AL Central Rotations

[jenksycat]

I think the Indians rotation is going to be a lot better than people here think. They are a close #3 behind the Sox, with the Twins being #1.

 

Yeah Cliff Lee will def. win 22 games again and Pavano is gonna be a solid #3

[Leonard Zelig]

Anthony Reyes has got talent, we saw that first hand. I'm afraid a change of scenery may give him a big boost like we saw with Floyd.

[RockRaines]

Funny how alot of "experts" like the Indians rotation yet call Bartolo a "question mark." What would you call a Pavano as a #3 starter then?

[witesoxfan]

Yeah Cliff Lee will def. win 22 games again and Pavano is gonna be a solid #3

 

Scott Lewis has been a pretty damn good pitcher coming up in the Indians system and I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up pitching like Nick Blackburn did last year. Anthony Reyes has been a pretty solid pitcher coming up and, from everything I've read, he never bought into the Dave Duncan pitching philosophy. In his final 6 starts last year, he absolutely f***ing dominated. Fausto Carmona has amazing stuff and was mediocre last year, but I could easily see him being good again this year. And that's completely forgetting that they have solid options in Westbrook (when he gets healthy), Sowers, and Adam Miller too.

 

Add all of that to the fact that Cliff Lee should be solid again, and Pavano could very easily be a solid starter. Cleveland has had luck with atleast one pitcher like that in the past, and it may be more than that.

 

I am never really sold on Cleveland, but they could very easily be a damn good team this year.

[RockRaines]

Pavano is gonna be a solid #3

What makes you think that exactly? Is it the 26 games he's pitched since 2004? Is it because he's older than Buehrle, yet has pitched about half as many innings? Oh and he's 3 years older than Mark. His 4.32 ERA mostly in the NL isnt exactly impressive either. Oh wait, Matt Clement, who just retired because of injuries over the last 3 seasons (like Pavano), pitched about 400 more innings than Carl, with a better BAA. Pavano should be considered a #5 AT BEST.

[jenksycat]

What makes you think that exactly? Is it the 26 games he's pitched since 2004? Is it because he's older than Buehrle, yet has pitched about half as many innings? Oh and he's 3 years older than Mark. His 4.32 ERA mostly in the NL isnt exactly impressive either. Oh wait, Matt Clement, who just retired because of injuries over the last 3 seasons (like Pavano), pitched about 400 more innings than Carl, with a better BAA. Pavano should be considered a #5 AT BEST.

 

was supposed to be green

 

I think the indians rotation will be 2nd worst in the division ahead of detroit.

 

I think the sox have easily the best pitching staff in the division

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Scott Lewis has been a pretty damn good pitcher coming up in the Indians system and I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up pitching like Nick Blackburn did last year. Anthony Reyes has been a pretty solid pitcher coming up and, from everything I've read, he never bought into the Dave Duncan pitching philosophy. In his final 6 starts last year, he absolutely f***ing dominated. Fausto Carmona has amazing stuff and was mediocre last year, but I could easily see him being good again this year. And that's completely forgetting that they have solid options in Westbrook (when he gets healthy), Sowers, and Adam Miller too.

 

Add all of that to the fact that Cliff Lee should be solid again, and Pavano could very easily be a solid starter. Cleveland has had luck with atleast one pitcher like that in the past, and it may be more than that.

 

I am never really sold on Cleveland, but they could very easily be a damn good team this year.

Adam Miller is probably done. Per CBSsports:

 

Miller is facing career-threatening reconstructive finger surgery if he is unable to find a new way to pitch effectively. Miller, who underwent surgery on his right middle finger last year, will spend the next seven to 10 days throwing to see if he can command his pitches without pain, Indians trainer Lonnie Soloff said Wednesday. If Miller can't, he will have a procedure where a tendon will be taken from his wrist to reattach the tendon in his finger. Surgery would cost Miller this season and perhaps end his career. Ignore him outside of the deepest of long-term keeper leagues at this point. The one-time potential front-line starter had already been moved to the bullpen and now he will be shuffled off to Fantasy obscurity for another year, perhaps forever.

 

I agree on Carmona. Carmona might become the most dominate pitcher in the AL Central now that Sabathia and Santana are both gone. He's had his ups and downs, but his 2007 season was not a fluke. He's a young pitcher and he is very capable of becoming a force year in and year out.

