BEARS GET CUTLER!!!

[T R U]

The Bears might have also turned Bennett into a potential first round pick with the acquisition. I realize he was a 3rd round pick, but all of a sudden he becomes a better WR (we'll have to see if it happens, but I think it will, plus Bennett has a lot of talent and was someone most draft experts raved about as being a guy with a lot of upside last year when the Bears drafted him). Greg Olsen might just make the leap to being an elite TE. Forte could prove to be an elite RB because of this (maybe not as explosive as Faulk or Tomilson, but in a similar range with an ability to get 1000 rushing and 1000 receiving yards). Hester might be able to make the jump from being a 750 yard WR to a 1000 yard WR with a QB who can make him better and best yet, good QB's can make good WR's great. It doesn't work the other way around, imo. I think great WR's can make a serviceable QB solid, but not a good QB great or elite.

 

Plus the Bears now have a whole different image, expectation, and ora and there should be something said about that. In general, I think the Bears just found the solution to there WR problem and it involved getting a QB with the chance to be elite (and compare his numbers to all the greats and they are on par thus far) as he makes every WR on the roster better and will make it much easier for the Bears to develop or sign WR's (you don't think that the Bears didn't become an attractive place for any WR thats a FA, think again, cause if I'm a good WR, one of the first things I look at aside from money is whose throwing me the ball, and Cutler did a great f***ing job getting two above average WR's numbers).

 

Oh and if the Bears get Plaxico, Jones or Holt, I'll go as far as saying that the Bears are legit superbowl contenders and that will be the first time I've said that in some time. Scoop Jackson said it best regarding this trade, basically indicated how important it is to the franchise and that it puts them as immediate favorites in the division but they still are a few holes short of being superbowl contenders but those holes can be addressed now or in a few years as the whole landscape of the franchise has been changed.

 

You're right Cutler does make other people better with his presence, but do you think the Bears are going to change their offense now and throw the ball over 600 times a season?

 

They still need to help out the offensive line, which they are trying to do with adding Pace. How about the defense though? They have gotten progressively worse, that's another thing they need to address. Bennett could very well become better with Cutler at QB now, but I don't think adding Cutler changes his talent level. Do you think that now because Cutler is here he is all of the sudden going to get it? Maybe, well see how that plays out.

 

They need to fill some more holes before they become super bowl contenders, but they have a nice start so far.

[Soxbadger]

Tru,

 

If Denver "easily won this trade" there should be no possible set of circumstances where they can lose.

 

Now you are saying that there is in fact a possibility that the Bears get the better of the deal, to me that is the exact opposite of "easily winning the deal."

 

Its your opinion that right now the Broncos won the deal because you feel that Cutler is not worth 2 firsts and a third.

 

Its my opinion that right now the Broncos lost the deal because other lesser Qb's have been traded for more (Eli was worth 2 firsts (one being a top 5) and a 3rd.

 

You keep talking about how valuable first rounders are, but when there are facts suggesting that the price paid in terms of draft picks is less than Eli, you say "Well Cutler is a proven player" as if that makes Cutler less valuable?

 

Imo, a 26 year old proven QB is worth much more than a rookie QB. Which even further suggests that the Broncos took less than market value.

 

What is market value?

 

Imo its based on what other potential franchise QB's have been traded for, in each of those cases it was 1 top 5 first and a second first. The Bears did not give up a top 5 pick, thus in comparison to other trades the Broncos should have at least gotten the Bears 1st, 2nd and 3rd this year (the Bears 1st and 2nd being comparable to a top 5 pick) and next years 1st.

 

That is why I think the Bears won, because they got Cutler for less than what the Giants gave up for Manning.

 

Id rather have Cutler over Manning. Manning has only 1 time put up a qb rating over 85.

 

Thus why I dont see how its possible to say that the Bears lost, unless you are just giving your opinion (which is fine). But all evidence suggests the Bears underpaid.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Soxbadger

[RockRaines]

The Bears mortgaged their future for a guy who is 17-20 as a starter and has never had a winning season. If you guys wanna keep ignoring what I have been saying about this I can easily turn this into a why this was a terrible deal for the Bears and how they are now f***ed.

