Will White Sox fans also boo BA if he goes 0/8?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Now I know I can safely ignore every opinion you may have from this point forward. If I wasn't sure before now, I certainly do know for sure now. What a worthless piece of s*** post that was. NOTE: not saying you are personally, but that opinion is absolutely worthless. If you think this board is "racist", go post somewhere else.

 

My apologies for steering the thread that way. I only meant it jokingly.

 

But, since I feel I deserve some of the blame, I will defend him a little bit and agree that, it's not completely crazy, and there might be a tiny little bit of truth, that identifying with a player may at times sway us just a tiny little bit in liking such player, and I don't think that's really being racist nor is it the case for everyone.

 

BUT, NO this board is NOT racist, and I do not think anyone will ever make that claim. I'm not black, and I have a HUGE man-crush on Dye, as I'm sure a huge majority of this board does. I'm not Cuban, yet I LUV Contreras and Alexei, just like most of us do. Ultimately, we will judge our guys by what they do on the field.

 

Again, my apologies for derailing the thread. Let's carry on with bashing/defending ba for what he does on the field.

[Princess Dye]

To those attacking SouthsideDon with no real substance behind their defense.... let me ask this:

 

What are your thoughts of Brian Scalabrine and his popularity in Boston? Granted, that is taken to kind of a circus level where they're almost making fun of him......

 

....but if you scale it back it helps inform the Crede vs. Dye thing. Both those guys are quiet personality wise, so there has to be some reason why there's a difference in the way they're treated. Both were clutch guys, one perhaps more so in some of the biggest moments of the franchise's history.

 

One has a longer stretch of consistent, important numbers put up (granted w/ more health)

 

Yet the other undeniably has that cult status...to a substantially greater degree I would say.

 

 

 

I dont think of this as "most fans are racist." It's just that race affects what we do even despite our intentions, b/c the country has such a history with it. It's engrained in us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not gonna say that SouthsideDon's argument is without holes, but how bout take on this one: Wise was booed, some say, as a proxy-boo of the front office and Ozzie. He was an unproven leadoff guy yet thrust out there.

 

Then why no booing of Getz? Fewer previous major league at-bats than Wise. Their most recent year of minor league numbers were comparable if I remember correctly. Getz is still a sign that this front office under-filled the roster.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Princess Dye

[ThunderBolt]

The race card, really? I don't give a damn that Wise and Owens are black, i care because they're bad at baseball, and they play for a team that i love.

[kapkomet]

I'm not saying the board is racist, nowhere did I say in my post the word "racist".

 

For better clarification, I think a better term would be "inherently biased".

 

That's it, just biased behavior.

 

Being biased and racist are two totally different things.

You say people "judge according to race". That's being "racist".

 

Whatever. We all know what you mean. I've said my piece of your opinion, and I think it's over the top ridiculous.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

This is getting ugly quick. Let's not have to send this to the Buster.

 

I'm not saying the board is racist, nowhere did I say in my post the word "racist".

 

For better clarification, I think a better term would be "inherently biased".

 

That's it, just biased behavior.

 

Being biased and racist are two totally different things.

 

They are not "totally different", they are identical - biased in regards to race IS racism.

 

[kapkomet]

To those attacking SouthsideDon with no real substance behind their defense.... let me ask this:

 

What are your thoughts of Brian Scalabrine and his popularity in Boston? Granted, that is taken to kind of a circus level where they're almost making fun of him......

 

....but if you scale it back it feeds into the Crede vs. Dye thing. Both those guys are quiet personality wise, so there has to be some reason why there's a difference in the way they're treated. Both were clutch guys, one perhaps more so in some of the biggest moments of the franchise's history.

 

Yet the other undeniably has that cult status...to a substantially greater degree I would say.

 

 

 

I dont think of this as "most fans are racist." It's just that race affects what we do even despite our intentions, b/c the country has such a history with it. It's engrained in us.

Who?

 

And while I may not have "real substance", I know that I do not think in "black and white". I think in terms of performance, but I can only speak for myself.

[SouthsideDon48]

eh, as long as you know you're leaving yourself wide open to get flamed, go for it.