 

Agree on Reyes as well. I really wanted the Sox to pick him up when he was released/waived/traded for scraps or whatever happened. He has way too much talent to be given up for nothing or a bag of peanuts. I hope he doesn't get it together because if he does we're not going to have fun facing him. I read he was a bit of a headcase/asshole though, so if that's accurate maybe his chances aren't as good as I think they are.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

The rotations going into this year are going to be tougher than usual to gauge.

 

Every team aside from the Sox has at least one very talented young pitcher who has never had success over a full season in the big leagues before. If one of Liriano, Reyes, Porcello, Jackson, or Davies stay healthy and go off this year then that man's team is going to be a lot more dangerous than it looks on paper.

 

You've also got young pitchers who have had success in the past over a full season but are still young enough to be seen as question marks. Danks, Floyd, Slowey, Baker, Carmona, Greinke, Galarraga all fit this description.

 

Then you've got the veterans in Colon, Contreras, and Pavano who could be huge pluses out of nowhere.

 

The only pitcher in the whole division that I think you can call a consistent veteran that can be counted on is Mark Buehrle. Meche has only had two good years in a row and Lee has only had two above-average full seasons.

 

Bottom line, there are going to be a lot of surprises. There will be breakouts, regressions, probably a veteran somewhere who will come back as an at least decent pitcher, and this will almost certainly be the division that leads the AL in number of different starting pitchers used. Each team may end up using at least 7 different starting pitchers, not counting make-up games. The Twins would appear to be the safest here in terms of depth, followed by the Royals (Hochevar, Cortes, Bannister), Tigers (Bonderman and Robertson), Indians (Westbrook later on, Laffey, Sowers), and lastly our Sox (Richard? Marquez? Poreda? Broadway? LOL we suck in this area, no good depth. Hopefully Harrell makes some noise this year, and I do like Egbert if he moves back to starting, plus there is Ely and Cassel, but there's virtually zero MLB experience here and nobody who looks like he could be better than a back-end guy sans Harrell).

[caulfield12]

Scott Lewis has been a pretty damn good pitcher coming up in the Indians system and I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up pitching like Nick Blackburn did last year. Anthony Reyes has been a pretty solid pitcher coming up and, from everything I've read, he never bought into the Dave Duncan pitching philosophy. In his final 6 starts last year, he absolutely f***ing dominated. Fausto Carmona has amazing stuff and was mediocre last year, but I could easily see him being good again this year. And that's completely forgetting that they have solid options in Westbrook (when he gets healthy), Sowers, and Adam Miller too.

 

Add all of that to the fact that Cliff Lee should be solid again, and Pavano could very easily be a solid starter. Cleveland has had luck with atleast one pitcher like that in the past, and it may be more than that.

 

I am never really sold on Cleveland, but they could very easily be a damn good team this year.

 

 

I'm not so sold on the Millers, Zach Jacksons, Aaron Laffeys and Sowerses of the world.

 

You're right though, Lewis AND Reyes both could end up having very similar seasons to what we got out of Danks and Floyd. Which leaves three more question marks....will Lee go backwards again like in his sophomore campaign, will the real Carmona show up (and when)?) and can Pavano be both healthy AND effective?

 

Not to mention we don't know what they'll get out of Westbrook when he comes back, if anything.

[caulfield12]

The rotations going into this year are going to be tougher than usual to gauge.

 

Every team aside from the Sox has at least one very talented young pitcher who has never had success over a full season in the big leagues before. If one of Liriano, Reyes, Porcello, Jackson, or Davies stay healthy and go off this year then that man's team is going to be a lot more dangerous than it looks on paper.

 

You've also got young pitchers who have had success in the past over a full season but are still young enough to be seen as question marks. Danks, Floyd, Slowey, Baker, Carmona, Greinke, Galarraga all fit this description.

 

Then you've got the veterans in Colon, Contreras, and Pavano who could be huge pluses out of nowhere.

 

The only pitcher in the whole division that I think you can call a consistent veteran that can be counted on is Mark Buehrle. Meche has only had two good years in a row and Lee has only had two above-average full seasons.

 

Bottom line, there are going to be a lot of surprises. There will be breakouts, regressions, probably a veteran somewhere who will come back as an at least decent pitcher, and this will almost certainly be the division that leads the AL in number of different starting pitchers used. Each team may end up using at least 7 different starting pitchers, not counting make-up games. The Twins would appear to be the safest here in terms of depth, followed by the Royals (Hochevar, Cortes, Bannister), Tigers (Bonderman and Robertson), Indians (Westbrook later on, Laffey, Sowers), and lastly our Sox (Richard? Marquez? Poreda? Broadway? LOL we suck in this area, no good depth. Hopefully Harrell makes some noise this year, and I do like Egbert if he moves back to starting, plus there is Ely and Cassel, but there's virtually zero MLB experience here and nobody who looks like he could be better than a back-end guy sans Harrell).