This is all I want to see please.

 

And also how having a franchise QB signed for the next several years and only giving up 2 draft picks is mortgaging their future, I dont quite understand that at all.

[Chisoxfn]

I think the Bears OL is significantly upgraded from last year already, especially if they're creative and wind up trying Pace out at RT

Plus Cutler is more mobile and gets rid of the ball quicker than Kyle so that too could help improve the pass rush.

[Harry Chappas]

What is the deal with Marvin Harrison?

[Chisoxfn]

What are we arguing? You said you wanted people to pay attention to you or you would show how the Bears are totally f***ed. I'm just waiting to see that threat come to life. So far you said Cutlers a crybaby, its windy in Chicago, we dont have Brandon Marshall, and Daniels 2 years in NE proves he will turn anyone into Tom Brady. I still dont see how the Bears have f***ed themselves in that scenario.

 

Cutler's Qb rating is 7 points higher than the GREATEST season a Bears QB has had since that stat was in place. I want to see this flip side argument that you keep threatening to bring up. Thats all. Call it Bears fan enlightenment.

For those saying Cutler's a crybaby lets just say this.

 

Cutler is the face of the Broncos and his head coach is fired. Cutler is upset but stays quiet. Broncos do tell Jay that the OC will stay there, but than he gets fired. Cutler continues to stay quiet. The Broncos than hire a young coach whose going to bring in a whole new system, Cutler again stays quiet. Than the Broncos try to trade him behind his back and Cutler gets pissed. Pretty freaking understandable, especially after hearing McDaniels talk. I hope he falls flat on his face.

[nitetrain8601]

I'd say factoring everything, both teams got what they wanted and needed, therefore both win. The Bears finally get stability at the QB position and someone who they know could make all the throws they need to make.

 

Broncos got a nice amount of picks to make a quick improvement on defense overnight.

 

Now a lot depends on how those teams work around what they just acquired. If the Bears still have crap WR's, it's going to hurt Cutler more than help. If JM sucks balls at identifying guys, it'll set their team far far back.

[T R U]

What are we arguing? You said you wanted people to pay attention to you or you would show how the Bears are totally f***ed. I'm just waiting to see that threat come to life. So far you said Cutlers a crybaby, its windy in Chicago, we dont have Brandon Marshall, and Daniels 2 years in NE proves he will turn anyone into Tom Brady. I still dont see how the Bears have f***ed themselves in that scenario.

 

Cutler's Qb rating is 7 points higher than the GREATEST season a Bears QB has had since that stat was in place. I want to see this flip side argument that you keep threatening to bring up. Thats all. Call it Bears fan enlightenment.

 

I said the Bears needed Cutler and it was something they had to do, and yet most of the response here seemed like I was saying the Bears got raped and Denver made off like bandits which wasn't the case at all.

 

You asked how the Bears could be f***ed, I presented you with numerous examples of how that could happen. So how about you chill the f*** out and stop claiming I am threatening the board or some s***. You obviously didn't understand it, what I said was instead of saying both teams won here, but I like Denver returns better I could have easily just laughed at the Bears for giving up what they did and said there was no way Cutler would have the same success he did in Denver. Thats what people were making it look like I was doing, which I wasn't trying to.

[Chisoxfn]

You're right Cutler does make other people better with his presence, but do you think the Bears are going to change their offense now and throw the ball over 600 times a season?

 

They still need to help out the offensive line, which they are trying to do with adding Pace. How about the defense though? They have gotten progressively worse, that's another thing they need to address. Bennett could very well become better with Cutler at QB now, but I don't think adding Cutler changes his talent level. Do you think that now because Cutler is here he is all of the sudden going to get it? Maybe, well see how that plays out.

 

They need to fill some more holes before they become super bowl contenders, but they have a nice start so far.

