CanOfCorn Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 So, after I put my son to bed last night, I come downstairs and flip on the Hawks game. At a break in the action, I flip to the Sox game on CSNa...and see... A half empty stadium! Now, I understand there's a recession. And I understand that this is Florida and besides for college football and Dolphins games, they aren't the most attentive fans, but COME ON! This is a young, exciting team that JUST WENT TO THE WORLD SERIES! Sure, that stadium sucks, but so what? People fill crappy stadiums all the time (see: Wrigley)! The title of this thread is the first thought that came to mind. (Second...beat the piss out of this team) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I agree. Tampa does not deserve the Rays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Baseball and Florida is something that will never really work IMO. It's not a baseball state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Neither Florida team gets any level of fan support, which makes it hilarious that they both want new stadiums. Last night there were all of 3000 people in the stands, and half were Sox fans. Florida should lose at least one team, if not both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Florida has two of the most fun teams in baseball, embarrassing that they can't get any support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) Agreed. They should move to Las Vegas. Throw Texas in the East, as they probably belong there more than the West. Wham bam. Edited April 17, 2009 by Steve9347 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FedEx227 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) I believe I saw a half empty stadium on our side of town our 2nd game of the year too. No, they don't draw well but are we as Sox fans really able to call teams out on lack of attendance when we ourselves have struggled with it for years? I agree, there isn't much excuse but I can see why they struggle. Terrible location and an awful misjudging on their fan base. They thought the older people would be attrached to it and they just aren't. Also they built in St. Petersburg and if you've ever been to the town it couldn't be in a worse location, definitely would be better suited in downtown Tampa or even in Orlando. Edited April 17, 2009 by FedEx227 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 09:08 AM) Agreed. They should move to Las Vegas. Throw Texas in the East, as they probably belong there more than the West. Wham bam. Vegas right now couldn't support a team if you personally paid for their stadium. They're harder hit by the meltdowns than almost anywhere in the country. Florida included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FedEx227 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Plus do you really want a team based in Vegas? Don't you run into similar problems that you have in Florida aka not a solid season ticket base. No doubt you'll get people on vacations that stop to see a game but without a guaranteed season ticket base a team in Vegas is essentially worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 QUOTE (FedEx227 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 11:17 AM) I believe I saw a half empty stadium on our side of town our 2nd game of the year too. No, they don't draw well but are we as Sox fans really able to call teams out on lack of attendance when we ourselves have struggled with it for years? 3,000 in a dome at 7pm local time is different than 18,000 in 30 degree weather during the day on a workday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 QUOTE (FedEx227 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 12:17 PM) I believe I saw a half empty stadium on our side of town our 2nd game of the year too. No, they don't draw well but are we as Sox fans really able to call teams out on lack of attendance when we ourselves have struggled with it for years? I agree, there isn't much excuse but I can see why they struggle. Terrible location and an awful misjudging on their fan base. They thought the older people would be attrached to it and they just aren't. Also they built in St. Petersburg and if you've ever been to the town it couldn't be in a worse location, definitely would be better suited in downtown Tampa or even in Orlando. 22,817 on a Wednesday afternoon and 13,803 on a Thursday night are the same? ok, Mr. 14 posts. I smell a cub fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 Actually, it was a night game here...but I was there and it was coooold. Not Tampa, FL in a dome cold...but cooooold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 QUOTE (rangercal @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 12:30 PM) 22,817 on a Wednesday afternoon and 13,803 on a Thursday night are the same? ok, Mr. 14 posts. I smell a cub fan AJ, leave the n00bs alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 12:40 PM) Actually, it was a night game here...but I was there and it was coooold. Not Tampa, FL in a dome cold...but cooooold. true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 12:42 PM) AJ, leave the n00bs alone. He's not really a n00b. I'm just suspect of someone who averages 5 posts a year (a big % of that today) bashing the Sox attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Baseball will never work in Vegas. Florida sports fans suck, but I still think that both clubs could get decent fan support if they had better stadiums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nunnigan Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Who cares? How does Rays fans not showing up for home games affect the Sox? If they choose not to go, its their problem... And for FedEx, he's not a Cubs fan. I've seen him post on a different Sox message board. Just because someone has a low post count, like myself, doesnt automaticlly make him a Cubs fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FedEx227 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 QUOTE (rangercal @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 11:47 AM) He's not really a n00b. I'm just suspect of someone who averages 5 posts a year (a big % of that today) bashing the Sox attendance. hahaha... nah I wish. I got banned from WSI a few weeks ago so I've had to use this and Palehosed as my main source of White Sox talk, so that's all. I probably had 2 posts from the date I joined until a week ago. But that's irrelevant...no, I'm not bashing Sox attendance in fact I hate that type of stuff but facts are facts. They don't draw very well, and neither do we in the April-May months. We're a great summer and walk-up attendance team, no doubt... that's our bread and butter. I just don't think we as Sox fans have a right to bash other teams attendance when we aren't really the toast of the league attedance-wise either. At least not without explaining a few of the reasons why their attedance is as pitiful as it is. It's not just "THEIR FANS AREN'T GOOD!!!" there's a ton that goes into their putrid attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Tampa's stadium is in an awful spot. But if anything they should be moved, not contracted. As for the Marlins, i'm willing to give Miami a shot still since they are getting a new stadium in a couple years. A few years