What is the main problem with Fields defensively?

[BobDylan]

If we judge Viciedo 231 average as not being ready, then we should do the same with any player in disregard of any position. I understand the reasoning about giving a player (Viciedo) a chance to play everyday in the minors as oppose as sitting in the bench. I preferred him to back up at 3B, RF and DH in the majors 3 times a week as oppose as being in the minors. I am sure I am in the minority with this view.

 

Good lord, my friend. Good lord.

[BobDylan]

I don't think we can rule out RF.

 

His limited mobility won't affect him as much because not as many balls are hit in that direction (compared to LF) and he has the best arm of anyone in our system in terms of tools.

 

Perhaps this is the assumption because of moving Quentin over from LF, but if Carlos continues to progress in left and Viciedo gets some PT in RF in the regular season and winter ball/AFL, there's no reason to discount the possibility.

 

That's the wrong way to look at it, if you ask me, because, well, what about the balls that do get hit there?

[Dick Allen]

If we judge Viciedo 231 average as not being ready, then we should do the same with any player in disregard of any position. I understand the reasoning about giving a player (Viciedo) a chance to play everyday in the minors as oppose as sitting in the bench. I preferred him to back up at 3B, RF and DH in the majors 3 times a week as oppose as being in the minors. I am sure I am in the minority with this view.

You judged Betemit on 2 plays the first week of spring training, saying he should be sent to minor league camp. You're not the guy to be beating this drum. Viciedo kicked a couple of balls at 3rd base too, the Sox are doing what you suggested they do to the veteran. Remember, you said if he couldn't make the plays in March, he wouldn't be able to during the regular season? So shouldn't you use the same criteria whether the player is Cuban or not?

 

As a non-fan of Josh Fields, I'm certainly not going to sugarcoat his pluses. But as bad as he is defensively(I've seen much worse, but he's definitely not good), and I don't think 2 weekends having Joey Cora hit him grounders means didley, I think he is more advanced at that position defensively than Viciedo. Viciedo will be up soon enough, but he needs at bats and playing time. Sitting on the bench will do him no good. If he's too sensitive he needs a couple of Cubans around him at all times to thrive, or if he thinks at the age of 20 he has it all figured out and there is nothing to learn in the minor leagues, he's not going to be successful anyway. Spending some time in AA and/or AAA is the right move. If he's ready for the major leagues, he will show it. If he's not, he won't be seen until spring training 2010.

Edited March 29, 2009 by Dick Allen

[Cubano]

You judged Betemit on 2 plays the first week of spring training, saying he should be sent to minor league camp. You're not the guy to be beating this drum. Viciedo kicked a couple of balls at 3rd base too, the Sox are doing what you suggested they do to the veteran. Remember, you said if he couldn't make the plays in March, he wouldn't be able to during the regular season? So shouldn't you use the same criteria whether the player is Cuban or not?

 

As a non-fan of Josh Fields, I'm certainly not going to sugarcoat his pluses. But as bad as he is defensively(I've seen much worse, but he's definitely not good), and I don't think 2 weekends having Joey Cora hit him grounders means didley, I think he is more advanced at that position defensively than Viciedo. Viciedo will be up soon enough, but he needs at bats and playing time. Sitting on the bench will do him no good. If he's too sensitive he needs a couple of Cubans around him at all times to thrive, or if he thinks at the age of 20 he has it all figured out and there is nothing to learn in the minor leagues, he's not going to be successful anyway. Spending some time in AA and/or AAA is the right move. If he's ready for the major leagues, he will show it. If he's not, he won't be seen until spring training 2010.

 

 

When Viciedo kicked or butted or ate those two balls, many in here jumped into the conclusion he was terrible or he needed to work on his D. Ozzie was the first one taliking BS after seeing Viciedo play for only two days. Then, I wrote. If we are going to judge Viciedo like that, then lets judge everybody in camp with the same magnifying glass. It happened that Betemit looked terrible short after. I was just picking on him to make my point. It could have been other player too.

 

By the way, there is no garantee Viciedo will rock in AAA or AA. I assume he will do. He may be a bomb too. It was nice to see him playing better defense according to some of you because I did not see it later in ST. It was nice to see him hitting against MLB pitchers with certain degree of authority. I do not think two weeks were enough for him. I would have love seeing him more agaisnt MLB pitchers to see how he fared as he grew more confident in ST. Who knows?

 

Viciedo just came to the WS. Therefore, he has to wait in line until his name is called. I wished he had made the team. That is my personal opinion.

 

 

[Cubano]

Suppose Cuban league is about AA. Viciedo was a regular there.

It is a fact, many Cuban defectors from this decade have produced at the lower level A, AA and AAA. I am just concerned about sending him to about the same level of baseball he came from.

 

I don't know...

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Joe Crede was not a GG caliber defender on Day 1 in the majors. He improved a lot his first couple years.

 

Robin Ventura struggled quite a bit his first year, before going on to be an elite defender at the position.