Look at teams with great QB's and you'll see that in general they are able to turn out more good WR's as a whole. The Colts with Peyton, Denver with Elway, Packers with Favre, etc. The Bears offense will adjust, look at Turners history with a good QB (Kramer was the closet to good and he had Conway and Graham being the only duo in Bears history to have 1000 yard seasons in the same year). This guy is a perfect fit for Turners system, imo. Will the Bears throw 40 times a game, hell no, they have a great RB too, and the duo should work phenomenally over the next few years. This is a tremendous deal for the Bears and as far as the Broncos are concerned they f***ed up to piss off Cutler, but I fully believe they got fair value.

 

Both teams won, but I give Chicago a bigger win given the overall need and the intangibles of the trade (ie, the statement made and the state of the franchise) and the overall fact that the Broncos as a whole were stupid to piss of a potential elite QB. Cutler could end up failing miserably and I'd still say it was a brilliant deal for the Bears given the circumstances. Clearly I hope he goes on to win a number of superbowls and I think he might do exactly that in time.

[Chisoxfn]

What is the deal with Marvin Harrison?

Most experts think he's lost too much to be able to get open consistently in the NFL.

[lostfan]

I haven't backtracked at all, I still feel Denver won the trade. That doesn't change the fact that the picks they select can bust out while Cutler succeeds in Chicago. I don't think that is going to happen, but for argument sake I had to present that side of it so people don't think im just trying to hate on this deal.

 

Matt Cassel hadn't started a game since high school and looked like a star in McDaniels system. And I don't want to hear about Randy Moss because he didn't even have that great of a year anyways. I agree with you that the jury is still out on him, but you cant ignore the fact that his system so far has given results.

Well he also had a downgraded QB throwing to him.

[T R U]

This is all I want to see please.

 

I said I thought both teams won, I liked Denvers return better though. Both teams got what they wanted out of it.

 

Most of the response has made it seem like I am against what the Bears have done and I think Denver fleeced them. Which I don't.

 

What I meant by that is, if that's how you want to view this then I will be more than happy to just bash on the Bears and Cutler if no one is going to look at it both ways. Its not a threat, but why would I continue to say I liked both ends of the deal if I am being made to look like I am some huge Denver/McDaniels supporter?

 

Do you understand what I am saying here now.

[Chisoxfn]

Sal Pal said that the Broncos had 4 to 5 teams who made serious offers. He also said that if there was anything the Bears were most concerned with in regards to Cutler were alcohol problems and immaturity and they discussed these things with Hillmeyer, Bennett, Williams. The other thing they were concerned with were in regards to how he could deal with immense expectations.

 

 

[T R U]

Well he also had a downgraded QB throwing to him.

 

It didn't seem to hurt Wes Welkers performance.

[Harry Chappas]

You're right Cutler does make other people better with his presence, but do you think the Bears are going to change their offense now and throw the ball over 600 times a season?

 

They still need to help out the offensive line, which they are trying to do with adding Pace. How about the defense though? They have gotten progressively worse, that's another thing they need to address. Bennett could very well become better with Cutler at QB now, but I don't think adding Cutler changes his talent level. Do you think that now because Cutler is here he is all of the sudden going to get it? Maybe, well see how that plays out.

 

They need to fill some more holes before they become super bowl contenders, but they have a nice start so far.

 

Maranelli and Lovie make the defense better or Mike Shanahan is the coach in 2010

[Chisoxfn]

I said I thought both teams won, I liked Denvers return better though. Both teams got what they wanted out of it.

 

Most of the response has made it seem like I am against what the Bears have done and I think Denver fleeced them. Which I don't.

 

What I meant by that is, if that's how you want to view this then I will be more than happy to just bash on the Bears and Cutler if no one is going to look at it both ways. Its not a threat, but why would I continue to say I liked both ends of the deal if I am being made to look like I am some huge Denver/McDaniels supporter?

 

Do you understand what I am saying here now.

I understand you and I think as a whole we both see things pretty similarly. I lean to the Bears if anyone being the winner but I like the deal from both perspectives aside from the fact that I think the Broncos made a mistake in putting themselves into the position where they had to trade Cutler because they were a good RB away from having an elite offense.

[Chisoxfn]

Maranelli and Lovie make the defense better or Mike Shanahan is the coach in 2010

Definately.

[lostfan]

It didn't seem to hurt Wes Welkers performance.