after they move in there and they still aren't drawing? Yeah ok, then maybe they should be moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 QUOTE (FedEx227 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 01:13 PM) hahaha... nah I wish. I got banned from WSI a few weeks ago so I've had to use this and Palehosed as my main source of White Sox talk, so that's all. I probably had 2 posts from the date I joined until a week ago. But that's irrelevant...no, I'm not bashing Sox attendance in fact I hate that type of stuff but facts are facts. They don't draw very well, and neither do we in the April-May months. We're a great summer and walk-up attendance team, no doubt... that's our bread and butter. I just don't think we as Sox fans have a right to bash other teams attendance when we aren't really the toast of the league attedance-wise either. At least not without explaining a few of the reasons why their attedance is as pitiful as it is. It's not just "THEIR FANS AREN'T GOOD!!!" there's a ton that goes into their putrid attendance. You're missing the point. Both Florida teams have been to and/or won the World Series, yet the Rays and Marlins are not getting the attendance (and therefore revenue) boost that teams usually get during and after successful seasons. The bad stadiums/locations is a mitigating factor, but if you don't draw when you are winning, when will you draw? The teams have been there long enough to develop a fan base, and the "new stadium boost" in attendance has not been as big a factor in recent years, especially if the team isn't winning. So it's hard to claim that new stadiums will solve the attendance problems for these teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 How about a third baseball team in Illinois? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FedEx227 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Disco72 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 12:21 PM) You're missing the point. Both Florida teams have been to and/or won the World Series, yet the Rays and Marlins are not getting the attendance (and therefore revenue) boost that teams usually get during and after successful seasons. The bad stadiums/locations is a mitigating factor, but if you don't draw when you are winning, when will you draw? The teams have been there long enough to develop a fan base, and the "new stadium boost" in attendance has not been as big a factor in recent years, especially if the team isn't winning. So it's hard to claim that new stadiums will solve the attendance problems for these teams. Well it's a ton of reasons. The Rays stadium is awful first off, it's in a so-so neighborhood away from where the bulk of the general Tampa population lives. Ditto for the Marlins, their stadium is essentially in a suburb. While that no doubt works for football, it doesn't work for an 82-game baseball schedule. Add in the fact that their unpredictable weathers leads to tons of rain outs and delays... and the fact it's a god awful stadium with no personality. Also you have to remember despite the bits of success as a whole the franchises have not been very good. You don't have any 2nd or 3rd generation Rays/Marlins fans. Yes, they went to the WS last year but over the past decade they were one of the worst teams in the league, ever year... great talent or not. So long term success in a good ballpark will build up a fan base. You still have to remember these are very new franchises in a very new market, so it'll take time. Edited April 17, 2009 by FedEx227 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 QUOTE (FedEx227 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 12:41 PM) Well it's a ton of reasons. The Rays stadium is awful first off, it's in a so-so neighborhood away from where the bulk of the general Tampa population lives. Ditto for the Marlins, their stadium is essentially in a suburb. While that no doubt works for football, it doesn't work for an 82-game baseball schedule. Add in the fact that their unpredictable weathers leads to tons of rain outs and delays... and the fact it's a god awful stadium with no personality. Also you have to remember despite the bits of success as a whole the franchises have not been very good. You don't have any 2nd or 3rd generation Rays/Marlins fans. Yes, they went to the WS last year but over the past decade they were one of the worst teams in the league, ever year... great talent or not. So long term success in a good ballpark will build up a fan base. You still have to remember these are very new franchises in a very new market, so it'll take time. If you would have read my first post...my point was that the Rays have a young and very exciting team AND they are the AL Champs. They just came off a WS appearance! That should put butts in seats by itself. I'm not necessarily talking sellout, but at least 3/4 of the stadium filled (with Rays fans, not half being opposing fans). I bet that the first week at home for the White Sox in 2006 were close to sellouts. Bad weather or not. And fine, move the Rays OR the Marlins. Or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 QUOTE (FedEx227 @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 01:41 PM) Well it's a ton of reasons. The Rays stadium is awful first off, it's in a so-so neighborhood away from where the bulk of the general Tampa population lives. Ditto for the Marlins, their stadium is essentially in a suburb. While that no doubt works for football, it doesn't work for an 82-game baseball schedule. Add in the fact that their unpredictable weathers leads to tons of rain outs and delays... and the fact it's a god awful stadium with no personality. Also you have to remember despite the bits of success as a whole the franchises have not been very good. You don't have any 2nd or 3rd generation Rays/Marlins fans. Yes, they went to the WS last year but over the past decade they were one of the worst teams in the league, ever year... great talent or not. So long term success in a good ballpark will build up a fan base. You still have to remember these are very new franchises in a very new market, so it'll take time. Ok, I'll bite. How long will it take? Will the team need 2 generations of fans before it'll draw? If so, can the team even be successful if it takes that long? Unless the team will be wildly successful in 2-3 generations, is it even worth it to wait that long? Keep in mind that I think your points are valid, but I think overall the fans still are not supporting the Florida teams as much as should be expected given that they are a) new, B) have terrible stadiums and c) the stadiums are in 'bad' locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Apr 17, 2009 -> 10:18 AM) Tampa's stadium is in an awful spot. But if anything they should be moved, not contracted. As for the Marlins, i'm willing to give Miami a shot still since they are getting a new stadium in a couple years. A few years after they move in there and they still aren't drawing? Yeah ok, then maybe they should be moved. Problem with that logic is...if the city of Miami isn't getting to lock them in to a deal in exchange for the new taxpayer funded stadium, then why would the city build it in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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