PA Shooter feared Obama, Gun Ban

[EvilMonkey]

I wonder what 'common sense gun laws' will be passed that would have stopped this tragedy if they had only been in place beforehand? Longer waiting periods, ban those dangerous looking weapons, maybe ban cartridges that hold more than 6 shots! I can wait for the typical knee-jerk reactions to this.

[kapkomet]

I wonder what 'common sense gun laws' will be passed that would have stopped this tragedy if they had only been in place beforehand? Longer waiting periods, ban those dangerous looking weapons, maybe ban cartridges that hold more than 6 shots! I can wait for the typical knee-jerk reactions to this.

That was my point, and it was a point facilitated in part by Mr. Obama's words.

 

[Balta1701]

That was my point, and it was a point facilitated in part by Mr. Obama's words.

So, for you 2...let me ask this in response...

 

What could have been done to prevent this?

 

We have a guy who, as far as we can tell, has a moderately violent background (fistfight with a neighbor on his record or something like that but no charges filed) who decides to go stock up on guns and ammunition and shoots up a bunch of police officers.

 

You can't tell me that having a more armed populace would have prevented it. Because for crying out loud, he shot a bunch of cops. If anyone's going to already be armed, it's them.

 

The guy has an AK47 and a bunch of other heavy weapons, magnum pistol, etc.

 

Do you guys just consider these 3 to be collateral damage? Or can you offer a suggestion as to how this could have been prevented.

[kapkomet]

So, for you 2...let me ask this in response...

 

What could have been done to prevent this?

 

We have a guy who, as far as we can tell, has a moderately violent background (fistfight with a neighbor on his record or something like that but no charges filed) who decides to go stock up on guns and ammunition and shoots up a bunch of police officers.

 

You can't tell me that having a more armed populace would have prevented it. Because for crying out loud, he shot a bunch of cops. If anyone's going to already be armed, it's them.

 

The guy has an AK47 and a bunch of other heavy weapons, magnum pistol, etc.

 

Do you guys just consider these 3 to be collateral damage? Or can you offer a suggestion as to how this could have been prevented.

Let me answer a question with a question. Is taking away guns going to solve it? Are you in support of abolishing the second amendment?

 

[StrangeSox]

Too late. I mean, he is going to save us from everything, is he not? He's just SO AWESOME! I'm so glad he went over to Europe this week to save us from ourselves.

 

You know, that's probably why this guy did this... he's upset Mr. Obama left the country and didn't take care of him in his time of need when he was so upset.

 

And seriously, I'm not making light of the situation... because it's a bad one. But, when you have Mr. Obama making quotes like this and some other things he has said about guns, people get fired up. It DOES NOT make some quack head doing something like this right, but this story and others like it will be used so "gun control" can be created; thus giving Mr. Obama another messianic moment.

 

Those fearing gun control shouldn't give front-page stories for gun-control supporters.

 

It really seems like you're making excuses for this guy and just using any possible moment to criticize Obama.

[Balta1701]

Let me answer a question with a question. Is taking away guns going to solve it? Are you in support of abolishing the second amendment?

Usually I say no. But then every time I try to say no, something like this happens. People who can completely legally get guns but who are essentially completely insane, and people wind up dead because of it.

 

So, I'm asking...offer me a different option.

[kapkomet]

Usually I say no. But then every time I try to say no, something like this happens. People who can completely legally get guns but who are essentially completely insane, and people wind up dead because of it.

 

So, I'm asking...offer me a different option.

There isn't one, and you know it. Unfortunately, that's the risk that comes with a "free" society, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I would much rather deal with the exceptions then have rules framed around them.

[kapkomet]

Those fearing gun control shouldn't give front-page stories for gun-control supporters.

 

It really seems like you're making excuses for this guy and just using any possible moment to criticize Obama.

Sure. Those fearing free market economies shouldn't give front-page stories for Mr. Obama tearing them a new asshole, either.

 

And you're damn right I will criticize Obama, since no one else seems to give a s*** that he's moving our country to a Euro-weenie social democracy.

 

[lostfan]

At just completely random times, topic notwithstanding, in almost every post? It can get pretty annoying to be honest. That's the same reason people were complaining about AHB during the election season last year.

[BigSqwert]

Sure. Those fearing free market economies shouldn't give front-page stories for Mr. Obama tearing them a new asshole, either.

 

And you're damn right I will criticize Obama, since no one else seems to give a s*** that he's moving our country to a Euro-weenie social democracy.

You're un-American for criticizing our President during a time of war. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[kapkomet]

You're un-American for criticizing our President during a time of war. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Hi, Pot, Kettle.

 

I'm just doing you a favor, just like you did GWB for all those years.

 

It's funny to see all of you all upset over this.