 

Eh, thanks for the warning. If people want to flame me, they can go ahead. It's not going to bother me because if people get so defensive over me giving an honest opinion, then that kind of make me wonder why they're getting so defensive, as if it struck a nerve or something.

 

I wasn't trying to get anyone riled up, it's just silly how upset people get when people make objective statements.

[rafacosta]

I actually think a lot of hardcore Sox fans, like on this board, treat black players a lot more harsher than white players. That's honestly the impression I get from how a lot of people act on this board.

 

If a player is black, and he sucks/struggles, he gets booed and hated mercilessly. But if a player is white, and he sucks/struggles, get doesn't get booed as much and gets more benefit of doubt and their other attributes are played up as "positives" to outweigh the negatives of their suckitude.

 

It seems like too many white White Sox fans cheer for white players even though they suck just because they "identify" with the player just because he's white and a young womanizer with funny stories about getting drunk at bars. Yet, if the player is black, the white fans don't "identify" with him just because of his race, which is ridiculous.

 

Also, I think race plays a big role in why a white guy like Joe Crede has more of a cult-like following than a black player like Jermaine Dye. One would argue that both players should have an equal cult-like following, but the majority of white fans, such on this board, were devastated when Crede left the Sox via free agency and they have no problem whatsoever to see Dye being traded or leave as a free agent when his contract is up.

 

The double-standards on race in this board is ridiculous. A lot of people will deny that race plays a role, but I don't buy it. I'm calling it out and the issue here is that race plays a subconscious role in how some fans decide to support a player or not.

 

The issue of race is the only way I can make sense of how some fans are always clamoring for Anderson and ostracizing Wise despite the fact that both of them suck equally.

 

So yes, I do think Anderson SHOULD be booed if he performs badly like Wise, but there's a strange adoration complex going on with White Sox fans for Anderson.

I kinda agree with you on this...this is the same with Latin players.

 

[ChiSox_Sonix]

To those attacking SouthsideDon with no real substance behind their defense.... let me ask this:

 

What are your thoughts of Brian Scalabrine and his popularity in Boston? Granted, that is taken to kind of a circus level where they're almost making fun of him......

 

....but if you scale it back it feeds into the Crede vs. Dye thing. Both those guys are quiet personality wise, so there has to be some reason why there's a difference in the way they're treated.

 

 

 

I dont think of this as "Sox fans are racist." It's just that race affects what we do even despite our intentions, b/c the country has such a history with it. It's engrained in us.

 

 

Yes, because it couldnt be due to the fact that Crede is the best defensive player we've had here in over a decade or the fact that he has also been one of our most clutch players.

 

I'm surprised this is news to you, but Crede was bashed here more than almost any Sox player for his long swing, pop ups etc the past several years.

 

There is nothing to dislike about JD. But the guy is slow, doesnt possess great defense or arm anymore, and is pretty bland personality-wise. JD also hasnt drawn near the ire that Crede has gotten here at times. I think that whole comparison between the two because of their skin color is absolutely baseless.

[lostfan]

To those attacking SouthsideDon with no real substance behind their defense.... let me ask this:

 

What are your thoughts of Brian Scalabrine and his popularity in Boston? Granted, that is taken to kind of a circus level where they're almost making fun of him......

 

....but if you scale it back it feeds into the Crede vs. Dye thing. Both those guys are quiet personality wise, so there has to be some reason why there's a difference in the way they're treated. Both were clutch guys, one perhaps more so in some of the biggest moments of the franchise's history.

 

Yet the other undeniably has that cult status.

 

 

 

I dont think of this as "most fans are racist." It's just that race affects what we do even despite our intentions, b/c the country has such a history with it. It's engrained in us.

I don't know what you're getting at with the Crede vs. Dye thing. Crede actually became somewhat divisive and polarizing but the vast majority of fans still appreciated what he did for the org. If you're suggesting he is more popular than Dye, I don't know where you're getting that from either. Sox fans love the hell out of Dye even though he is brutal in RF these days. People don't suggest trading him because they don't want him here, they suggest it because baseball is a business and they wanted some value for the team.

