Rail Transit improvements thread

[BigSqwert]

I'd say lets start small and build it over time. 3 tracks in the first 10 years: Boston/NY, Chicago/Cleveland, LA/SF

[HuskyCaucasian]

I'd say lets start small and build it over time. 3 tracks in the first 10 years: Boston/NY, Chicago/Cleveland, LA/SF

That's not unreasonable.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think it's all about scale. It's MUCH easier to build high speed rail in countries like Japan, because it's a much smaller country. It's would be like running a total high speed rail network in say... California, which would be possible. And in Europe, the countries are the size of American states. So, the scale is VERY different.

 

To create a true high speed rail system coast to coast, city to city, would cost an unfathomable amount of money. I would argue parts of our current system were only cost efficient to build in the 1800's because they used cheap immigrant labor. Good luck trying that today.

Size as cost is part of it.

 

You also have to keep in mind the legal differences - in order to acquire land for right of way in this country, you have to go through painstaking negotiations, and then pay a lot of money for it, due to the takings clause of 5A.

 

And yet another factor is that Europe has been developing their current system for decades.

 

And yet another factor is that the spending in European countries by the government is much higher as a portion of the economy, as goes with their much higher levels of taxation.

 

And yet another factor is the cultural setting in this country built around cars, and therefore the proportion of money spent on highways and roads, relative to rail, is so much higher, and its hard to change that.

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

And yet another factor is the cultural setting in this country built around cars, and therefore the proportion of money spent on highways and roads, relative to rail, is so much higher, and its hard to change that.

I think I've mentioned this before. My wife sells Europen rail for a living. So, she knows the European rail system better than most Europeans, i think. She can get you a route from Madrid to Salzburg in under 20 seconds. She knows it that well.

 

Recently, we had family travel to Europe on vacation and they said "when we get to Germany, we'll just rent a car". My wife just thought "you have no idea how Europe works, do you?". Didnt say it, but thought it.

[kapkomet]

I think I've mentioned this before. My wife sells Europen rail for a living. So, she knows the European rail system better than most Europeans, i think. She can get you a route from Madrid to Salzburg in under 20 seconds. She knows it that well.

 

Recently, we had family travel to Europe on vacation and they said "when we get to Germany, we'll just rent a car". My wife just thought "you have no idea how Europe works, do you?". Didnt say it, but thought it.

Why would most people in the US understand how Europe works? Just sayin'. There's no reason to thumb your nose at it.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I think I've mentioned this before. My wife sells Europen rail for a living. So, she knows the European rail system better than most Europeans, i think. She can get you a route from Madrid to Salzburg in under 20 seconds. She knows it that well.

 

Recently, we had family travel to Europe on vacation and they said "when we get to Germany, we'll just rent a car". My wife just thought "you have no idea how Europe works, do you?". Didnt say it, but thought it.

 

 

The European rail system is awesome. Having lived there I know a lot about it too. However, sometimes it still is better to rent a car depending on what you want to do.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Why would most people in the US understand how Europe works?

That's exactly my point. It's two completely different styles. And she wasnt thumbing her nose. She nicely explained to them how it works.

[Balta1701]

One other thing about the Obama plan I'd like to note...one of the most obvious, profitable lines for HSR would still be hooking up Vegas and L.A. Long straight corridor through desert (aside from that annoying fault), enormous amount of traffic between the 2 cities, esp. on weekends, and if you hooked up S.F. and Phoenix to L.A. (and maybe Denver to Phoenix) you'd have a major green economic route covering most of the population centers in the S.W.

 

The one obvious line that's missing from the Obama plan? LA to Vegas. It's almost as if the opposition party decided that idea sounded funny so they had to make a big stink about it a few weeks back.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

One other thing about the Obama plan I'd like to note...one of the most obvious, profitable lines for HSR would still be hooking up Vegas and L.A. Long straight corridor through desert (aside from that annoying fault), enormous amount of traffic between the 2 cities, esp. on weekends, and if you hooked up S.F. and Phoenix to L.A. (and maybe Denver to Phoenix) you'd have a major green economic route covering most of the population centers in the S.W.

 

The one obvious line that's missing from the Obama plan? LA to Vegas. It's almost as if the opposition party decided that idea sounded funny so they had to make a big stink about it a few weeks back.

 

 

I was just out in Vegas and Lake Havasu in November. A Vegas-Phoenix line would get used too.

[CanOfCorn]

The other factor about Europe...the old cities aren't built for cars, driving or parking AND gas prices are much higher. So it's cheaper with train travel.

 

As for the hubs...Chicago is probably the best place to start. Why? Central location. Try to spider out from Chicago to the places mentioned above. Detroit, Indy, St. Louis, Minneapolis. If it works out and more people are using it, it's going to be a lot cheaper to start from here and go to NY, LA or Houston. I say, let's do it. I'll even chip in a few pesos.

Edited April 21, 2009 by CanOfCorn

[kapkomet]

That's exactly my point. It's two completely different styles. And she wasnt thumbing her nose. She nicely explained to them how it works.

Gotcha. Europe has a wonderful system.

 

Speaking of which, airfare to Germany from Dallas ROUND TRIP is $360. If I were working, I would be there next weekend for a weekend trip with that kind of price.

[southsider2k5]

The other factor about Europe...the old cities aren't built for cars, driving or parking AND gas prices are much higher. So it's cheaper with train travel.

