Will White Sox fans also boo BA if he goes 0/8?

[caulfield12]

DETROIT - Jerry Owens is scheduled to rejoin the White Sox before Tuesday's game at Detroit, but don't expect him to get an immediate shot at regaining the leadoff/center field job to Dewayne Wise in spring training.

 

The decision to purchase the contract of Owens, 28, who was 1-for-7 at Triple-A Charlotte, was made by general manager Ken Williams, according to manager Ozzie Guillen, after Wise was lost for at least six weeks after separating his right shoulder while making a diving catch of Ramon Santiago's drive.

 

But Brian Anderson, who drew two walks and stole two bases Monday, might get more of a shot at winning more playing time.

 

“Kenny made that decision because we need a center fielder right now," Guillen said of the Owens' promotion. "We’re going to start by keep playing with Brian. ... I have to see how (Owens) was doing because I don’t think he was doing too well in Triple-A, either.

 

"But when I got to the office, Kenny said (Owens) would be coming for the next couple of days and we'll see how he does. I need a true center field. Hopefully Brian does the job, if not, I’ll give Jerry a shot.’’

 

Williams and Guillen each expressed their disappointment that Owens didn't display more intensity during spring training, but both understood that Owens' personality isn't fiery. www.chicagotribune.com/sports

 

 

 

Unfortunately, we'll never get to find out, as all those games will be on the road, but I would be shocked if he was treated like poor Wise was by the fans. I guess this will be a fun couple of weeks...

 

We can all second-guess BA if he doesn't make an all-effort to dive for a ball (Wise would have laid out for that one!) or if he strikes out 7 times in 16 at-bats.

 

So the first argument will be (if he takes an 0 for today) will be that Porcello is one of the best young pitching prospects in the game, throws 95-99 MPH, is right-handed and BA has never faced him before, so it's advantage pitcher...everyone accept that argument so far?

 

By the way, I am now going to start calling him Brian Nikola Anderson...or just Nikola Anderson.

 

TUE: RHP Porcello (never faced Porcell, but will start against a RHP, good test of his bat speed against FB)

WED: RHP Galarraga (never faced Galarraga, but will start against a RHP)

 

Next phase...at Tampa Bay (wraparound series)...possible excuses: White Sox never play well in domed stadiums, BA is only 2 for 15 lifetime against current Rays' pitchers (inexplicably, both are against Sonnanstine, who I would expect him to struggle against the most, BA not familiar with starting pitchers, etc.)

 

THUR: RHP Jeff Niemann (lost 6-0 in last start, game Wise/Owens would ordinarily start)

FRI: RHP James Shields (never faced, co #1 starter for Rays, BA wouldn't ordinarily start)

SAT: LHP Scott Kazmir (here's where BA would "normally" start, even though he is 0 for 6 with 5 K's lifetime against Kazmir)

SUN: RHP Matt Garza (BA 0 for 2 with 2 K's lifetime, Ozzie would normally use Wise/Owens)

 

So that should be six starts in a row for BA...with four of the six being pitchers he (BA) has never faced before. Kazmir, the lone lefty in the Rays' rotation, has owned him so far. Sonnanstine, the pitcher who gives us fits, luckily misses us (but BA's 2/3 for lifetime against Sonny)

 

FINALLY, stage 3. If BA "survives" these six tough games on the road...then things SHOULD get easier in BALT.

 

TUE: LHP Mark Hendrickson (BA 0 for 3 lifetime)

WED: RHP Jeremy Guthrie (BA 0 for 3 lifetime)

THUR: RHP Adam Eaton (BA has never faced)

 

So BA should have at least 9 starts in a row, with only 2 of them coming against lefties...and both lefties are ones that he struggles with, or tends to struggle with in the case of Hendrickson. I think that's a pretty fair test to see where he's at in 9 games...yes or no?

 

Of course, I can see the argument already. He's either not faced any of these 9 pitchers coming up OR he has never had a single hit (or bit of success) against any of them. Yes? So anticipated argument: Ozzie is deliberately putting BA in a position to fail and he shouldn't be judged on his results against these 9 upcoming pitchers he will face.

