southsideirish71 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 03:45 PM) Elijah Dukes? Really? And that Nationals aren't going to just give us Dukes, or the Astros Michael Bourn. We would be better off going after Blanco than that. Lillibridge hasn't proven he can be effective as an everyday player in AAA, let alone at the major league level. To think of moving Ramirez to CF when he's just getting comfortable there just isn't going to happen. The ONLY question is whether he will put Owens in the line-up tomorrow against Porcello and go w/ the straight platoon everyone envisioned at the beginning of ST. One would THINK after the way Owens played that BA would have another chance to start 5-6 times per week (and after Owens was removed from the 40 man roster), but who knows? We're just lucky one of our division rivals didn't claim Owens just to keep him in AAA...because it's far from clear that either Lillibridge or Getz can get the job done leading off. Why exactly are we lucky. A crappy fast player with no power what so ever. Other teams don't claim that, they hope we start that and lead him off. Then they can pound him inside with fastball as he can't handle them. They will move the 3rd baseman up to the lip of the grass and warn the 2nd baseman that lots of dribblers are coming his way. Owens is your starter until Wise comes back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 316 AB's 6 Homers 30 RBI's .228 Batting Average .284 OBP .361 SLG .645 OPS That's BA against right-handed pitchers over the last three years...why would anyone think he's suddenly going to be even a 725-750 OPS player against righties? We always say how bad Betemit is against LHP, but the OPS is almost EXACTLY the same over that time span. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 02:47 PM) Some (not all) of the biggest Anderson supporters read off Wise's career numbers as a reason why he's not worthwhile. Yet if you just do the same thing for Owens w/ his career numbers, it's not thaaat horrendous. At least not enough for the hate level it brings. Owens at .268/.321 in 381 at-bats in the majors....... Obviously it's not what you want in a leadoff hitter - but it gets so much hate in comparison to .221/.276 for BA. Owens cant get an extra base hit to save his life but he at least projects to be somewhat of a basestealer, essentially making some 'doubles' that way. Doesnt it pretty much come down to Jerry playing this week over Brian because you have less of a hole in your lineup that way? Plus the whole vs. RHP aspect. I think we face several righties in a row here. It will be interesting but I'm sure Owens bats #9 right? We've only had two hits from Wise, Getz and Lillibridge out of 30+ AB's so far from leadoff. I'm sure we have the worst AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS from the first spot compared to every major league team...so I don't see why starting Owens would be any worse. Getz is a 2 hitter, not a leadoff guy. Edited April 13, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 03:55 PM) We've only had two hits from Wise, Getz and Lillibridge out of 30+ AB's so far from leadoff. I'm sure we have the worst AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS from the first spot compared to every major league team...so I don't see why starting Owens would be any worse. Getz is a 2 hitter, not a leadoff guy. So Getz goes 1 for 9 in the leadoff spot over 3 games and that proves that he's no better than Owens? And what exactly disqualifies him from leadoff duty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 02:42 PM) So what kind of fail is it, when a guy can't start for your bad , can't hit worth a damn AAA team and he will come back here and immediately take over for Wise. Anderson is going to be back to the bench. Corrected for accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 02:58 PM) So Getz goes 1 for 9 in the leadoff spot over 3 games and that proves that he's no better than Owens? And what exactly disqualifies him from leadoff duty? It's just a hunch, just like with Wise...a feeling that Getz fits into this line-up and is much more comfortable batting 2nd, 8th or 9th. At least Owens is conditioned to hitting first. Maybe we'll catch lightning in a bottle while KW is trying to find another solution...or maybe Owens will play so badly that Ozzie has no choice but to play BA everyday, one of those three things will happen (hopefully). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Just give Getz a legit chance already, against righties and lefties, and start this lineup: Fields Getz Q Thome Dye Konerko AJP Missile BA Or switch Getz and Fields, and/or Thome and Dye. And don't change it for an effin' week. Lilli backs up BA and Getz. If Lilli continues to get as many or more PA's than Getz, I'm going to start calling him Our-New-Owens, or O-NO! for short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Usually, I'm a pretty calm poster, and a pretty big KW and Ozzie defender. However... f*** this idiotic decision. WTF are KW and Ozzie thinking here? I mean seriously, at LEAST go get someone who can hit in AAA, let alone the majors, like Kroeger or even Cook. Jerry Owens? Seriously? You STILL can't give Anderson, who is superior in just about every aspect of the game, a chance to start here? You WANT a guy with no arm playing CF? Godammit, son of a b****, f*** this cover-my-ass clique protection vendetta they have to put Owens out there when he ISN'T GOOD!!! All that said, I hope Owens does well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Not sure why, but that epic rant just made me laugh out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 where is this Ozzie saying that Owens will get bulk of playing time? I ASSUMED we'd go sunday lineup of Getz/Fields Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 04:12 PM) where is this Ozzie saying that Owens will get bulk of playing time? I ASSUMED we'd go sunday lineup of Getz/Fields I'm hoping you are right - Owens becomes the 4th OF. I'll believe it when I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 QUOTE (Jimmywins1 @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 02:56 PM) Not sure how long that'll keep him out, but the Tigers announcers just said that's what he's got. A separated shoulder will be any where from 4-8 weeks depending on the severity. 