[kapkomet]

I kinda agree with you on this...this is the same with Latin players.

I just really find a hard time believeing you all think this is true.

[NorthSideSox72]

Eh, thanks for the warning. If people want to flame me, they can go ahead. It's not going to bother me because if people get so defensive over me giving an honest opinion, then that kind of make me wonder why they're getting so defensive, as if it struck a nerve or something.

 

I wasn't trying to get anyone riled up, it's just silly how upset people get when people make objective statements.

You just said the board behaves in a racist fashion. How do you NOT expect that to create some negative reactions?

 

[fathom]

People favor Crede over Dye because he came up in the organization...we had heard about him for over a decade. I think the White Sox fan base is fantastic with race relations.

[lostfan]

I just don't see a difference though, if Dye was traded to, say, the Red Sox tomorrow (regardless of whether they actually needed him is beside the point) and came back to Chicago to play, he'd get treated the exact same way Crede did, tribute video, ovation, etc. Maybe even more.

[SouthsideDon48]

So what? Now people are "racist"? You are basing this on "one person" saying this, and you have a black girlfriend? Good for you and her if you're happy, but that makes no difference that your opinion is absolutely ridiculous. Dye gets mentioned for trading because he's almost 40. BA is 26. I think there's JUUUUUST a bit of difference there.

 

Me thinks you're just posting over the top stuff to make an impression, but whatever.

 

I'm not posting anything over the top, race subjects like this is always going through my mind. I'm always looking at the bigger picture, and sometimes people might not like the bigger picture even though it might be close to the truth.

 

And no, I'm not trying to create an impression. I've been here since August, why would I feel the need to make an impression if I've been here that long? Just because I share an opinion that's unpopular doesn't mean I'm trying to make an impression.

 

As I'm typing this on my cell phone, I'm just laying down waiting for the White Sox game to come on.

[NorthSideSox72]

I'm not posting anything over the top, race subjects like this is always going through my mind. I'm always looking at the bigger picture, and sometimes people might not like the bigger picture even though it might be close to the truth.

 

And no, I'm not trying to create an impression. I've been here since August, why would I feel the need to make an impression if I've been here that long? Just because I share an opinion that's unpopular doesn't mean I'm trying to make an impression.

 

As I'm typing this on my cell phone, I'm just laying down waiting for the White Sox game to come on.

Then perhaps your ire about racism should be directed into the mirror.

 

[southsider2k5]

I actually think a lot of hardcore Sox fans, like on this board, treat black players a lot more harsher than white players. That's honestly the impression I get from how a lot of people act on this board.

 

If a player is black, and he sucks/struggles, he gets booed and hated mercilessly. But if a player is white, and he sucks/struggles, get doesn't get booed as much and gets more benefit of doubt and their other attributes are played up as "positives" to outweigh the negatives of their suckitude.

 

It seems like too many white White Sox fans cheer for white players even though they suck just because they "identify" with the player just because he's white and a young womanizer with funny stories about getting drunk at bars. Yet, if the player is black, the white fans don't "identify" with him just because of his race, which is ridiculous.

 

Also, I think race plays a big role in why a white guy like Joe Crede has more of a cult-like following than a black player like Jermaine Dye. One would argue that both players should have an equal cult-like following, but the majority of white fans, such on this board, were devastated when Crede left the Sox via free agency and they have no problem whatsoever to see Dye being traded or leave as a free agent when his contract is up.

 

The double-standards on race in this board is ridiculous. A lot of people will deny that race plays a role, but I don't buy it. I'm calling it out and the issue here is that race plays a subconscious role in how some fans decide to support a player or not.

 

The issue of race is the only way I can make sense of how some fans are always clamoring for Anderson and ostracizing Wise despite the fact that both of them suck equally.

 

So yes, I do think Anderson SHOULD be booed if he performs badly like Wise, but there's a strange adoration complex going on with White Sox fans for Anderson.

 

We did this already, and I went back and listed many of the players, coaches, and staff that are not "white" but have been loved by Sox fans wholeheartedly. You pretty much ignored the post back then, so I was hoping you dropped this silly notion, but I guess not.