 

That gets us to TOR and SEA at home. BA hasn't faced any of the Jays' starters, but he is, of course, a Felix Hernandez killer (2/5 lifetime with 2 homers and 3 RBI's) and a blistering 6 for 13 with a homer off Carlos Silva. He also has a hit apiece against Bedard (1/6, 2B) and Washburn (1/4, HR). Unfortunately, these games are not AT Seattle!!!

 

So the question for BA supporters, if he gets 13 starts in the next 15 games...is that enough to determine if he (BA) should remain the starter?

 

Personally, these arguments about Wise/Anderson/Owens are starting to remind me of "you're either with us or against us" (meaning the terrorists or the good 'ol USA)...but looking forward to see what happens. I guess that puts me in the terrorist camp for defending Wise and/or Owens. So be it.

Edited April 14, 2009 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Thought I would start collecting some of the most interesting Wise/Owens comments....last time I checked, nobody had ever talked about "killing" Brian Anderson or wishing that he got injured. In all fairness, I started one of the anti-Wise threads (Special thread dedicated to shots at Wise) but this whole situation is really starting to be aggravating if you say ANYTHING positive about Wise/Owens.

 

EXAMPLE 1

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 03:04 PM)

How many times can you "kill" this guy?

 

"It requires silver bullets and a wooden stake through the heart. And decapitate him for good measure." (stan bahnsen)

 

EXAMPLE 2

f*** this idiotic decision. WTF are KW and Ozzie thinking here? I mean seriously, at LEAST go get someone who can hit in AAA, let alone the majors, like Kroeger or even Cook. Jerry Owens? Seriously? You STILL can't give Anderson, who is superior in just about every aspect of the game, a chance to start here? You WANT a guy with no arm playing CF?

 

Godammit, son of a b****, f*** this cover-my-ass clique protection vendetta they have to put Owens out there when he ISN'T GOOD!!!

 

Of course, the irony of the situation is everyone assuming the "conspiracy" was still in by Ozzie against BA and that Owens would actually be starting today in Detroit, coming off a 1/7 start in Charlotte with 3-4 strikeouts.

[lostfan]

tl;dr

[Kyyle23]

Thought I would start collecting some of the most interesting Wise/Owens comments....last time I checked, nobody had ever talked about "killing" Brian Anderson or wishing that he got injured. In all fairness, I started one of the anti-Wise threads (Special thread dedicated to shots at Wise) but this whole situation is really starting to be aggravating if you say ANYTHING positive about Wise/Owens.

 

EXAMPLE 1

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 03:04 PM)

How many times can you "kill" this guy?

 

"It requires silver bullets and a wooden stake through the heart. And decapitate him for good measure." (stan bahnsen)

 

EXAMPLE 2

f*** this idiotic decision. WTF are KW and Ozzie thinking here? I mean seriously, at LEAST go get someone who can hit in AAA, let alone the majors, like Kroeger or even Cook. Jerry Owens? Seriously? You STILL can't give Anderson, who is superior in just about every aspect of the game, a chance to start here? You WANT a guy with no arm playing CF?

 

Godammit, son of a b****, f*** this cover-my-ass clique protection vendetta they have to put Owens out there when he ISN'T GOOD!!!

 

Of course, the irony of the situation is everyone assuming the "conspiracy" was still in by Ozzie against BA and that Owens would actually be starting today in Detroit, coming off a 1/7 start in Charlotte with 3-4 strikeouts.

 

 

Come on, I never wished injuries on Owens, I put kill in quotations to make sure that I wasnt implying that i want him hurt, the only thing I meant by it was that he keeps coming back.

[TheChrisSamsa]

I'd be upset if he were batting leadoff... I think that was more of the issue than it being Wise, but the fact that it was an obvious misplacement in the lineup.

 

That said, I hope BA does well so we can see a DW/BA platoon when Wise gets healthy. I liked what I was seeing from Wise once the team broke the early-season slump, and I liked BA taking a few walks and stealing those bases yesterday. Neither of them are all stars, but they can be functional major league players, unlike Jerry Owens.

[Kalapse]

tl;dr

Seriously. This is just f***ing ridiculous.

