And that's a Corpse Ball loser!!

[CanOfCorn]

If you ask most baseball scholars and reporters/media, they would take Jim Thome for the Hall of Fame over Edgar Martinez. Having said that, Edgar SHOULD make it, if not on the first ballot, sometime in the next 2-3 years.

 

And Bonds won't ever make it in...in fact, all the inflated HR numbers has made it a bit more difficult for some of the other players who weren't accused of cheating, like a Jeff Bagwell, to make it. It's so difficult to know who was doing what, exactly.

 

At any rate, Edgar was a professional hitter in the same way Harold Baines was, but NOT a slugger. Thome's in a different category.

 

I was just talking about shifts and the ability of certain players to have high AVGs even with the shift. Edgar would find the holes better than anyone.

[elrockinMT]

offensive corpse ball is true and that's bad enough, but losing on a 2 run homer by Coco Crisp is worse

[greg775]

And they're not taking away an entire half of the field, they're taking away an entire half of the infield that he shouldn't be using anyway. He goes oppo pretty frequently, but it's for power.

 

 

A liner to right isn't going to fall for a base hit the way the Royals played him. It's home run or nothing. I didn't say I dislike Thome, I just said as a fan the shift is frustrating to watch.

 

As far as the Royals, their bullpen arguably is as good or better than ours. I'm not the only person suggesting they might contend this year. Laugh all you want. They beat us 2 of 3 in our first meeting this year. We have some work to do if we are going to own them record-wise as we have the last many years. If we don't own the Royals,we're going to have to play a lot better against some other teams to have the same record as last year.

[MexSoxFan#1]

A liner to right isn't going to fall for a base hit the way the Royals played him. It's home run or nothing. I didn't say I dislike Thome, I just said as a fan the shift is frustrating to watch.

 

As far as the Royals, their bullpen arguably is as good or better than ours. I'm not the only person suggesting they might contend this year. Laugh all you want. They beat us 2 of 3 in our first meeting this year. We have some work to do if we are going to own them record-wise as we have the last many years. If we don't own the Royals,we're going to have to play a lot better against some other teams to have the same record as last year.

The Royals are still the Royals...if it werent for corpse ball,we would've swept them.

[caulfield12]

Well, the Yankees are roughing up Ponson, and I'm sure Sabathia will beat Horacio Ramirez tomorrow (not to mention that Guillen is now injured)...but if Bannister and Hochevar ever got their heads out of the a--es, they'd be a legitimate contender in our division.

[WCSox]

If you ask most baseball scholars and reporters/media, they would take Jim Thome for the Hall of Fame over Edgar Martinez. Having said that, Edgar SHOULD make it, if not on the first ballot, sometime in the next 2-3 years.

 

He only has 309 career HRs, 2247 hits, a good-but-not-stellar .312 average, and he played DH most of his career. Great guy who overcame a serious handicap (vision) to play at a high level, but not a HOFer in many people's books. Harold has far better numbers and he won't get in. Hell, I don't even think that Jeff Bagwell gets in.

 

And Bonds won't ever make it in...in fact, all the inflated HR numbers

 

I disagree with this as well. Even before he began roiding (winter of '98 by most accounts), he had three MVPs, 400 HRs, and almost 400 stolen bases. I could see voters not electing him until the second ballot, to "send a message," but the truth is that Barry was pretty much a lock before he used PEDs. I don't like the guy at all, but Cooperstown's credibility will take a massive hit if Barry's left out.

 

[caulfield12]

I think you might be underestimating how many former HOF players really dislike Bonds and don't want him anywhere near Cooperstown.

 

I agree with you, if Bonds went down in a plane crash (Clemente, although he already had 3000 hits) or lost his vision (like Kirby Puckett) around ten years ago, then there would still be no question that Bonds was a Hall of Famer.

 

Right now, Palmeiro, Sosa, McGwire and Clemens are all on the outside looking in...which isn't exactly fair to Sosa, because it was never proved that he did anything wrong, although everyone suspected and there were the obvious physical changes from his "Panther" days with the White Sox.

 

Not even sure what to make of Ivan Rodriguez...I guess he'll make it just based on the defensive impact he made on the game, but how much of his offensive output was HGH/steroids-related? He was in that same clubhouse with Juan Gonzalez and Rafael Palmeiro for many seasons, too.

Edited April 10, 2009 by caulfield12

[WCSox]

I think you might be underestimating how many former HOF players really dislike Bonds and don't want him anywhere near Cooperstown.

 

That may be true, but they don't vote. And many of them (hell, MOST of them) likely used amphetamines ("greenies") and other PEDs as well.

 

I'm sure that many HOFers and members of the HOF committee also intensely dislike Bonds on a personal level. That said, I still can't see Barry's mercurial personality blocking him from enshrinement. Like him or not, he was the greatest position player of his generation.

 

I agree with you, if Bonds went down in a plane crash (Clemente, although he already had 3000 hits) or lost his vision (like Kirby Puckett) around ten years ago, then there would still be no question that Bonds was a Hall of Famer.

 

That's kind of the crux of how I judge an obvious PED user's eligibility for Cooperstown. Find the point where they're obviously 'roiding, go back one year, and erase all of that player's numbers and other on-field achievements from that point forward. Pre-1998 Barry is a HOFer. Pre-1997 Roger Clemens is not.

 

Not even sure what to make of Ivan Rodriguez...I guess he'll make it just based on the defensive impact he made on the game, but how much of his offensive output was HGH/steroids-related? He was in that same clubhouse with Juan Gonzalez and Rafael Palmeiro for many seasons, too.

 

My guess is that Pudge still gets in. Inflated offensive numbers or not, his defensive skills were unparalleled, and what he did with the Marlins in the '03 playoffs was pretty remarkable. It also helps that Mike Piazza is his only contemporary at that position, and that there aren't many catchers in general in Cooperstown.

Edited April 10, 2009 by WCSox

[caulfield12]

Yeah, there aren't really any catchers on the horizon for the HOF.

 

Mauer, if he stays at catcher....maybe McCann, but it's way too early to start discussing him or Soto in that way.

 

Same thing with Russell Martin...those are probably the top four guys today.