Are We Looking to Trade for a CF'er?

[103 mph screwball]

JR to KW: I'm not happy with the CF situation.

KW: I'm not either. The price for a CF is crazy. I take personal responsibility.

JR: What about Aaron? Can we pry him away from the Giants?

KW: I thought we agreed that he's not worth the cash. Besides, I'm right at budget.

JR: There is too much talent on this team to not try to win it again. I'm not getting any younger. Get it done Kenny. I'll get the money.

KW: I'll call San Fran right now.

[Dick Allen]

JR to KW: I'm not happy with the CF situation.

KW: I'm not either. The price for a CF is crazy. I take personal responsibility.

JR: What about Aaron? Can we pry him away from the Giants?

KW: I thought we agreed that he's not worth the cash. Besides, I'm right at budget.

JR: There is too much talent on this team to not try to win it again. I'm not getting any younger. Get it done Kenny. I'll get the money.

KW: I'll call San Fran right now.

The only problem with your post is there are about 5 fantasies in the conversion. The only realistic quote is -I thought we agreed that he's not worth the cash. Besides, I'm right at budget and maybe:

JR to KW: I'm not happy with the CF situation.

[caulfield12]

If JR and KW had that conversation, it SHOULD have been in the offseason.

 

It would have been simple to add Juan Cruz and CoCo Crisp...yes, we would have lost a draft pick for Cruz, but that would have been the best possible solution...and avoided the mess we are in right now, where we might have to give up some prospects from our Top 10 in order to remedy the situation.

 

Abreu, Penny, Orlando Hudson, Baldelli, etc., were available for pennies (not 50 cents or even 75 KW) on the dollar. We wouldn't have even had to save on electricity to make it work. Heck, even Josh Anderson would seem like a better solution right now.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

JR to KW: I'm not happy with the CF situation.

KW: I'm not either. The price for a CF is crazy. I take personal responsibility.

JR: What about Aaron? Can we pry him away from the Giants?

KW: I thought we agreed that he's not worth the cash. Besides, I'm right at budget.

JR: There is too much talent on this team to not try to win it again. I'm not getting any younger. Get it done Kenny. I'll get the money.

KW: I'll call San Fran right now.

It probably would be more like:

 

 

JR to KW: I'm not happy with the CF situation.

KW: I'm not either. The price for a CF is crazy. I can't spend $1 if all I have is $.50.

JR: What about Aaron? Can we pry him away from the Giants?

KW: I thought we agreed that he's not worth the cash. Besides, I'm right at budget.

JR: That's right. What was I thinking? Wise is hurt, Brian has struggled, Jerry Owens should be selling insurance, there has to be someone, anyone we can sign for next to nothing.

 

KW: I'll call Scott Podsednik right now. Our fans still dream about 2005. They won't realize that he's almost as bad as the others.

JR: Great idea. As long as I run the show, you will be taken care of.

[bigklita]

We're putting the band back together

Together? No way...

We're on a mission from God

 

"We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline."

 

[Balta1701]

If JR and KW had that conversation, it SHOULD have been in the offseason.

 

It would have been simple to add Juan Cruz and CoCo Crisp...yes, we would have lost a draft pick for Cruz, but that would have been the best possible solution...and avoided the mess we are in right now, where we might have to give up some prospects from our Top 10 in order to remedy the situation.

 

Abreu, Penny, Orlando Hudson, Baldelli, etc., were available for pennies (not 50 cents or even 75 KW) on the dollar. We wouldn't have even had to save on electricity to make it work. Heck, even Josh Anderson would seem like a better solution right now.

Couple notes in reply.

 

First...for Juan Cruz, the Royals had to give up their 2nd round pick. We'd have had to give up our first round pick. It's like giving up #50 versus giving up #20. Juan Cruz simply wasn't worth that pick even if he was signing for the League Minimum.

 

Second, in terms of Coco Crisp, the Royals gave up a 27 year old, pre-arbitration reliever who had an ERA under 3.00 last year to get him. The Sox simply have no one who fits that bill. Jenks was our only pre-arb reliever last year who had an ERA under 3.00. Poreda might have worked but he's never pitched in the big leagues, and I'm not sure I'd have done Poreda for Crisp.

 

Orlando Hudson...also costs our first round pick, may not have wanted to play CF, might have been willing to do that deal though even with the draft pick. Baldelli...decent option except he can't play more than 1/2 games even if he's 100% healthy. Bobby Abreu is not a CF.

 

Pretending these facts don't exist is not an option. Note - not once did I say we couldn't afford any of these guys. That may have played a part in it, but it's not the only reason.

[Dick Allen]

Couple notes in reply.

 

First...for Juan Cruz, the Royals had to give up their 2nd round pick. We'd have had to give up our first round pick. It's like giving up #50 versus giving up #20. Juan Cruz simply wasn't worth that pick even if he was signing for the League Minimum.

