until you retire. If you are a good fastball hitter in the minors, you will be able to hit fastballs in the majors. If you are lazy in the minors, you will be lazy in the majors. If you have personality problems, you will have those all your life.

 

What makes me mad is the following. If the Sox gurus have doubts about Fields at 3B, then tell him that and move him to another base or DH immediately. Maybe for Viciedo is too early to tell. The Sox do not have had the time to evaluate Viciedo fully. But if there are some doubts about him at 3B, tell him that and move him to another position very soon.

 

Why wasting so much time and resources on failing projects?

[Kyyle23]

One more time. Players do not change too much. You are who you are. I have read several times that Cora was working miracles in Miami with Fields. I never bought into that.

 

If your defense has been shaky all your life, you will be sorry with the glove until you retire. If you are a good fastball hitter in the minors, you will be able to hit fastballs in the majors. If you are lazy in the minors, you will be lazy in the majors. If you have personality problems, you will have those all your life.

 

What makes me mad is the following. If the Sox gurus have doubts about Fields at 3B, then tell him that and move him to another base or DH immediately. Maybe for Viciedo is too early to tell. The Sox do not have had the time to evaluate Viciedo fully. But if there are some doubts about him at 3B, tell him that and move him to another position very soon.

 

Why wasting so much time and resources on failing projects?

 

You are far too biased to be commenting on this.

[Princess Dye]

You are far too biased to be commenting on this.

 

What member of the soxtalk community doesnt have his or her own biases? Just b/c he's Cuban and wants to see his guy get a chance doesnt make him any different from the Josh Fields fan out there.

 

I think Fields is a future LF but I'm definitely willing to go down this road for a year of him at 3b and see what happens. JF is showing his bat needs a place somewhere, just depends where.

 

 

 

 

Also to Cubano i'd just point out that we cant call Fields a failing project if you look at his wild HR per atbat stats from two years ago, and the fact that injuries plagued his 2008

Edited March 29, 2009 by Princess Dye

[Princess Dye]

I have hope. Aramis ramirez was pretty brutal early on in his career and is now good enough that nobody cares to bring it up. Sometimes players have to develop defensively too.

 

Great point.

 

Fields is enticing enough this ST that i'm going to forgive a certain amount of errors early on.

[southsideirish71]

What member of the soxtalk community doesnt have his or her own biases? Just b/c he's Cuban and wants to see his guy get a chance doesnt make him any different from the Josh Fields fan out there.

 

I think Fields is a future LF but I'm definitely willing to go down this road for a year of him at 3b and see what happens. JF is showing his bat needs a place somewhere, just depends where.

 

How about we let Fields give it a go this year, after the work with Cora before we banish him to LF. Sometimes hard work in the field and getting better can happen. Just ask Robin Ventura.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

What member of the soxtalk community doesnt have his or her own biases? Just b/c he's Cuban and wants to see his guy get a chance doesnt make him any different from the Josh Fields fan out there.

 

I think Fields is a future LF but I'm willing to go down this road for a year and see what happens. JF is showing his bat needs a place somewhere, just depends where.

 

Its one thing to want to want your guy to succeed, its another thing to constantly bash the team and the management because your guy hasnt gotten his shot yet. Everytime I read somethign regarding Viciedo or Fields, Cubano wants to talk about his distrust of KW and Ozzie like they are two fools who dont know what they are doing because they dont want to throw a raw 20 year old player to the wolves. I really like Viciedo, you can look at some of the prediction threads and I said I thought he would beat out Fields in ST and be the starter. I dont think Ozzie is an idiot because that didnt happen

 

 

Edited March 29, 2009 by kyyle23

[Cubano]

What member of the soxtalk community doesnt have his or her own biases? Just b/c he's Cuban and wants to see his guy get a chance doesnt make him any different from the Josh Fields fan out there.

 

I think Fields is a future LF but I'm definitely willing to go down this road for a year of him at 3b and see what happens. JF is showing his bat needs a place somewhere, just depends where.

 

 

 

 

Also to Cubano i'd just point out that we cant call Fields a failing project if you look at his wild HR per atbat stats from two years ago, and the fact that injuries plagued his 2008

 

 

Obviously, I am referring about his defense. He won't be the first one that hits but can play a certain position.

Edited March 29, 2009 by Cubano

[Whitewashed in '05]

The main problem for Fields will forever be that he is not Joe Crede. I hope this Crede-Sox divorce period ends after this year, because I am already sick of "Crede would have gotten that"

 

I think I am going to repond to those Crede comments with "Yeah, if he was healthy enough to stay on the field"

 

With how many times I've heard "Crede would've gotten that" you'd think he was the best defender at 3B in history. We will all think Crede could've gotten a ball as soon as Fields can't, that doesn't mean you have to post it every damn time. The worse part about it is people will say that on plays Crede may have not gotten to.

 

I thought it was bad hearing so much about god, I mean Rowand after he left I'm thinking I haven't seen nothing yet...

[Princess Dye]

Obviously, I am referring about his defense. He won'yt be the first one that hits but can play a certain position.

