lostfan Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 TRU, for the record, I get what you're saying about the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 03:11 PM) True, You said Denver won easily, which means that the Bears got fleeced. Other people have said the Bears got ripped off, etc. How else should this be interpreted? If your stance is that this trade may work out it may not, then I bet most people would agree. That's the nature of trading/ Yes, I do think Denver won easily. That doesn't mean I think the Bears are losers here. Other people have said the Bears got ripped here, I never said that. I have said nothing but good things about the Bears getting Cutler. I just think that having two extra first round draft picks, the extra third, and a capable QB to fill in for the time being is going to be a great return in a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 04:11 PM) True, You said Denver won easily, which means that the Bears got fleeced. Other people have said the Bears got ripped off, etc. How else should this be interpreted? If your stance is that this trade may work out it may not, then I bet most people would agree. That's the nature of trading/ I suggest ignoring anyone who says that the Bears got fleeced and they easily lost this trade. We won't know the answer to that for 5 years, as 3 of the four pieces the Broncos acquired have no name yet. If in 5 years they've used their own pick plus ours to get Mark Sanchez and he somehow becomes a God, it still won't be fair to compare. The Bears left themselves a first rounder short this year. They still have picks in the rest of the rounds, including two in the 5th. In the scheme of NFL value for the Draft, the Bears have exchanged their first rounder for Jay Cutler, and have a comparable draft the rest of the way to anyone else. It's flawless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (DBAHO @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 05:14 PM) Orton put up a 79.6 QB rating last season with a worse O-Line and worst WR's to throw to. Is it crazy to expect he'll improve that number, and Cutler's will go down slightly? yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (rangercal @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 05:16 PM) yes Explain to me how then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 05:16 PM) I suggest ignoring anyone who says that the Bears got fleeced and they easily lost this trade. We won't know the answer to that for 5 years, as 3 of the four pieces the Broncos acquired have no name yet. If in 5 years they've used their own pick plus ours to get Mark Sanchez and he somehow becomes a God, it still won't be fair to compare. The Bears left themselves a first rounder short this year. They still have picks in the rest of the rounds, including two in the 5th. In the scheme of NFL value for the Draft, the Bears have exchanged their first rounder for Jay Cutler, and have a comparable draft the rest of the way to anyone else. It's flawless. I'm Sold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 (edited) This morning on the radio the old G.M. from Denver (Ted Sunquist?) was explaining that the Broncos did not even return phone calls to at least 5 teams, one being the Jets and that the thought was that Denver could have gotten more. McDaniels liked Orton over Campbell............. Also the Bears pro personnel guy did all of the leg work on this and had been in contact with Denver since day one and used his connections to seal the deal, I forget his name, before other teams even sent in offers. To me it sounds like Denver is a tad confused currently. Edited April 3, 2009 by Jenks Heat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Orton put up a 79.6 QB rating last season with a worse O-Line and worst WR's to throw to. Is it crazy to expect he'll improve that number, and Cutler's will go down slightly? Orton also had Mr. Matt Forte to rely on most of the time and Cutler had s*** at RB with every team knowing the Broncos are a pass first, send and third team and the Bears are a run first, second and third team. Teams won't have that luxury to stack 8 men in the box. If that's the case, and if that's what your saying Andrew, then Forte should have a monster year then. Unless the Broncos address their RB situation in the draft, we'll see how Orton does when teams plan on he and his arm beating them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Steve, What no one mentions is that the Bears will have a 1st round rookie this year, his name is Chris Williams. Williams didnt play at all last year, so its more like we lost last years pick (which did nothing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Orton also had a 90.2 QB rating before he got hurt in the 1st 8 games of last season FWIW. If he's healthy, and he gets back to where in mechanics where back then (and not the Orton we saw in the 2nd half of last season), I think he can put up some real good numbers in Denver's system with better weapons to