 

Josh Fields is a superb overall athlete who has already made strides at 3B, and there is every reason to think he'd continue to improve. Making the leap to the majors at 3B is a big one, and LOTS of major league thirdbasemen have struggled at first, and then improved. The majority, even.

 

The idea that players don't improve defensively, particularly at 3B, is just not in the ballpark of correct.

 

[Cubano]

How about the ones that never improved?

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Suppose Cuban league is about AA. Viciedo was a regular there.

It is a fact, many Cuban defectors from this decade have produced at the lower level A, AA and AAA. I am just concerned about sending him to about the same level of baseball he came from.

 

I don't know...

 

Why? If he dominates, he'll get moved up quickly. He should be able to handle it.

[NorthSideSox72]

How about the ones that never improved?

How about them?

 

You said that if you're bad defensively, you are just bad, and will be bad going forward. I showed you two very good defensive 3B's from this very team, in recent years, who defied your statement quite directly. Other posters brought up yet others, again, proving your point incorrect.

 

You were the one who made a blanket statement, not me.

 

[ILMOU]

i'm fine with 2year if it's cheap as all get out

 

We'll see how Allen and Viciedo are doing in the minors. If they're looking like monsters, no way do you extend Paulie in this economy.

[ILMOU]

When Viciedo kicked or butted or ate those two balls, many in here jumped into the conclusion he was terrible or he needed to work on his D. Ozzie was the first one taliking BS after seeing Viciedo play for only two days. Then, I wrote. If we are going to judge Viciedo like that, then lets judge everybody in camp with the same magnifying glass. It happened that Betemit looked terrible short after. I was just picking on him to make my point. It could have been other player too.

 

By the way, there is no garantee Viciedo will rock in AAA or AA. I assume he will do. He may be a bomb too. It was nice to see him playing better defense according to some of you because I did not see it later in ST. It was nice to see him hitting against MLB pitchers with certain degree of authority. I do not think two weeks were enough for him. I would have love seeing him more agaisnt MLB pitchers to see how he fared as he grew more confident in ST. Who knows?

 

Viciedo just came to the WS. Therefore, he has to wait in line until his name is called. I wished he had made the team. That is my personal opinion.

 

Overall, I thought the Tank showed good instincts in the field, and could be good at 3B - especially if he avoids the Moon Pies in 'Bama and sheds a few pounds.

 

Like you, Cubano, I just can't wait to see the kid reaching the Concourse at the Cell. I'm going to have to restrain myself.

 

Remember, I'm the idiot who's predicting he'll be the Sox' first 50 home run player.

 

[caulfield12]

Miguel Cabrera, Carlos Lee and Paul Konerko might all be examples for failed 3B who were converted....from what I saw of Viciedo this spring, he was 50X better than any of those 3.

 

Fields, someone mentioned earlier, it's also a problem of letting balls play him (like Betemit in ST), backing up instead of charging, getting the wrong bounces...just instincts, which is partly innate and partly learned...not sure if it's 50/50 with experience/practice and God-given ability.

[WCSox]

i'm fine with 2year if it's cheap as all get out

 

Well, that's part of the problem. I don't think that Kenny could low-ball Paulie, after all that he's done for this organization. Unless he continues to decline this year, in which case you don't want to re-sign him anyway.

[scenario]

Suppose Cuban league is about AA. Viciedo was a regular there.

It is a fact, many Cuban defectors from this decade have produced at the lower level A, AA and AAA. I am just concerned about sending him to about the same level of baseball he came from.

 

I don't know...

 

Keep in mind he wasn't really dominating in Cuba. (An average of 11 homeruns and 41 RBIs per year over 3 seasons (233 games) doesn't suggest he's ready to start in MLB right now, does it?) So what's the rush??

 

At Birmingham, he's going to face very good pitching talent. (We're in the same division with the Braves, Rays, DBacks, and Marlins AA-teams.)

 

And Viciedo, at 20 years old, will be one of the youngest players in the entire league... if not THE youngest. Most prospects in that league will be 3 years older than him.

 

If he succeeds there, promote him. If he does it in a big way... promote him quickly.

 

A much better strategy IMO than throwing him to the wolves and screwing up him confidence by starting him at a level he's not ready for.

Edited March 30, 2009 by scenario

[WCSox]

Joe Crede was not a GG caliber defender on Day 1 in the majors. He improved a lot his first couple years.

 

Robin Ventura struggled quite a bit his first year, before going on to be an elite defender at the position.

 

Josh Fields is a superb overall athlete who has already made strides at 3B, and there is every reason to think he'd continue to improve. Making the leap to the majors at 3B is a big one, and LOTS of major league thirdbasemen have struggled at first, and then improved. The majority, even.

 

The idea that players don't improve defensively, particularly at 3B, is just not in the ballpark of correct.

 

And Carlos Lee wasn't a very good 3B either. But found a home in LF.

 

If Fields develops as a hitter, he'll have place on this team. Especially with all of the aging, low-defense-skilled position players coming off of the books soon.

 

[4 points]

 

Field`s problem defensively is that " He moves like Pond Water".