 

I'll simply address the title and leave it at that. Would I personally have booed Wise? No, I think it's stupid personally. Do I understand why people booed him? Kinda. Would he have been booed had he been hitting 9th to start the year? s*** no. Were they actually booing Wise himself or the horrible decision to hit him leadoff on a title contender? Well that would be the latter and I'm 100% certain of that. Kenny preached OBP at the top all offseason then plugged a sub-.300 OBP player in that spot, he failed miserably and I suppose this was the best way for the fans to show their displeasure with him.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Seriously. This is just f***ing ridiculous.

 

[103 mph screwball]

Wise did not get booed for going 0-8. Ozzie got booed for batting him leadoff when his OBP made him an obviously poor choice and the majority of the fans believed that the team would be better of with BA's D in center.

 

Props to Wise on that catch and I hope he fully recovers to win a World Series ring as the White Sox 4th outfielder. I respect Wise's effort and I think he can help on a 25 man.

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

I'll go back to the same point then...

 

If Ozzie put BA in the leadoff spot and he failed with three bunt attempts (pretty likely) and struck out the same number of times (over the course of two games), would people still boo him like they booed Wise?

 

If not, why? Why would BA NOT be booed and Wise was mercilessly booed?

 

Because BA "saved" the season with his catch at the end of the blackout game? Because he was going crazy with Rowand on the dugout steps in 2005? Because he came up in our farm system?

 

Most fans would agree that NEITHER BA nor Wise would be suited for leadoff spot on a contending ballclub, CORRECT?

Edited April 14, 2009 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

I'll go back to the same point then...

 

If Ozzie put BA in the leadoff spot and he failed with three bunt attempts (pretty likely) and struck out the same number of times (over the course of two games), would people still boo him like they booed Wise?

 

If not, why? Why would BA NOT be booed and Wise was mercilessly booed?

 

Because BA "saved" the season with his catch at the end of the blackout game? Because he was going crazy with Rowand on the dugout steps in 2005? Because he came up in our farm system?

 

Most fans would agree that NEITHER BA nor Wise would be suited for leadoff spot on a contending ballclub, CORRECT?

Frankly, yes. If Ozzie put Anderson in the leadoff spot and he did exactly what Wise had done, yeah, he ought to have been booed. Anyone in that boat ought to have been booed.

[ScottyDo]

I never have and never will boo my own team because it's not at all productive...BUT! A) nobody was booing Wise, its not his fault he was leading off, B ) it was opening day so whatever fans feel is magnified way more than it would be on almost any other day, and C) if brian anderson looks as lost at the plate as Wise did, there's a good chance he gets booed too

Edited April 14, 2009 by ScottyDo

[caulfield12]

No...I mean, would BA be booed?

 

Because it's not so easy for me to differentiate "Ozzie booing" and "Wise booing" like so many are doing.

 

In other words, I am sure there would be muted boos or no boos at all for BA in the same situation...but why should it be different for him than Wise or Owens?

[Kalapse]

If Anderson is thrust into the leadoff spot and sucks he'll get booed.

[Kyyle23]

No...I mean, would BA be booed?

 

Because it's not so easy for me to differentiate "Ozzie booing" and "Wise booing" like so many are doing.

 

In other words, I am sure there would be muted boos or no boos at all for BA in the same situation...but why should it be different for him than Wise or Owens?

 

Why does this fantasy scenario that will never happen(because BA will not lead off) need to be clarified so much? I think you have gotten your answer already, it is the same thing with BA as it is with Wise, some would boo and some would not. People want to see productivity at the plate in an important spot in the game, and the booing would encompass BA/Wise not producing as well as Ozzie/KW putting out a player who was not prepared or sufficient to lead off a game.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

No, he's white

 

Just kidding!

[SouthsideDon48]

I'll go back to the same point then...

 

If Ozzie put BA in the leadoff spot and he failed with three bunt attempts (pretty likely) and struck out the same number of times (over the course of two games), would people still boo him like they booed Wise?

 

If not, why? Why would BA NOT be booed and Wise was mercilessly booed?

 

Because BA "saved" the season with his catch at the end of the blackout game? Because he was going crazy with Rowand on the dugout steps in 2005? Because he came up in our farm system?