 

As for the hubs...Chicago is probably the best place to start. Why? Central location. Try to spider out from Chicago to the places mentioned above. Detroit, Indy, St. Louis, Minneapolis. If it works out and more people are using it, it's going to be a lot cheaper to start from here and go to NY, LA or Houston. I say, let's do it. I'll even chip in a few pesos.

 

I would actually argue the east coast is the best place because there are so many people in a small area, much like Europe. The less population density, the less chance something like this will work. That is going to be the biggest problem with high speed in the US is that our population is spread over such a wide area, it isn't going to be nearly as effective as a place like Japan where everyone is right on top of each other.

[NorthSideSox72]

I would actually argue the east coast is the best place because there are so many people in a small area, much like Europe. The less population density, the less chance something like this will work. That is going to be the biggest problem with high speed in the US is that our population is spread over such a wide area, it isn't going to be nearly as effective as a place like Japan where everyone is right on top of each other.

East coast is already home to the one place where high speed intercity rail already works profitably - the Amtrak Acela.

 

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Gotcha. Europe has a wonderful system.

 

Speaking of which, airfare to Germany from Dallas ROUND TRIP is $360. If I were working, I would be there next weekend for a weekend trip with that kind of price.

 

NYC to Zurich is $425 in late July. I'm looking into that and then I'd just take a train to where I'd actually wanna go. It's odd b/c that trip is hundreds of dollars less than any other city in Europe i've compared it to.

[Cknolls]

We can't even get Metra to run efficient train service (Heritage Corridor). 2 trains/dialy in and out is not good service. The problem is the big freight haulers, BNI CSX etc., own the right of ways. Until the gov't steps in and mandates some change on their part there will be no change in the service that is provided.

[NorthSideSox72]

We can't even get Metra to run efficient train service (Heritage Corridor). 2 trains/dialy in and out is not good service. The problem is the big freight haulers, BNI CSX etc., own the right of ways. Until the gov't steps in and mandates some change on their part there will be no change in the service that is provided.

I've said before, I really like the general idea of what the Brits did. They turned the rails into a utility-like structure, where they are not owned by businesses - the lines are cooperatively owned and operated by everyone using them, and no one gets special precedence. Decisions on schedule conflicts and what not are actually made at a higher level, involving all parties. Users pay into the maintenance "pot". It would work far better than what we have now.

 

[Rex Kickass]

Gotcha. Europe has a wonderful system.

 

Speaking of which, airfare to Germany from Dallas ROUND TRIP is $360. If I were working, I would be there next weekend for a weekend trip with that kind of price.

 

Virgin Atlantic and British Airways both have had NYC-London fares that when you take away taxes and fees are $76-99 roundtrip in the last month.

[lostfan]

Gotcha. Europe has a wonderful system.

 

Speaking of which, airfare to Germany from Dallas ROUND TRIP is $360. If I were working, I would be there next weekend for a weekend trip with that kind of price.

lol, not used to seeing you say this.

 

We can't even get Metra to run efficient train service (Heritage Corridor). 2 trains/dialy in and out is not good service. The problem is the big freight haulers, BNI CSX etc., own the right of ways. Until the gov't steps in and mandates some change on their part there will be no change in the service that is provided.

And I'm not used to seeing you say this either.

Edited April 23, 2009 by lostfan

[Texsox]

As part of an adventure it looks like I will be traveling on the Texas Eagle from Chicago to Austin or San Antonio with my daughter. We will get a sleeperette for the trip. Takes 30 hours to Austin, 33 hours to San Antonio. No earthly idea why Austin to San Antonio should take 3 hours. That's a one hour or so drive.

[BigSqwert]

As part of an adventure it looks like I will be traveling on the Texas Eagle from Chicago to Austin or San Antonio with my daughter. We will get a sleeperette for the trip. Takes 30 hours to Austin, 33 hours to San Antonio. No earthly idea why Austin to San Antonio should take 3 hours. That's a one hour or so drive.

Maybe the train runs on I-35 for that part of the trip. Crappiest traffic in Texas!

[CanOfCorn]

Maybe the train runs on I-35 for that part of the trip. Crappiest traffic in Texas!

 

Busiest stretch of highway in Texas. And Tex, maybe you make stops at Texas State...the outlet stores...the snake farm...Gruene Hall...and the race track. Oh, and Fiesta Texas.

[Texsox]

Busiest stretch of highway in Texas. And Tex, maybe you make stops at Texas State...the outlet stores...the snake farm...Gruene Hall...and the race track. Oh, and Fiesta Texas.

 

That's kind of what I was thinking. I'm working on getting off in Austin and just driving back home from there. But I will more than likely be flying up to Illinois from San Antonio.

[kapkomet]

Maybe the train runs on I-35 for that part of the trip. Crappiest traffic in Texas!

I-35 sucks. Bad.

 

[CanOfCorn]

I-35 sucks. Bad.

 

That Texas Triangle would be a great place for high-speed rail. Dallas - Austin - San Antonio - Houston. I've done that drive and I-35, I-45 and I-10...not so good.

[kapkomet]

That Texas Triangle would be a great place for high-speed rail. Dallas - Austin - San Antonio - Houston. I've done that drive and I-35, I-45 and I-10...not so good.

And there's quite a bit of open land to get it done.