throw to and better protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (DBAHO @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 04:14 PM) Is it crazy to expect he'll improve that number, and Cutler's will go down slightly? Is it crazy to assume that Cutler's mobility is what made his O-Line look so good? Is it crazy to assume that it's Cutler's talent that made 4th rounder Brandon Marshall and 3rd rounder Eddie Royal look so amazing? It goes both ways, seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 05:18 PM) Orton also had Mr. Matt Forte to rely on most of the time and Cutler had s*** at RB with every team knowing the Broncos are a pass first, send and third team and the Bears are a run first, second and third team. Teams won't have that luxury to stack 8 men in the box. If that's the case, and if that's what your saying Andrew, then Forte should have a monster year then. Unless the Broncos address their RB situation in the draft, we'll see how Orton does when teams plan on he and his arm beating them. The Broncos are using a RB by committee aproach which is exactly what the Pats did. All of the Bronocs RB's last season also averaged above 4 yards a carry, so they were still successful, before they all got hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 05:20 PM) Is it crazy to assume that Cutler's mobility is what made his O-Line look so good? Is it crazy to assume that it's Cutler's talent that made 4th rounder Brandon Marshall and 3rd rounder Eddie Royal look so amazing? It goes both ways, seriously. Are you saying that Brandon Marshall was only good because of Jay Cutler. Marshall was compared to a mini TO coming out of college. It was because of character issues that he dropped IIRC. And Ryan Clady was argubly the best RT in the league last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (DBAHO @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 02:14 PM) Orton put up a 79.6 QB rating last season with a worse O-Line and worst WR's to throw to. Is it crazy to expect he'll improve that number, and Cutler's will go down slightly? I believe the Broncos WR are better, but how much? This is an interesting post from another forum I frequent that might have you think twice At first thought I would say absolutely. But then I started to think and the evidence might tell you a little something about Cutler. Take a look. Before Cutler came into the starting lineup in 2006, Brandon Marshall had 6 rec 76 yards 1 TD through 12 games. Throughout the final 4 games of the year when Cutler came in, Marshall had 14 rec 233 yards and 1 TD. Over the course of the next two years Marshall recorded 206 rec 2590 yards and 13 TD's. So who made who? Was it Cutler or Marshall? I think Cutler was the reason for Marshall's improvement. Tony Scheffler who was also drafted in 2006, pre Cutler, he had 6 rec 75 yards and 0 TD's through the first 12 games of the year. When Cutler was inserted into the starting lineup he had 12 rec 249 yards and 5 TD's. After that Tony had 89 rec, 1194 yards, and 8 TDs. The trend continues.. Eddie Royal wasn't a highly regarded receiver coming out of college. Did you expect 91 rec 980 yards and 5 TD's from him in his rookie year? I don't think so. Who was the cause of this? Jay Cutler! So what can we say about Cutler now? How is he going to improve not only Devin Hester's game but also Earl Bennett, a long time friend and teammate. I hope Cutler shuts up all the national media for saying he made a mistake coming to Chicago. I think he's going to have a helluva year and a great future in Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (DBAHO @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 05:17 PM) Explain to me how then? 1.) Off-season is not over. The #1 Wr may not be on the roster right now. 2.) Jay Cutler will not be behind Orton's old line. The line looks to be significantly upgraded. 3.) Take your pick: Kyle Orton plus Running backs by Committee or Jay Cutler and Matt Forte. Denver's RB's will have to deal with extra men in the box, while Forte will spread the Field for Cutler and Cutler for Forte. 4.) Greg Olson 5.) I expect with coaching changes, the defense in Chicago will improve. Cutler has never had a defense behind him. Denver will be improved on D, but they have a longer way to go than the Bears do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 03:16 PM) the Bears have exchanged their first rounder for Jay Cutler, and have a comparable draft the rest of the way to anyone else. It's flawless. They exchanged a 1st and 3rd this year for Cutler, and a 1st next season. While I somewhat can understand what you are trying to say about the draft here, you seem to be acting like losing two first round picks is no big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 02:18 PM) This morning on the radio the old G.M. from Denver (Ted Sunquist?) was explaining that the Broncos did not even return phone calls to at least 5 teams, one being the Jets and that the thought was that Denver could have gotten