 

 

Yes, we're loaded with position prospects (I'm even sort of excited about Eduardo Escobar) and yet the only starters who might be CLOSE to legit are Poreda and Richard from all appearances. We need someone to step up out of nowhere in Winston-Salem and BIRM (like Santeliz) and have a DLS year and evolve to become a legit starting prospect. Marquez, after starting out looking like a possibility...has found himself in a sinkhole again.

 

You just have to hope that Reyes turns out to be the Indians' version of Delmon Young. All the talent in the world, but a negative force/vibe in the clubhouse and with the coaching staff that negates his positive contributions.

 

You look at their line-up, though, with the exception of Travis Hafner...they could be very very good if Choo, Francisco and Cabrera continue to progress.

 

In many ways, the Indians are a mirror of the White Sox in terms of their issues (defense on the infield, back of the rotation, end of the bullpen, Wood's health I guess is more uncertain than Jenks...I also guess you could equate Hafner to one of our older "core" players going down with an injury, although it really looks at this point like you could stick a fork in him...they have two huge bats in Sizemore and Martinez, and Garko is relegated to the bench, with Shoppach being possibly the 2nd or 3rd best catcher in baseball this season (offensively/defensively)

 

Imagine if Josh Barfield, Marte and Brandon Phillips all would have progressed? Phillips had a down year last season in terms of strikeouts and OBP, but he's the freaking clean-up hitter now for the Reds with Votto and Bruce around him. And he's a Gold Glove caliber defender, to boot.

 

Still, I think the one move that will hurt them is giving up on Franklyn Gutierrez's defense. I think they will miss him, because Francisco and Choo on the corners are just so-so...which is yet another parallel with the White Sox. Still, I'll take my chances with Ozzie and Cooper and our staff over Wedge, who seems to never maximize the talent on that roster.

 

They've got LaPorta coming...and we have Beckham/Viciedo, in terms of impact bats.

 

 

 

 

[bighurt4life]

that and the fact that if colon and contreras stay healthy(yea thats a huge if) , we have 5 potential aces. no other team in our division can say that.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say aces but we definitely have the makings of the most solid rotation in the division. I really think that right now we have fewer questions than any other team, it's only a matter of time b4 the count and doughboy get completely healthy if not already.

[bmags]

Did someone say he didn't buy into the Dave Duncan strategy as some sort of compliment?

[Leonard Zelig]

Did someone say he didn't buy into the Dave Duncan strategy as some sort of compliment?

 

LaRussa and Duncan don't have a great reputation of working with young pitchers.

[caulfield12]

Still, it's pretty hard to argue with their level of success in working with the same type of pitchers that Cooper has excelled with.

 

Chris Carpenter's career was going nowhere, despite all the talent in the world. Kyle Lohse...they even got a serviceable half-season out of Kip Wells. Ankiel is a hard one to explain, he's one of those guys a Disney movie (like The Rookie) should be made about his career someday, just like Josh Hamilton.

 

Jeff Suppan would be another who rediscovered his career there...some others had mixed success, like Pineiro, Jeff Weaver, Sidney Ponson. Matt Morris really struggled after he left that team...although most of it was injuries taking their toll and age. The Benes brothers.

 

They've seemingly done a very good job with Wainwright.

Edited April 7, 2009 by caulfield12

[WHITESOXRANDY]

There are only 2 teams with enough pitching to win the A.L. Central - the White Sox and the Twins.

 

The Tigers probably have the worst pitching in the entire American League.

 

Cleveland and K.C. are awful 3-5.

 

The White Sox will win the division.

 

 

[2OutRally]

There are only 2 teams with enough pitching to win the A.L. Central - the White Sox and the Twins.

 

The Tigers probably have the worst pitching in the entire American League.

 

Cleveland and K.C. are awful 3-5.

 

The White Sox will win the division.

 

Kyle Davies (the Royals #3 starter) is my pick to be the surprise pitcher of the year. He dominated last September (4-1, 2.27 ERA) and had a good spring. Ramirez will most likely struggle, but you never know what you're gunna get from Ponson. You know, before he ends up getting released for mysterious reasons. He had some solid starts for the Rangers last season.

[Kyyle23]

Kyle Davies (the Royals #3 starter) is my pick to be the surprise pitcher of the year. He dominated last September (4-1, 2.27 ERA) and had a good spring. Ramirez will most likely struggle, but you never know what you're gunna get from Ponson. You know, before he ends up getting released for mysterious reasons. He had some solid starts for the Rangers last season.

