iamshack Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 27, 2009 -> 01:22 PM) All I'm saying is the team came out ill-prepared and the veterans have played flat. Lovie needs to make a statement and start sitting the vets that don't play, etc and being agressive to let people know that enough is enough. He finally did that with Tommie Harris and I comment him. And I still think the Bears are a playoff team, I just think there has been an overall lack of accountability going on in Chicago for a couple years under Lovie and it is getting old. Ron Turner was okay last year, but he's had some abysmal years calling shots, specifically the year after the superbowl where Turner was awful. Bob Babich got a year too long and Lovie ultimately needs a lot of heat for what went down on the defensive side of the football. Rivera is a scapegoat and gets far too much credit, but at the same time, when you get rid of a guy that was donig a good job and being very creative on his blitz schemes (it was a hybrid cover 2) and than switch him for a buddy and that guy fails your going to take heat. San Diego was raving about Rivera last season, this year they've been decimated with injuries (and someone will for sure point out how the Bears were this year...although I think Urlacher is the only key injury and Pisa was a luxury). And no I don't think Rivera is all that great either. Bottom line though, the tone of this team has been poor and it has gotten worse. We haven't seen much development out of any of our young players (sans our Wr's) over the past 3 years and our vets have gotten nothing but worse but seem to continuously get a free pass as they continue to play. I agree with a lot of this. I just happen to believe that in the NFL, you need to really stay away from making harsh judgments as things can look really bad or really good based on very little...Personally, I need to see more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 27, 2009 -> 10:15 AM) I think you're comparing apples to oranges though as well. You're talking about bringing in an elite football coach but not the possibility of bringing in an elite baseball manager... If we hired Shanahan, would be suddenly become a powerhouse in the NFC? If we hired LaRussa, would we suddenly become a powerhouse in the AL? I tend to think you could make an argument for both... I happen to think Ozzie is an upper echelon manager. He might not be the best at the X's and O's of baseball, but I believe he's one of the very best at managing the psyche of the players and I believe he always holds players accountable while still having a good relationship with the team. Ozzie is very underrated on Soxtalk, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 27, 2009 -> 01:26 PM) I happen to think Ozzie is an upper echelon manager. He might not be the best at the X's and O's of baseball, but I believe he's one of the very best at managing the psyche of the players and I believe he always holds players accountable while still having a good relationship with the team. Ozzie is very underrated on Soxtalk, imo. I like Ozzie a lot as well. One question that has crept into my mind is whether his act works well as the season wears on...I'm getting tired of us always fading in August and the beginning of Sept before finally turning things around when it is close to too late or already too late. Is he putting too much pressure on them? I don't know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Chisoxfn, as far as your belief that Rivera had creative blitz schemes, I disagree and this was one of the biggest reasons I criticized him while he was still in Chicago. When the line wasn't getting a pass rush (i.e. Harris got hurt) the defense looked totally anemic, and he could not generate pressure. Remember that loooooooong period where Urlacher didn't get any sacks in 2006? That was Rivera's defense. Sending Urlacher straight up the middle, undisguised, yeah of course he's gonna get blocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Dan Snyder and Redskin fans dont like each other too much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Oct 27, 2009 -> 12:56 PM) Chisoxfn, as far as your belief that Rivera had creative blitz schemes, I disagree and this was one of the biggest reasons I criticized him while he was still in Chicago. When the line wasn't getting a pass rush (i.e. Harris got hurt) the defense looked totally anemic, and he could not generate pressure. Remember that loooooooong period where Urlacher didn't get any sacks in 2006? That was Rivera's defense. Sending Urlacher straight up the middle, undisguised, yeah of course he's gonna get blocked. Urlacher was most effective when we had Traylor and Williams to keep him clean. Obviously their size keeps personnel such as them from being placed into a Cover 2 scheme, but one would think there would be a hybrid system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 27, 2009 -> 02:04 PM) Urlacher was most effective when we had Traylor and Williams to keep him clean. Obviously their size keeps personnel such as them from being placed into a Cover 2 scheme, but one would think there would be a hybrid system... Ray Lewis is another guy who benefitted immensely from having humungous tackles occupying space in front of him during their superbowl run and following years. He had guys like Goose in front of him taking doubleteams and blockers and he could just go anywhere he wanted. Im not saying those guys up front MADE Ray Lewis, he is still an amazing player, but they allowed him to be that much better, which is what Traylor and Washington did for Urlacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 27, 2009 -> 01:08 PM) Ray Lewis is another guy who benefitted immensely from having humungous tackles occupying space in front of him during their superbowl run and following years. He had guys like Goose in front of him taking doubleteams and blockers and he could just go anywhere he wanted. Im not saying those guys up front MADE Ray Lewis, he is still an amazing player, but they allowed him to be that much better, which is what Traylor and Washington did for Urlacher Sorry, Washington. I knew Williams didn't sound right. But when you have linebackers like that, maybe it's best to put them in situations to succeed instead of trying to fit them into situations where their success will be limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Before Harris started sucking the line in front of Urlacher was great. Urlacher didn't do s*** in the Super Bowl but this is because the DTs were being blown off the line of scrimmage by the Colts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Oct 27, 2009 -> 01:19 PM) Before Harris started sucking the line in front of Urlacher was great. Urlacher didn't do s*** in the Super Bowl but this is because the DTs were being blown off the line of scrimmage by the Colts. Yeah, but Urlacher's role, while supposedly was going to be bigger in the Cover 2, has not really been the case in my opinion. Of course, it's tough to truly evaluate, as he has aged and been injured for much of Lovie's tenure here. Now I interpret the role of the mlb to be big in the Cover 2 because he is filling in the main weakness of the scheme, but I personally found him to be a more productive player when he could roam free more. Of course, seeing