 

Sox fans as a whole love Ozzie Guillen and hated Terry Bevington. You won't hear many fans who look fondly on the Ron Schuler era, yet Kenny Williams gets a whole lotta love around these parts. If it was just a white thing, explain the hate that Jon Garland used to get? You bring up Joe Crede, but I remember the days when his name was mud around these parts and people wanted him traded or released. If we judge races differently how come the most beloved player in White Sox history is Frank Thomas, and not Paul Konerko or Carlton Fisk? Why do the old timers still rave about Aparicio and Gary Peters? Why is Harold Baines number retired on the Sox wall, and not Robin Ventura? Why weren't Sox fans wearing Hory Kow T-shirts when Tadahito Iguchi or Shingo Takatsu was here?

 

Plainly put, your theory is castle of garbage build on sand. There is nothing to actually hold that trash up for any amount of time.

[Kyyle23]

all i can say about this thread is WHOA NELLIE

[Princess Dye]

Well this is where I differ from the southsidedon posts because Dye being traded at this age has no bearing on anything.

 

 

 

I'm white, and I think it's pretty obvious that a lot of franchises have a situation where there are second or third tier talent white players that are seen as this hardworking, grinder class......

 

.....and there are players of color that fit that same bill and aren't embraced as easily.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with those that say Crede has taken his lumps on this board - I guess my point is less in reference to the people posting here as opposed to the people booing at US Cellular. I think the type of person that posts here is (in many cases) different than the majority of US Cellular attendees. This is just a feeling I get though.

 

 

all i can say about this thread is WHOA NELLIE

 

Also I'm kind of surprised that so few people here want to touch the topic, some saying send it to Filibuster. I dont see the danger in merely talking.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Princess Dye

[southsider2k5]

I kinda agree with you on this...this is the same with Latin players.

 

What latin player has gotten harsh treatment from Sox fans that was unfair?

[kapkomet]

To those attacking SouthsideDon with no real substance behind their defense.... let me ask this:

 

What are your thoughts of Brian Scalabrine and his popularity in Boston? Granted, that is taken to kind of a circus level where they're almost making fun of him......

 

....but if you scale it back it helps inform the Crede vs. Dye thing. Both those guys are quiet personality wise, so there has to be some reason why there's a difference in the way they're treated. Both were clutch guys, one perhaps more so in some of the biggest moments of the franchise's history.

 

One has a longer stretch of consistent, important numbers put up (granted w/ more health)

 

Yet the other undeniably has that cult status...to a substantially greater degree I would say.

 

 

 

I dont think of this as "most fans are racist." It's just that race affects what we do even despite our intentions, b/c the country has such a history with it. It's engrained in us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not gonna say that SouthsideDon's argument is without holes, but how bout take on this one: Wise was booed, some say, as a proxy-boo of the front office and Ozzie. He was an unproven leadoff guy yet thrust out there.

 

Then why no booing of Getz? Fewer previous major league at-bats than Wise. Their most recent year of minor league numbers were comparable if I remember correctly. Getz is still a sign that this front office under-filled the roster.

 

Because, again, Dweezy has been playing professional baseball for 15 years and has had no success at it. Getz is basically a rookie. BIG difference in where they stand. People can put up with "growing pains", they can't put up with proven "crap" - and I'm talking on a professional baseball playing ability.

 

[lostfan]

What latin player has gotten harsh treatment from Sox fans that was unfair?

I think he was going more along the lines of "favoritism" than negative bias.

[SouthsideDon48]

I kinda agree with you on this...this is the same with Latin players.

 

The way people treated Uribe comes to mind.

 

Uribe's defense in the infield is as good as Anderson's defense in the outfield.

 

And both has similarily-frustrating at-bat performances.

[fathom]

The Red Sox, Astros, Rockies and Cubs message boards should be having this talk....not the White Sox.

Edited April 14, 2009 by fathom

[Kalapse]

I never do tire of being called racist.

 

I'm just glad someone said it. There's been a s*** load of beating around the bush the past few days, at least have the balls to call us racist.