 

Its never a mystery. The man loves the sauce. And he loves to eat.

[soxfan3530]

I would say the Twins have the best rotation, but the Sox have the better offense. Cleveland is just plain overrated. Should be a good race!

[caulfield12]

Ponson is the John Daly of MLB. However, he oozes (in a Terry Forster, tub of gooish way) with talent and goes out and beats the Dominican Republic in the WBC and yet another team thinks they can turn him around for good and gives him another chance...kind of like Jeff Weaver.

Edited April 7, 2009 by caulfield12

[DBAHO]

There are only 2 teams with enough pitching to win the A.L. Central - the White Sox and the Twins.

 

The Tigers probably have the worst pitching in the entire American League.

 

Cleveland and K.C. are awful 3-5.

 

The White Sox will win the division.

I think if anything, Cleveland need to be most concerned about Cliff Lee regressing.

 

They also need for Carmona to bounce back to his 2007 form.

[JorgeFabregas]

I think the Twins are a pretty clear #1 in terms of rotation. However, I think the Sox have the second best rotation and second best lineup--while the Twins' lineup may be the worst in the division. If the Sox' defense is decent (which is no sure thing), then they should have a good shot at winning the division.

[Kyyle23]

Ponson is the John Daly of MLB. However, he oozes (in a Terry Forster, tub of gooish way) with talent and goes out and beats the Dominican Republic in the WBC and yet another team thinks they can turn him around for good and gives him another chance...kind of like Jeff Weaver.

 

 

In all fairness, Weaver dominated for St Louis down the stretch and in the playoffs/World Series in 06, its not like he went to the WBC and was resurrected like Ponson

[caulfield12]

I think the Twins are a pretty clear #1 in terms of rotation. However, I think the Sox have the second best rotation and second best lineup--while the Twins' lineup may be the worst in the division. If the Sox' defense is decent (which is no sure thing), then they should have a good shot at winning the division.

 

 

I don't know...Baker is injured right now, and Slowey will have to prove himself year after year with his so-so stuff. OTOH, he's probably the best candidate (along with Sonnanstine) to evolve into the next Greg Maddux.

 

Liriano might be able to throw 93-95 right now, but he still can't bust off that slider like he used to...that was his elimination pitch, like Johan's change-up that you just can't touch even if you're looking for it. I have a feeling he will never be anything but a #3 (possibly #2) for the rest of his career, before his elbow goes out again. It will be too much of temptation for him to throw that slider again, because his FB is pretty flat and is going to be hit hard if he doesn't get ahead in the count.

Overall, Baker probably will be a better pitcher than Liriano from this point forward.

 

Let's not forget, Perkins and Blackburn were VERY shaky down the stretch, Perkins was even skipped in the rotation he was doing so poorly (kind of like their pitching version of our Nick Swisher).

 

Did anyone see Swisher's antics in the dugout yesterday when he got that PH double? Same old Nick, minus the facial hair. I just don't see him being happy getting only 150 at-bats in NY.

Edited April 7, 2009 by caulfield12

[Chisoxfn]

Wow, everyone has some shaky back-ends of the rotation, but I dont' think there is any rotations back ends that I like least than the Royals and Tribe which is why I'll pick those two as having the worse rotations. Plus Carmona has had one good season and a couple meh ones so I don't even love the Indians front of the rotation that much. The Twins and Sox probably have the best 1 through 3 and the Twins have the most depth, if they are healthy, with the Sox clearly having the chance to be the best, but your talking about major iffs in Contreras and Colon and I'm not in love with the Sox 6th starters depth (not a Marquez fan at all, nor do I think Richards projects to be that great of a starter, same with Poreda, but I think both will have very long and productive major league careers). I put the Tigers as a solid three and if there young guys develop quicker than expected and Verlander gets back to what he's capable of, they could be the surprise of the Central, imo.

 

Anyone the tells me the Tribe is really overrating the Lee/Carmona combo, imo, as well as ignoring the fact that Reyes was a poor pitcher in the NL and that Pavano is a bigger if than anyone in the Sox rotation.

[Balta1701]

Chris Carpenter's career was going nowhere, despite all the talent in the world. Kyle Lohse...they even got a serviceable half-season out of Kip Wells. Ankiel is a hard one to explain, he's one of those guys a Disney movie (like The Rookie) should be made about his career someday, just like Josh Hamilton.

They could call it "HGH" and treat it as a documentary.