 

Second, in terms of Coco Crisp, the Royals gave up a 27 year old, pre-arbitration reliever who had an ERA under 3.00 last year to get him. The Sox simply have no one who fits that bill. Jenks was our only pre-arb reliever last year who had an ERA under 3.00. Poreda might have worked but he's never pitched in the big leagues, and I'm not sure I'd have done Poreda for Crisp.

 

Orlando Hudson...also costs our first round pick, may not have wanted to play CF, might have been willing to do that deal though even with the draft pick. Baldelli...decent option except he can't play more than 1/2 games even if he's 100% healthy. Bobby Abreu is not a CF.

 

Pretending these facts don't exist is not an option. Note - not once did I say we couldn't afford any of these guys. That may have played a part in it, but it's not the only reason.

Juan Cruz, I'd rather sign him and give up the first round pick which will save you more than $1 million right there.

 

As far as Crisp, just because the Royals traded a reliever for Crisp doesn't mean they wouldn't have gone for something else. The White Sox overestimated Wise and Owens.

 

Orlando Hudson was going to where the money was. If the White Sox offered him a higher guarantee than LA with the same incentives, I don't think there's any question he would be willing to play CF. In fact, Steve Stone said more than a couple teams were looking at Hudson as a CF.

 

We will never know the exact circumstances, but if the White Sox organization doesn't have the pieces to pick up players that will help them fill holes and doesn't have the money to sign players who can help them fill holes when they are signing for pennies on the dollar, then there is an organizational problem that needs to be fixed.

[CanOfCorn]

Juan Cruz, I'd rather sign him and give up the first round pick which will save you more than $1 million right there.

 

As far as Crisp, just because the Royals traded a reliever for Crisp doesn't mean they wouldn't have gone for something else. The White Sox overestimated Wise and Owens.

 

Orlando Hudson was going to where the money was. If the White Sox offered him a higher guarantee than LA with the same incentives, I don't think there's any question he would be willing to play CF. In fact, Steve Stone said more than a couple teams were looking at Hudson as a CF.

 

We will never know the exact circumstances, but if the White Sox organization doesn't have the pieces to pick up players that will help them fill holes and doesn't have the money to sign players who can help them fill holes when they are signing for pennies on the dollar, then there is an organizational problem that needs to be fixed.

 

Only one team can sign a player, does that mean the other 31 teams have organizational problems too? Everyone has a price in their head that they won't go over (except the Yankees), sooooo...you and all the others can try to figure out the organizational problems for 95% of the league.

[caulfield12]

Couple notes in reply.

 

First...for Juan Cruz, the Royals had to give up their 2nd round pick. We'd have had to give up our first round pick. It's like giving up #50 versus giving up #20. Juan Cruz simply wasn't worth that pick even if he was signing for the League Minimum.

 

Second, in terms of Coco Crisp, the Royals gave up a 27 year old, pre-arbitration reliever who had an ERA under 3.00 last year to get him. The Sox simply have no one who fits that bill. Jenks was our only pre-arb reliever last year who had an ERA under 3.00. Poreda might have worked but he's never pitched in the big leagues, and I'm not sure I'd have done Poreda for Crisp.

 

Orlando Hudson...also costs our first round pick, may not have wanted to play CF, might have been willing to do that deal though even with the draft pick. Baldelli...decent option except he can't play more than 1/2 games even if he's 100% healthy. Bobby Abreu is not a CF.

 

Pretending these facts don't exist is not an option. Note - not once did I say we couldn't afford any of these guys. That may have played a part in it, but it's not the only reason.

 

 

This is totally dependent on which mode the White Sox are in with their spending. If they are drafting and signing Danks in the 7th or arguably overpaying (in hindsight) for Viciedo....we can take someone just as good with our other 3 high picks in the first 2-3 rounds. See Detroit Tigers, Rick Porcello, for one example. In fact, the White Sox, before recent years, were atrocious drafting when they had any pick 20 and beyond in the first round.

 

With Cruz, Crisp or Hudson, they had the chance to have an IMMEDIATE impact on this season, which has USUALLY been KW's standard operating procedure, at least until the this past off-season.

 

Nobody could argue coming into 2009 that KW put the best possible team to compete for the World Series out there on the field for Opening Day...there were just too many holes. Now if KW doesn't make a move in May/June/July...he's going to be held accountable by the fans in terms of season tickets and attendance for next year. There's no doubt that the division was there for the taking, but neither the Twins nor the White Sox added significant pieces. The Tigers, Indians and Royals have at least made efforts at improvement (especially the Royals and Indians...the Tigers, it was addition by subtraction and going with younger arms).