6-8 weeks is most likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 03:48 PM) Why exactly are we lucky. A crappy fast player with no power what so ever. Other teams don't claim that, they hope we start that and lead him off. Then they can pound him inside with fastball as he can't handle them. They will move the 3rd baseman up to the lip of the grass and warn the 2nd baseman that lots of dribblers are coming his way. Owens is your starter until Wise comes back. He suggested michael bourn also, what else do you really expect? Seems to be a trend of him liking players that make a team worse and not better. Edited April 13, 2009 by qwerty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 f***ing hell Kenny. How much could LA possibly want for Willits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 04:47 PM) Some (not all) of the biggest Anderson supporters read off Wise's career numbers as a reason why he's not worthwhile. Yet if you just do the same thing for Owens w/ his career numbers, it's not thaaat horrendous. At least not enough for the hate level it brings. Owens at .268/.321 in 381 at-bats in the majors....... Obviously it's not what you want in a leadoff hitter - but it gets so much hate in comparison to .221/.276 for BA. Owens cant get an extra base hit to save his life but he at least projects to be somewhat of a basestealer, essentially making some 'doubles' that way. Doesnt it pretty much come down to Jerry playing this week over Brian because you have less of a hole in your lineup that way? Plus the whole vs. RHP aspect. I think we face several righties in a row here. It will be interesting but I'm sure Owens bats #9 right? This drives me f***ing nuts... I already made an issue of this once today, but why is pointing out the fact that Wise is not good linked to Anderson manlove in the minds of so many? It's annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 04:22 PM) This drives me f***ing nuts... I already made an issue of this once today, but why is pointing out the fact that Wise is not good linked to Anderson manlove in the minds of so many? It's annoying. The very part you highlighted absolves me. I indicated "Some (not all) Anderson" people In your earlier rant, that's the qualification you had asked for. I actually read that and did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmywins1 Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) Most people have accepted that BA would hit basically .250/.300/.450 if given 600 AB's; however, Anderson actually has the upside to meet his impressive minor league numbers (.293/.364/.474, .838 OPS) and provides spectacular defense, which is important when playing next to Jermaine Dye and Carlos Quentin. Edited April 13, 2009 by Jimmywins1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 05:27 PM) The very part you highlighted absolves me. I indicated "Some (not all) Anderson" people In your earlier rant, that's the qualification you had asked for. I actually read that and did it. Point taken, what I'm saying is that someone that doesn't like Wise getting a lot of ABs and playing every day (i.e., me) isn't automatically someone that supports Anderson getting the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (lostfan @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 04:30 PM) Point taken, what I'm saying is that someone that doesn't like Wise getting a lot of ABs and playing every day (i.e., me) isn't automatically someone that supports Anderson getting the same. Yea. I think people get heated up for certain sides of this, but if polled almost 100% would say 'we dislike all options offensively at CF' Edited April 13, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 05:32 PM) Yea. I think people get heated up for certain sides of this, but if polled almost 100% would say 'we dislike all options offensively at CF' Agreed. It's a tallest-midget kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Jimmywins1 @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 04:27 PM) Most people have accepted that BA would hit basically .250/.300/.450 if given 600 AB's; however, Anderson actually has the upside to meet his impressive minor league numbers (.293/.364/.474, .838 OPS) and provides spectacular defense, which is important when playing next to Jermaine Dye and Carlos Quentin. I think the organization's point of view is "Brian's 27, he's had 600 at-bats at the major league level...and he doesnt solve our leadoff problem. So he's 4th OF for his defense until his offense does something towards becoming consistent." This challenge has been out there and phrased that way for him for awhile now. One can argue that he needs consistent at-bats to get right.... but obviously I think they dont want to experiment with him and forfeit some offense from each game. I dont think we talk about ceiling anymore at his age. It would have to be an odd Podsednik type late-20s career turnaround. Edited April 13, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Man there is like zero circumstance that should ever have Anderson batting leadoff, even if he was hitting like .265. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I'd rather see what Lillibridge can do in center before Owens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) .275 BA .323 OBP .320 SLG .643 OPS That's Jerry Owens career-wise against RHP. I'm not sure how that is so different from BA's averages against RHP over his career. Can we be assured that either Lillibridge (doubtful) or Getz (maybe, he's had a couple of 350 OBP's in the minors) will do significantly better than a .330 OBP? Yes, BA is a better defender, but he's not a leadoff hitter. If Getz/Lillibridge fail at this position, who do you want to use, Alexei Ramirez??? Edited April 13, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 04:49 PM) .275 BA .323 OBP .320 SLG .643 OPS That's Jerry Owens career-wise against RHP. I'm not sure how that is so different from BA's averages against RHP over his career. Yes, BA is a better defender, but he's not a leadoff hitter. If Getz/Lillibridge fail at this position, who do you want to use, Alexei Ramirez??? Jerry Owens should NEVER hit leadoff for the White Sox again regardless of who fails. You start Anderson in CF and hit him leadoff before you stick Owens back in that role. You do something proactive like acquiring a new, more talented player to fill your leadoff role. Owens is out of chances. You do not give the worst hitter on your team the most PA especially when he's giving you close to nothing in the field. He's a bad baseball player. And yes you hit Alexei at the top before Owens. Jerry Owens isn't even fast! He has no business hitting at the top of anyone's lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.