 

[kapkomet]

At just completely random times, topic notwithstanding, in almost every post? It can get pretty annoying to be honest. That's the same reason people were complaining about AHB during the election season last year.

Yup! And it's not very nice, is it?

 

I've sat here and read for 5 damn years about how bad everything Republican is. And as I just said, it's funny because all of you just bite the cheese every time.

 

Feel the love for Mr. Obama!

 

I got your point, so I'll tame it down. But honestly, this is pretty easy pickings. This guy is not what you all thought you were electing. He's a liberal GWB.

[lostfan]

Yup! And it's not very nice, is it?

 

I've sat here and read for 5 damn years about how bad everything Republican is. And as I just said, it's funny because all of you just bite the cheese every time.

 

Feel the love for Mr. Obama!

 

I got your point, so I'll tame it down. But honestly, this is pretty easy pickings. This guy is not what you all thought you were electing. He's a liberal GWB.

Some of us, in fact probably more than many people think, honestly were thinking realistically when we voted for him. From that perspective, not only do you have to see the left b****ing about how he is not doing all of the idealistic things they projected onto him (duh), but you get stereotyped by conservative cynics who just call everyone who doesn't blast him for being a liberal (again, duh) mindless sheep. Maybe the shotgun blast is aimed at one group, but it hits everything whether intentional or not.

Edited April 5, 2009 by lostfan

[kapkomet]

Some of us, in fact probably more than many people think, honestly were thinking realistically when we voted for him. From that perspective, not only do you have to see the left b****ing about how he is not doing all of the idealistic things they projected onto him (duh), but you get stereotyped by conservative cynics who just call everyone who doesn't blast him for being a liberal (again, duh) mindless sheep. Maybe the shotgun blast is aimed at one group, but it hits everything whether intentional or not.

I hate to say it, but most people were mindless sheep when they voted for him.

 

I will ABSOLUTELY say that 99% of the people on this board are NOT mindless sheep. You all at least are engaged enough about the issues to be informed.

 

The mindless sheep, generally, just wanted "change" but they had no idea what they were voting for, and that really troubles me. At the same time, though, there was a lot of mindless sheep bashing GWB every chance they got, and that DOES include some on this board. That's the hypocracy, and the trouble I have with the defense everything Mr. Obama does.

 

That's enough for me. I've made my point and ruined a thread.

 

[lostfan]

Well, I'll agree that Obama has gotten away with a few things that are in essence the same that Bush did (and at the same time, Bush wasn't always wrong), but Bush couldn't get away with it since everyone hated him, and Obama gets a free pass because he's popular and he's not Bush. As for everything else, I've realized and accepted that the majority of Americans are pretty dumb. That's why I talk about politics here, where most people are of above-average intelligence and are capable of arguing beyond standard political talking points (with a notable exception or two, I won't mention names), and not somewhere like the comments section of CNN.

[kapkomet]

Just to make it clear, again, almost everyone who posts in this forum is very educated on the events and how important it is to keep up to speed on these things. Unfortunately, "sheep" are what elect people, not the knowledgeable American.

 

[EvilMonkey]

So, for you 2...let me ask this in response...

 

What could have been done to prevent this?

 

We have a guy who, as far as we can tell, has a moderately violent background (fistfight with a neighbor on his record or something like that but no charges filed) who decides to go stock up on guns and ammunition and shoots up a bunch of police officers.

 

You can't tell me that having a more armed populace would have prevented it. Because for crying out loud, he shot a bunch of cops. If anyone's going to already be armed, it's them.

 

The guy has an AK47 and a bunch of other heavy weapons, magnum pistol, etc.

 

Do you guys just consider these 3 to be collateral damage? Or can you offer a suggestion as to how this could have been prevented.

Balta, there is information missing from the story that could be needed before making any determination. In PA, you don't need to register your guns. Would that have stopped this madman? No, but I bet that comes up soon as a 'sensible gun law'. In PA there are background checks for all gun purchases, including gun shows and private transfers. Sure, he could have bought the guns privately and NOT had a background check, but hey, there is already a law about that one! if that's what he did, it didn't help much. Was he mentally unstable? It appears that could be the case from the few thigs mentioned about him, however there are already laws on the PA books about people with mental problems purchasing guns. And the statement about Obama so far has oonly come from a 'friend', and could probbaly be shot down in court since there is no way to prove that is what he said. Is the 'friend' an anti-gun nut? Could he be exageratting the situation for the benefit of his cause? not impossible in this world today. Not even 24 hours have passed and anti gun pundits are calling for 'effective steps to curb gun violence'. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-helmke/...a_b_183045.html. "The laws on the books aren't getting the job done" The media and the anti's have a clear agenda here. The implications here are clear: gun owners, and those who believe in the right to keep and bear arms are maniacs and lunatics, all to be judged based on the actions that took place here.