 

Most fans would agree that NEITHER BA nor Wise would be suited for leadoff spot on a contending ballclub, CORRECT?

 

I actually think a lot of hardcore Sox fans, like on this board, treat black players a lot more harsher than white players. That's honestly the impression I get from how a lot of people act on this board.

 

If a player is black, and he sucks/struggles, he gets booed and hated mercilessly. But if a player is white, and he sucks/struggles, get doesn't get booed as much and gets more benefit of doubt and their other attributes are played up as "positives" to outweigh the negatives of their suckitude.

 

It seems like too many white White Sox fans cheer for white players even though they suck just because they "identify" with the player just because he's white and a young womanizer with funny stories about getting drunk at bars. Yet, if the player is black, the white fans don't "identify" with him just because of his race, which is ridiculous.

 

Also, I think race plays a big role in why a white guy like Joe Crede has more of a cult-like following than a black player like Jermaine Dye. One would argue that both players should have an equal cult-like following, but the majority of white fans, such on this board, were devastated when Crede left the Sox via free agency and they have no problem whatsoever to see Dye being traded or leave as a free agent when his contract is up.

 

The double-standards on race in this board is ridiculous. A lot of people will deny that race plays a role, but I don't buy it. I'm calling it out and the issue here is that race plays a subconscious role in how some fans decide to support a player or not.

 

The issue of race is the only way I can make sense of how some fans are always clamoring for Anderson and ostracizing Wise despite the fact that both of them suck equally.

 

So yes, I do think Anderson SHOULD be booed if he performs badly like Wise, but there's a strange adoration complex going on with White Sox fans for Anderson.

[lostfan]

I actually think a lot of hardcore Sox fans, like on this board, treat black players a lot more harsher than white players. That's honestly the impression I get from how a lot of people act on this board.

 

If a player is black, and he sucks/struggles, he gets booed and hated mercilessly. But if a player is white, and he sucks/struggles, get doesn't get booed as much and gets more benefit of doubt and their other attributes are played up as "positives" to outweigh the negatives of their suckitude.

 

It seems like too many white White Sox fans cheer for white players even though they suck just because they "identify" with the player just because he's white and a young womanizer with funny stories about getting drunk at bars. Yet, if the player is black, the white fans don't "identify" with him just because of his race, which is ridiculous.

 

Also, I think race plays a big role in why a white guy like Joe Crede has more of a cult-like following than a black player like Jermaine Dye. One would argue that both players should have an equal cult-like following, but the majority of white fans, such on this board, were devastated when Crede left the Sox via free agency and they have no problem whatsoever to see Dye being traded or leave as a free agent when his contract is up.

 

The double-standards on race in this board is ridiculous. A lot of people will deny that race plays a role, but I don't buy it. I'm calling it out and the issue here is that race plays a subconscious role in how some fans decide to support a player or not.

 

The issue of race is the only way I can make sense of how some fans are always clamoring for Anderson and ostracizing Wise despite the fact that both of them suck equally.

 

So yes, I do think Anderson SHOULD be booed if he performs badly like Wise, but there's a strange adoration complex going on with White Sox fans for Anderson.

Get that s*** out of here

 

edit: I'm black, I don't like Wise, I don't particularly like Anderson, and Jermaine Dye is and has been my favorite White Sox.

Edited April 14, 2009 by lostfan

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I actually think a lot of hardcore Sox fans, like on this board, treat black players a lot more harsher than white players. That's honestly the impression I get from how a lot of people act on this board.

 

If a player is black, and he sucks/struggles, he gets booed and hated mercilessly. But if a player is white, and he sucks/struggles, get doesn't get booed as much and gets more benefit of doubt and their other attributes are played up as "positives" to outweigh the negatives of their suckitude.

 

It seems like too many white White Sox fans cheer for white players even though they suck just because they "identify" with the player just because he's white and a young womanizer with funny stories about getting drunk at bars. Yet, if the player is black, the white fans don't "identify" with him just because of his race, which is ridiculous.

 

Also, I think race plays a big role in why a white guy like Joe Crede has more of a cult-like following than a black player like Jermaine Dye. One would argue that both players should have an equal cult-like following, but the majority of white fans, such on this board, were devastated when Crede left the Sox via free agency and they have no problem whatsoever to see Dye being traded or leave as a free agent when his contract is up.