 

I think most people on this board however are pretty certain that LF,1B, DH and RF are locked up for right now. So Fields is probably only viable for those first three positions, plus 3B.

 

It's gotta be his time at this position regardless of defense. Viciedo will have his time but we have to finally figure out what's up with this now 26 yr old kid.

[Princess Dye]

With how many times I've heard "Crede would've gotten that" you'd think he was the best defender at 3B in history. We will all think Crede could've gotten a ball as soon as Fields can't, that doesn't mean you have to post it every damn time. The worse part about it is people will say that on plays Crede may have not gotten to.

 

I thought it was bad hearing so much about god, I mean Rowand after he left I'm thinking I haven't seen nothing yet...

 

I'm not the biggest Crede guy, but we're pretty naive if we think we're gonna just put Josh in there and never talk about the guy he's replaced.

 

This is the big leagues. Management will be judged on what moves they have made. One move they made is choosing Fields over Crede. You can talk about Boras all you want but end of the day the Sox decided to go young at a position where they had a nice prospect.

 

I dont fault them at all for that. At the same time, I know it's open game to say "Crede couldve gotten that" because he COULDVE been the 3b.

 

You root for the uniform but you dont do so SOOOO blindly that you never question management's decisions. Otherwise then you are a northside baseball fan.

 

 

 

 

This is coming from someone who felt it was Crede's time to go. We rebuild quicker if we have young guys on contract that are producing. But I dont fault people for referring back to Crede because of Josh is a disaster at 3B, it's natural to make that comparison with a guy who was just recently great at it.

Edited March 29, 2009 by Princess Dye

[Kyyle23]

I'm not the biggest Crede guy, but we're pretty naive if we think we're gonna just put Josh in there and never talk about the guy he's replaced.

 

This is the big leagues. Management will be judged on what moves they have made. One move they made is choosing Fields over Crede. You can talk about Boras all you want but end of the day the Sox decided to go young at a position where they had a nice prospect.

 

I dont fault them at all for that. At the same time, I know it's open game to say "Crede couldve gotten that" because he COULDVE been the 3b.

 

You root for the uniform but you dont do so SOOOO blindly that you never question management's decisions. Otherwise then you are a northside baseball fan.

 

Saying "Crede would have gotten that" is not the same as questioning managements decisions, it is arbitrarily saying that another player would have fielded a ball given the same circumstances. That is not anything that could be determined, its just an opinion, and an entire year of that will be quite annoying.

 

Crede was a pretty damn good 3B, but if I recall correctly he didnt exactly set the world on fire last season, in fact didnt he lead the league in 3B errors at one point? All i know is that Crede was having a lot of trouble throwing across his body to second base and he ended up with 20 errors in 97 games.

 

 

[Cubano]

You are far too biased to be commenting on this.

 

 

Oh, common kyyle23. There is no secret I root for cuban players. I was born there. You guys have a 1000 players and there are a handfull of cubans in the USA (majors and minors). That does not mean I do not like other players. I have always admired Thome and Griffey since their days in Cleveland and Seattle when I first saw an MLB game in the refugee camps. Viciedo was not competing against an established 3B. If Viciedo would had made the team, that means better opportunities for future defectors. If there is a set of players that have the hardest road to the majors or USA, that is us cubans. Some is our own shortcomings because we have not been able to remove Castro. But there are other aspects of this complex situation that MLB is responsible too.

 

Am I writing something out of the extraordinary here? Most of you think Fields is not good defensively. I am not making this up.

 

Fields won't the job. He hit 400 +. I would have loved to see Viciedo still competing but he was sent down. I also wrote that Fields should have given priority over Viciedo because he was promised he would be this year 3B. I also wrote I like to see Viciedo playing back up in different positions. Maybe you did not read my post about this.

 

This is a free forum and this is America. What happened to free speech!

 

By the way, I am sure you were rooting for Japan to beat USA in the WBC. I root for Cuba first and then USA unless my child is with me watching. If that the case, I root for USA no matter what.

 

No hard feelings whatsoever.

 

 

[southsideirish71]

I'm not the biggest Crede guy, but we're pretty naive if we think we're gonna just put Josh in there and never talk about the guy he's replaced.

 

This is the big leagues. Management will be judged on what moves they have made. One move they made is choosing Fields over Crede. You can talk about Boras all you want but end of the day the Sox decided to go young at a position where they had a nice prospect.

 

I dont fault them at all for that. At the same time, I know it's open game to say "Crede couldve gotten that" because he COULDVE been the 3b.

 

You root for the uniform but you dont do so SOOOO blindly that you never question management's decisions. Otherwise then you are a northside baseball fan.

 

Talking about a guy who can't stay healthy is nuts. He can't stay healthy. This is like Cub fans pining for Prior because of 2003. Sure if Joe was healthy then he would be on this team. But he can't stay healthy. So whats better, signing a guy and praying he can stay healthy at 3rd base. Then watch him sail throws over the 1st baseman's head like last year because his back is hurting. Uribe out produced Crede last year and played better D. Think about that for a second. Thanks for 2005 Joe, its time to move on. We start with Josh Fields and give him some time. If it doesnt work out, we move on to the next guy.