 

I will counter to you Balta that it is up to YOU to come up with a suggestion as to how this could have been prevented. I will say that yes, collateral damage. There are laws on the books already to prevent crazy people from buying guns, for registering guns and for 'assault weapons'. Yet you had a guy who was probably crazy with an assult weapon that wasn't registered. What new law could you pass that would have prevented him from doing his deeds that doesn't infringe upon the rights of MILLIONS of gun owners who never do anythign wrong. Are you going to punish the millions of law abiding citizens for the acts of a few criminals? Would fingerprinting of ammo have stopped this? no. Would even more restrictive rules on gun shows or private transfers have prevented this? No. Would a longer waiting period have stopped this? No. Would banning AK-47's have stopped this? Already done in PA, and didn't work. More stringent background checks? maybe. PA has apretty good one from what i am told, but whatever check is used is only as good as the information that is put into it by others in the system. So probbaly the answer would be No.

Edited April 5, 2009 by Alpha Dog

[NorthSideSox72]

Obama isn't going to ban guns, and even if he wanted to, it would never fly. Heck the AWB isn't gonna fly either. This was just a down-on-his-luck guy with some anger issues, who leapt to some ridiculous political conclusions in order to justify violence.

 

By the way... read that last sentence I typed above. It also happens to describe exactly what you see from radical Islamic terrorists - except they are usually far more down-on-their-luck than this guy.

 

Either way, don't go trying to link this kind of behavior with all gun rights poeple (Balta, I'm looking at you), or all Muslims (Alpha, I'm looking at you).

 

 

[StrangeSox]

And you're damn right I will criticize Obama, since no one else seems to give a s*** that he's moving our country to a Euro-weenie social democracy.

 

[Kyyle23]

This story is just bizarre. This all started because this guy got in an argument with his Mom because his dog peed on her floor, so she called the cops to have him removed from her house because he was fighting with her about it.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/05/pittsb....dog/index.html

 

Details of the incident were included in the police complaint seeking an arrest warrant for Poplawski. The complaint says Margaret Poplawski called 911 about 7 a.m. Saturday to report that her son was "giving her a hard time." Watch officers respond at the scene »

 

She told police she awoke to discover that "the dog had urinated on the floor," and awakened her son "to confront him about it."

 

The two had an argument, and Margaret Poplawski told her son she was calling police to remove him from her home, according to the complaint. When officers Stephen Mayhle and Paul Sciullo III arrived, she opened the door and let them in.

 

"Mrs. Poplawski reported that as the officers entered approximately 10 feet into the residence, she heard gunshots, turned and saw her son about six feet away with a long rifle in his hands, at which point she fled downstairs after asking him, 'What the hell have you done?'" the complaint said.

 

Margaret Poplawski reported she stayed in the basement during the standoff, and heard her son yell, "Yeah, I've been shot," and "I'm standing down, come in and help me," according to the complaint.

 

Police Chief Nathan Harper identified the dead officers as Eric Kelly, Mayhle and Sciullo. Kelly was a 14-year veteran of the department; the other two had worked there for two years each.

 

The chief said Sciullo was the first to approach the home, and was shot in the head as he entered the doorway. When Mayhle tried to help his fellow officer, he also was shot in the head. Kelly arrived at the scene and was shot before he could aid the other two officers, Harper said.

 

Harper said the suspect fired from a bedroom window, shooting at an armored vehicle carrying a SWAT team -- preventing those officers and medics from reaching the wounded policemen.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2009 by kyyle23

[mr_genius]

the only solution is to ban all guns, knives, and pointy sticks.

 

 

[Balta1701]

the only solution is to ban all guns, knives, and pointy sticks.

The obvious solution is more guns. If the dog had been packing, this never would have happened.

[mr_genius]

The obvious solution is more guns. If the dog had been packing, this never would have happened.

 

We need to address the root cause of the problem. Dogs that pee on stuff.

 

If there was a ban on canines this tragedy would not have happened.

[santo=dorf]

the only solution is to ban all guns, knives, and pointy sticks.

Let's just ban ammunition so people wont have to worry about losing their precious guns. I'm sure gun collectors wouldn't care less if the government went this route. The second ammendment just talks about firearms, correct?

[Texsox]

It's because a lot of people believe that it's coming. Since Mr. Obama clearly understands what this guy's plight is, I'm sure he'll want to swoop in to rescue us all from guns. We, the people, can't be trusted.

 

It certainly is good for business to create a "buy it now before it gets banned" sale at higher prices.

Oh wait, gun shops and manufacturers wouldn't do that

 

Obama has done more to spur gun sales and ammunition sales in this country than any other President. Every time a Dem is elected President, the industry pumps up the warning, increasing sales. And the general public takes it full barrel, so to speak.