 

The double-standards on race in this board is ridiculous. A lot of people will deny that race plays a role, but I don't buy it. I'm calling it out and the issue here is that race plays a subconscious role in how some fans decide to support a player or not.

 

The issue of race is the only way I can make sense of how some fans are always clamoring for Anderson and ostracizing Wise despite the fact that both of them suck equally.

 

So yes, I do think Anderson SHOULD be booed if he performs badly like Wise, but there's a strange adoration complex going on with White Sox fans for Anderson.

 

 

GMAFB

 

Good lord...

[SouthsideDon48]

No, he's white

 

Just kidding!

 

I know you were kidding, but I actually think that's the answer.

[kapkomet]

I know you were kidding, but I actually think that's the answer.

Now I know I can safely ignore every opinion you may have from this point forward. If I wasn't sure before now, I certainly do know for sure now. What a worthless piece of s*** post that was. NOTE: not saying you are personally, but that opinion is absolutely worthless. If you think this board is "racist", go post somewhere else.

[SouthsideDon48]

Get that s*** out of here

 

edit: I'm black, I don't like Wise, I don't particularly like Anderson, and Jermaine Dye is and has been my favorite White Sox.

 

Hey, sorry to offend you, but that's honestly how I feel. I hope I don't get censored for it, for expressing an unpopular opinion, but I was simply answering Caulfield's question with an answer that I've always suspected all along.

 

I think more people need to be a little more racial-conscious. A lot of white fans seem to "go easy" on white players, and that was the impression I've gotten from people on this board and people I've spoke to in person. One person I spoke to in person actually said to me that he liked Anderson, Broadway, and Crede because they "remind him of himself as if he was a player".

 

By the way, I'm white, and I have a black girlfriend.

[lostfan]

Hey, sorry to offend you, but that's honestly how I feel. I hope I don't get censored for it, for expressing an unpopular opinion, but I was simply answering Caulfield's question with an answer that I've always suspected all along.

 

I think more people need to be a little more racial-conscious. A lot of white fans seem to "go easy" on white players, and that was the impression I've gotten from people on this board and people I've spoke to in person. One person I spoke to in person actually said to me that he liked Anderson, Broadway, and Crede because they "remind him of himself as if he was a player".

 

By the way, I'm white, and I have a black girlfriend.

eh, as long as you know you're leaving yourself wide open to get flamed, go for it.

[daa84]

im not really going to agree or disagree with anyone here, and for the record i am white, and this is probably a post for a different thread and different discussion, but i actually do think there is a subconscious difference in the way black/latin players are treated by fans vs. white players

[kapkomet]

Hey, sorry to offend you, but that's honestly how I feel. I hope I don't get censored for it, for expressing an unpopular opinion, but I was simply answering Caulfield's question with an answer that I've always suspected all along.

 

I think more people need to be a little more racial-conscious. A lot of white fans seem to "go easy" on white players, and that was the impression I've gotten from people on this board and people I've spoke to in person. One person I spoke to in person actually said to me that he liked Anderson, Broadway, and Crede because they "remind him of himself as if he was a player".

 

By the way, I'm white, and I have a black girlfriend.

 

So what? Now people are "racist"? You are basing this on "one person" saying this, and you have a black girlfriend? Good for you and her if you're happy, but that makes no difference that your opinion is absolutely ridiculous. Dye gets mentioned for trading because he's almost 40. BA is 26. I think there's JUUUUUST a bit of difference there.

 

Me thinks you're just posting over the top stuff to make an impression, but whatever.

[SouthsideDon48]

Now I know I can safely ignore every opinion you may have from this point forward. If I wasn't sure before now, I certainly do know for sure now. What a worthless piece of s*** post that was. NOTE: not saying you are personally, but that opinion is absolutely worthless. If you think this board is "racist", go post somewhere else.

 

I'm not saying the board is racist, nowhere did I say in my post the word "racist".

 

For better clarification, I think a better term would be "inherently biased".

 

That's it, just biased behavior.

 

Being biased and racist are two totally different things.