what happened last week may force me to re-evaluate that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasox24 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 27, 2009 -> 01:15 PM) Sorry, Washington. I knew Williams didn't sound right. But when you have linebackers like that, maybe it's best to put them in situations to succeed instead of trying to fit them into situations where their success will be limited. That's what a great coach would do. Put his best player(s) in a position to succeed due to their strengths, rather than making them do something they're not. Not saying that's what Lovie did, as Urlacher won a DPOY in this defense. But, you could make a case Lovie hasn't used Urlacher correctly the last couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Larry Johnson of KC is about to be cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) I've seen ripping of Chris Williams in this thread, but Williams' scouting reports said that he was quick and athletic but not overpowering, a good pass blocker, but mediocre run blocker. Meaning he should be a LT, not an RT. Pace is playing LT mostly because of his name but Williams never profiled very well to be a RT. Square peg, round hole. Edited October 28, 2009 by lostfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasox24 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Oct 27, 2009 -> 10:36 PM) I've seen ripping of Chris Williams in this thread, but Williams' scouting reports said that he was quick and athletic but not overpowering, a good pass blocker, but mediocre run blocker. Meaning he should be a LT, not an RT. Pace is playing LT mostly because of his name but Williams never profiled very well to be a RT. Square peg, round hole. Exactly. That's what I've been thinking all along. You have to understand he's not a RT, but most average Bears fans overreact and say he's a bust. Yeah, his 1st season of playing at a position he's not meant for, and he's a bust? Right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Amazing how top running backs just drop off from the face of the earth. Terrell Davis Shaun Alexander Priest Holmes Larry Johnson LaDanian Tomlinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Oct 28, 2009 -> 01:05 AM) Amazing how top running backs just drop off from the face of the earth. Terrell Davis Shaun Alexander Priest Holmes Larry Johnson LaDanian Tomlinson I remember seeing a research piece about backs who get more than 400 carries in a season falling apart very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 28, 2009 -> 07:00 AM) I remember seeing a research piece about backs who get more than 400 carries in a season falling apart very quickly. Priest Holmes had some serious hip injury, didn't he? Running back is an absolutely brutal position to play physically...the magic number seems to be about 30 years of age when they begin declining... Edited October 28, 2009 by iamshack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 12:28 AM) Priest Holmes had some serious hip injury, didn't he? Running back is an absolutely brutal position to play physically...the magic number seems to be about 30 years of age when they begin declining... And that's why you see so many teams needing 2 good RB's in this day and age. And some teams like the Cowboys, need 3, considering the injury problems that Barber and Felix Jones have had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 28, 2009 -> 09:28 AM) Priest Holmes had some serious hip injury, didn't he? Running back is an absolutely brutal position to play physically...the magic number seems to be about 30 years of age when they begin declining... With Priest Holmes it was something with his neck. Kinda fluky actually. He probably could have played another 2-3 years if that never happened to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Oct 28, 2009 -> 11:30 AM) With Priest Holmes it was something with his neck. Kinda fluky actually. He probably could have played another 2-3 years if that never happened to him. He had a pretty bad hip condition as well, it cost him 2 games in 02 at the end of the season when you couldnt stop him. I beleive it was a similar condition to what Bo Jackson had(degenerative hip) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Oct 27, 2009 -> 11:05 PM) Amazing how top running backs just drop off from the face of the earth. Terrell Davis Shaun Alexander Priest Holmes Larry Johnson LaDanian Tomlinson Holmes and Davis both had injury issues which caused there career to end and both were relatively old too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) The Chiefs used to have an all, All-Pro offensive line. Losing them has been part of the problem for Larry Johnson. Edited October 28, 2009 by WilliamTell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 27, 2009 -> 11:36 AM) I really can't believe how much s*** Lovie is taking in this thread. Funny how everyone wants Lovie gone but the same people don't seem to be calling for Ozzie's head. Seems like they are awfully comparable to me... The difference is Ozzie was the manager of a team that won a Championship. Just like Ditka is still revered by most fans in this town (even if he wasn't a good coach). Ozzie will always and deservedly so have some love in this town because he was the manger of a team that hadn't won a Championship in 88 years. As a matter of fact the team only won a division title once in the 70's and once in the 80's. He was won more division titles in 5 years than most of the other managers had in their entire careers. Now, is Ozzie the reason he won them? No. But they occurred on his watch and he didn't manage poorly enough to prevent it. So right or wrong when you win a Championship with a team that has historically been a loser you will be given the benefit of the doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 27, 2009 -> 01:25 PM) I agree with a lot of this. I just happen to believe that in the NFL, you need to really stay away from making harsh judgments as things can look really bad or really good based on very little...Personally, I need to see more. I agree. I look at the end of the season. Did the team win more games than I though they would. Coaches are responsible for wins. Some are bad strategists but are good motivators. I think Lovie falls in this category. Most of the seasons I think the team has won more games than I thought they would so overall I think he has done pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Oct 27, 2009 -> 11:36 PM) I've seen ripping of Chris Williams in this thread, but Williams' scouting reports said that he was quick and athletic but not overpowering, a good pass blocker, but mediocre run blocker. Meaning he should be a LT, not an RT. Pace is playing LT mostly because of his name but Williams never profiled very well to be a RT. Square peg, round hole. Williams isnt the problem, and BOTH tackles are crappy run blockers, which isnt ideal. Pile on top of that the hole at LG and the aging C and the non-pass blocking RG and you have a ton of issues. If we have a good run blocking RT our running game would be alot better, and thats where I think people are confused about Williams. Its not that he is bad, its just he's in a bad spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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