 

Maybe, just maybe...they're assuming they can bill the infusion of all the Birmingham hitting talent and Poreda for 2009 as like making 2-3 major acquisitions in the FA market, but I think there will be a time well before then when Beckham is obviously ready and/or Getz is struggling or not comfortable in the leadoff role.

 

Until this season, when KW had a chance to "win now," he always was willing to take advantage...if he doesn't make a move bigger than Pods in Charlotte, then the odds of us winning the division "as is" would be about 5-15%, at best. Especially if Lillibridge gets anywhere close to 250-300 AB's.

 

If they're going to take another McCulloch or Broadway instead of someone with 1/2/3 starter upside like Poreda, then I would just as soon have Juan Cruz and win this season, instead of waiting for someone who will make a marginal major league impact down the line.

Edited April 16, 2009 by caulfield12

[The Ginger Kid]

(somewhere in Japan, Shingo logs on to Travelocity for flights to Chicago)

[caulfield12]

Takatsu was a one trick pony.

 

Once they started to lay off that frisbee, he would get hammered when he had to come with the fastball for strikes behind in the count.

 

If the ex-Mariners closer was available (Kaz Sazaki) or Yu Darvish, that would be different. The Korean pitchers would be even more difficult to pry away from their leagues. Choo was an exception because he was signed directly out of high school by the M's.

[WinningUgly85]

two words

 

Nate McLouth

 

:headbang :headbang :headbang

Edited April 16, 2009 by WinningUgly85

[GreatScott82]

wow i seriously thought the Rowand talk has officially ended for good when he signed on with SF and now this happens.... Damn it Cowley!!

[Dick Allen]

Only one team can sign a player, does that mean the other 31 teams have organizational problems too? Everyone has a price in their head that they won't go over (except the Yankees), sooooo...you and all the others can try to figure out the organizational problems for 95% of the league.

The White Sox have used Dewayne Wise and Brent Lillibridge in the leadoff hole in 2009. Look at their histories and ask yourself what qualifies them to leadoff in the major leagues? White Sox leadoff hitters are 2 for 30 on the season. The White Sox also slashed payroll by the second biggest amount in baseball despite playing 3 extra home games last season, having season ticket sales increase and raising ticket, parking and concession prices. Only SD slashed more, and that's because of a messy divorce. The team also has Contreras $10 million, Dye $10 million net, Thome $13 million and Dotel $6.5 million comingoff the books after this season. Thats almost $40 million. Maybe you think $5-6 million guaranteed for Orlando Hudson is way out of line, but its quite obvious KW took too much stock in Jerry Owens and Dewayne Wise, and the White Sox are going young and cheap. The market for players who can help out was very suppressed this offseason. Cruz was ignored. Might not need him, but if Dotel and Linebrink don't hold up, he might have made sense, and theres a lot better chance he can help the White Sox win than the 20th pick in the draft in June. Crisp was a definite upgrade, but apparently the White Sox had no interest. There were no bidding wars for these players. If, and if you read it carefully, the White Sox don't have the parts to acquire a Coco Crisp, I said that wasn't necessarily true, AND they can't spend the money at last offseason's bargain basement prices to bring in help, then they have big time organizational problems. No team is perfect, and the White Sox wouldn't be perfect if they picked up these 3, but they would be a lot better. Just thank your lucky stars the Sox are in the Central division.

Edited April 16, 2009 by Dick Allen

[NorthSideSox72]

Getz won the leadoff job but got hurt, in case we all forgot. Give that kid a month and I think we'll find he's plenty good enough in that role. Certainly better than any of the CF's we have. Any CF we play does NOT have to be a leadoff hitter.

 

[Dick Allen]

Getz won the leadoff job but got hurt, in case we all forgot. Give that kid a month and I think we'll find he's plenty good enough in that role. Certainly better than any of the CF's we have. Any CF we play does NOT have to be a leadoff hitter.

Getz is leading off tonight. He didn't "win" the leadoff job. He was put there after the Wise experiment was turning ugly both on the field and in the stands. The problem with the CF has to be the leadoff guy was that's how the White Sox were looking at it. Apparently, when Getz is out, the 2B has to be the lead off hitter now. Lillibridge is less qualified than Wise.

Edited April 16, 2009 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

The Hudson deal COULD be worth as MUCH as $8 million, with $3.6 million guaranteed. However, Hudson is a big character guy and would have been a perfect fit in our clubhouse, IMO.

 

I'm not going to get into whether or not Getz was/is ready, or Beckham for that matter, but Hudson at 2B or in CF would have been a huge upgrade over what we have for this particular season. He's very similar in terms of demeanor and personality to Dye...one of those guys (unlike Elijah Dukes) that you NEVER hear anything bad about.