He's a completely different type of WR. This is borderline off-topic, but IMO Welker is one of the main reasons both Brady and Cassel had so much success, but he doesn't get enough credit. You can't rush through that line, cover Moss, and account for Welker all at the same time.

[scenario]

For those saying Cutler's a crybaby lets just say this.

 

Cutler is the face of the Broncos and his head coach is fired. Cutler is upset but stays quiet. Broncos do tell Jay that the OC will stay there, but than he gets fired. Cutler continues to stay quiet. The Broncos than hire a young coach whose going to bring in a whole new system, Cutler again stays quiet. Than the Broncos try to trade him behind his back and Cutler gets pissed. Pretty freaking understandable, especially after hearing McDaniels talk. I hope he falls flat on his face.

 

There was an article in the Denver Post suggesting that Pat Bowlen created this train wreck by hiring an inexperienced coach without having a GM in place. I tend to agree. Tough lesson for them to learn. But, good news for us.

 

[T R U]

Look at teams with great QB's and you'll see that in general they are able to turn out more good WR's as a whole. The Colts with Peyton, Denver with Elway, Packers with Favre, etc. The Bears offense will adjust, look at Turners history with a good QB (Kramer was the closet to good and he had Conway and Graham being the only duo in Bears history to have 1000 yard seasons in the same year). This guy is a perfect fit for Turners system, imo. Will the Bears throw 40 times a game, hell no, they have a great RB too, and the duo should work phenomenally over the next few years. This is a tremendous deal for the Bears and as far as the Broncos are concerned they f***ed up to piss off Cutler, but I fully believe they got fair value.

 

Both teams won, but I give Chicago a bigger win given the overall need and the intangibles of the trade (ie, the statement made and the state of the franchise) and the overall fact that the Broncos as a whole were stupid to piss of a potential elite QB. Cutler could end up failing miserably and I'd still say it was a brilliant deal for the Bears given the circumstances. Clearly I hope he goes on to win a number of superbowls and I think he might do exactly that in time.

 

Yes, a good QB makes all the difference in the world. Chad Pennington threw for 3,653 yards (Career High) with Ted Ginn Jr, Greg Camarillo, and Davone Bess. There is no doubt that Cutler is going to improve other players performance with his mere presence under center.

[Soxbadger]

True,

 

I think Denver fleeced them

 

You said Denver won easily, which means that the Bears got fleeced.

 

Other people have said the Bears got ripped off, etc.

 

How else should this be interpreted?

 

If your stance is that this trade may work out it may not, then I bet most people would agree. That's the nature of trading/

[Chisoxfn]

There was an article in the Denver Post suggesting that Pat Bowlen created this train wreck by hiring an inexperienced coach without having a GM in place. I tend to agree. Tough lesson for them to learn. But, good news for us.

I've read quite a few things saying that Bowlen has been trying to spin spin spin his mistake because things just weren't handled right all the way around. Cutler obvioulsy could have done things better, but if you look at any great player traded in or near his prime, its because they were mad, thats why they get dealt. We took advantage of the situation and I don't believe Cutler has a history of being a crybaby. In fact, he's firey vocal guy that talks s*** on the field and backs it up and I think Bears fans will fall in love with him.

[Harry Chappas]

Yes, a good QB makes all the difference in the world. Chad Pennington threw for 3,653 yards (Career High) with Ted Ginn Jr, Greg Camarillo, and Davone Bess. There is no doubt that Cutler is going to improve other players performance with his mere presence under center.

 

A center that will beat his ass if need be, just ask Fred Miller.

 

 

[DBAHO]

Your not crazy, your f***ing crazy.

Orton put up a 79.6 QB rating last season with a worse O-Line and worst WR's to throw to.

 

Is it crazy to expect he'll improve that number, and Cutler's will go down slightly?

[nitetrain8601]

I think people aren't realizing how far Lovie actually is from the hot seat. Him and Jerry have a good relationship and Jerry puts a lot of the blame on himself last year. They probably have one of the best GM/Coach relationships in the league. You won't see Lovie fired next year unless they finish with less than 5 wins. If not, he's not going to be fired for at least 2 years.