more. McDaniels liked Orton over Campbell............. Also the Bears pro personnel guy did all of the leg work on this and had been in contact with Denver since day one and used his connections to seal the deal, I forget his name, before other teams even sent in offers. To me it sounds like Denver is a tad confused currently. Gabriel? He's widely regarded as one of the best personell guys in the business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (DBAHO @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 02:19 PM) Orton also had a 90.2 QB rating before he got hurt in the 1st 8 games of last season FWIW. If he's healthy, and he gets back to where in mechanics where back then (and not the Orton we saw in the 2nd half of last season), I think he can put up some real good numbers in Denver's system with better weapons to throw to and better protection. I've watched enough Broncos and Bears games to tell you there is no comparing the two QB's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (DBAHO @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 02:21 PM) The Broncos are using a RB by committee aproach which is exactly what the Pats did. All of the Bronocs RB's last season also averaged above 4 yards a carry, so they were still successful, before they all got hurt. No one in NFL circles will tell you that the Broncos had a good ground game or that anyone at all schemed for it. Everyone worked on defending the pass and doing whatever they could to do such and as a result, the Broncos poor backs were able to put up above average numbers. I've heard that from Dan Reeves, and a s***ton of random people on NFL network. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (T R U @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 05:24 PM) They exchanged a 1st and 3rd this year for Cutler, and a 1st next season. While I somewhat can understand what you are trying to say about the draft here, you seem to be acting like losing two first round picks is no big deal. Bears had an extra 3rd round pick to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 05:25 PM) I've watched enough Broncos and Bears games to tell you there is no comparing the two QB's. This is 100% true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (rangercal @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 02:23 PM) 1.) Off-season is not over. The #1 Wr may not be on the roster right now. 2.) Jay Cutler will not be behind Orton's old line. The line looks to be significantly upgraded. 3.) Take your pick: Kyle Orton plus Running backs by Committee or Jay Cutler and Matt Forte. Denver's RB's will have to deal with extra men in the box, while Forte will spread the Field for Cutler and Cutler for Forte. 4.) Greg Olson 5.) I expect with coaching changes, the defense in Chicago will improve. Cutler has never had a defense behind him. Denver will be improved on D, but they have a longer way to go than the Bears do. Don't forget a healthy Kevin Jones and a nice change of pace guy in Garret Wolfe and Adrian Peterson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (DBAHO @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 03:22 PM) And Ryan Clady was argubly the best RT in the league last season. Clady was a Pro Bowl/2nd team ALL PRO lineman as a rookie. That was not thanks to Jay Cutlers mobility Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 04:18 PM) Steve, What no one mentions is that the Bears will have a 1st round rookie this year, his name is Chris Williams. Williams didnt play at all last year, so its more like we lost last years pick (which did nothing). Another excellent point. Anyone who isn't twinkling with giddyness right now just can't be a Bears fan (DBAHO - Cowboys, TRU - Dolphins... who else?) My entire able-to-comprehend-things life, the Bears have been dogs*** at quarterback. I'd MUCH rather they burn two first rounders on a given, 25 year old commodity at quarterback, than burn a first rounder next year after Orton regresses, and after that QB doesn't pan out burn another one in 5 years. F*** that s***... we've been playing the QB Carousel game non-stop... for f***ing ever. No more. Cutler will be a well above average QB for the next 10 years... and he's nowhere near his peak! The one thing the Bears have not tried is trading for the 25 year old All-Pro quarterback... hell, no one's ever tried that, cuz that s*** don't happen. The Bears easily won this deal. They got the known commodity. They fixed what was a laughing stock throughout the sports community. They put a band-aid on a sack of frustrated, pissed off fans. I'm truly excited about the Bears' quarterback for the first time ever. Edited April 3, 2009 by Steve9347 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 QUOTE (rangercal @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 03:26 PM) Bears had an extra 3rd round pick to begin with. That doesn't mean the 3rd they traded is worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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