 

The C.A.T.C.H. Foundation was founded by Orlando Hudson, a 7 year MLB veteran, All Star and 3 times Gold Glove Recipient. The 501c3 non-profit foundation is headquartered in Darlington, SC, and takes pride in its continued commitment to provide resources and a support system for youth coping with Autism.

 

Orlando Hudson is committed to bringing autism awareness to the African-American community. An active volunteer for organizations which promote autism research advancement, Hudson created the C.A.T.C.H. (Curing Autism through Change and Hope) Foundation, to provide resources and a support system for youth coping with autism.

 

The C.A.T.C.H. Foundation has served youth with Autism through their annual Autism Walk; Strike Out! Bowling Fundraiser; Homerun Holiday Christmas Gifting Ceremony and providing local organizations and schools with financial assistance for youth coping with Autism.

 

The C.A.T.C.H. Foundation’s 2009 goals include expanding their menu of services as well as presenting grant funding to deserving Autism oriented programs. In addition, the foundation has plans to do a National tour to generate funds and more awareness of the disorder.

[/i]

[caulfield12]

Our best leadoff hitter is in Birmingham.

 

As soon as KW becomes conditioned to the idea....which will be after 15-20 games of Getz trying to do too much and getting out of his game....then we might have to bring up Beckham for lack of any other logical options within the organization.

 

Frank Thomas started his career on August 2nd of the year after he was drafted...Ventura had to wait until September.

 

Beckham won't be better than Thomas and probably won't be better than Ventura either (and Ventura was one of the most acclaimed college baseball players in history at OSU), but we have a tremendous need for him this season if we want to win the AL Central.

Edited April 16, 2009 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

The Hudson deal COULD be worth as MUCH as $8 million, with $3.6 million guaranteed. However, Hudson is a big character guy and would have been a perfect fit in our clubhouse, IMO.

 

I'm not going to get into whether or not Getz was/is ready, or Beckham for that matter, but Hudson at 2B or in CF would have been a huge upgrade over what we have for this particular season. He's very similar in terms of demeanor and personality to Dye...one of those guys (unlike Elijah Dukes) that you NEVER hear anything bad about.

 

The C.A.T.C.H. Foundation was founded by Orlando Hudson, a 7 year MLB veteran, All Star and 3 times Gold Glove Recipient. The 501c3 non-profit foundation is headquartered in Darlington, SC, and takes pride in its continued commitment to provide resources and a support system for youth coping with Autism.

 

Orlando Hudson is committed to bringing autism awareness to the African-American community. An active volunteer for organizations which promote autism research advancement, Hudson created the C.A.T.C.H. (Curing Autism through Change and Hope) Foundation, to provide resources and a support system for youth coping with autism.

 

The C.A.T.C.H. Foundation has served youth with Autism through their annual Autism Walk; Strike Out! Bowling Fundraiser; Homerun Holiday Christmas Gifting Ceremony and providing local organizations and schools with financial assistance for youth coping with Autism.

 

The C.A.T.C.H. Foundation’s 2009 goals include expanding their menu of services as well as presenting grant funding to deserving Autism oriented programs. In addition, the foundation has plans to do a National tour to generate funds and more awareness of the disorder.

[/i]

And while he's not an ideal leadoff hitter, he's at least as good as Orlando Cabrera and before last season started if OC told KW he would sign a 1 year extension for $8 million, that would have been a done deal.

[BigSqwert]

Anybody care to trade for Fukudome to play CF?

[Balta1701]

Anybody care to trade for Fukudome to play CF?

ARGH

[BigSqwert]

ARGH

I honestly don't watch much Cub baseball but is he that much worse than what we have?

[Soxfest]

Hell No to Rowand, I am so tired of his overratted ass and his overpriced contract..............Eat it Giants.

[caulfield12]

ARGH with Captain Jack accent from Pirates of the Caribbean...first, the Cubs wouldn't trade him now anyway, the time to have "bought low" on him would have been coming into this season, but I think the Cubs were smart enough to let their "paper loss" return in value, knowing that Reed Johnson wasn't the long-term solution as an everyday major league CFer.

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Our best leadoff hitter is in Birmingham.

 

As soon as KW becomes conditioned to the idea....which will be after 15-20 games of Getz trying to do too much and getting out of his game....then we might have to bring up Beckham for lack of any other logical options within the organization.

 

Frank Thomas started his career on August 2nd of the year after he was drafted...Ventura had to wait until September.

 

Beckham won't be better than Thomas and probably won't be better than Ventura either (and Ventura was one of the most acclaimed college baseball players in history at OSU), but we have a tremendous need for him this season if we want to win the AL Central.

You simply can't say that yet. Bringing up Beckham now and leading off with him has a 90% chance of him stunting his development and flopping at the job. He's had less than a month of professional baseball experience - this is a bad idea.