Rays should be contracted...IMMEDIATELY

[FedEx227]

If you would have read my first post...my point was that the Rays have a young and very exciting team AND they are the AL Champs. They just came off a WS appearance! That should put butts in seats by itself. I'm not necessarily talking sellout, but at least 3/4 of the stadium filled (with Rays fans, not half being opposing fans).

 

I bet that the first week at home for the White Sox in 2006 were close to sellouts. Bad weather or not. And fine, move the Rays OR the Marlins. Or both.

 

Apples and oranges in my mind. The Chicago White Sox have been around for 100 or so years. They have tons of older fans, middle age fans, fans from all walks of life through many generations. They have a great stadium, located in Chicago.

 

It's not just about rapid fans or diehard fans or whatever there's tons of other stuff that goes into it besides that.

 

The Chicago White Sox are in a obviously more populated area, in a better stadium, in a better location with a ton more history. Them going to a World Series and being great is a ton different than a 10-year old franchise with zero history, no solid season ticket base and an awful stadium in a terrible location going to a World Series. Completely different.

 

Ok, I'll bite. How long will it take? Will the team need 2 generations of fans before it'll draw? If so, can the team even be successful if it takes that long? Unless the team will be wildly successful in 2-3 generations, is it even worth it to wait that long?

 

Keep in mind that I think your points are valid, but I think overall the fans still are not supporting the Florida teams as much as should be expected given that they are a) new, have terrible stadiums and c) the stadiums are in 'bad' locations.

 

It's not going to take generations, but about 5-10 years of solid teams and a new stadium before we really see anything. And that's if they estimated the area. I honestly don't think it's going to work in Florida no matter what, they had an opportunity and pretty much messed it up with both the Marlins and the Rays. It's possible it can turn around, but I think there's more much to it than "THEY HAVE BAD FANS!" I don't think fans in Florida are very good, I'm not defending them entirely, I'm just saying that a lot of things go into it.

Edited April 17, 2009 by FedEx227

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Problem with that logic is...if the city of Miami isn't getting to lock them in to a deal in exchange for the new taxpayer funded stadium, then why would the city build it in the first place?

 

 

It's moot because the stadium deal is already finalized IIRC

[BearSox]

I agree, one of the Florida teams need to move, and whichever team stays needs to build their new stadium in either Jacksonville or Orlando like Hawk said. I also think baseball needs to add 2 expansion teams. Make it 16 teams in each division (5-6-5).

 

Cities that should have a baseball team, IMO:

 

• San Antonio - Largest city in USA without a professional baseball team. I'm sure a team could draw well there. Both the Rangers and Astros draw well, even when they are doing bad. I think this would be a real good location to put a team.
• Indianapolis - Another large city without a professional baseball team. Could probably draw a lot, I think baseball could do really well there.
• Memphis - They have a ton of minor league baseball teams, and I think the fans down there would love a professional team.
• Charlotte - Good sports city, I think the people would like an MLB team

 

There's some more possibilities as well, but those are my favorite.

[Disco72]

I agree, one of the Florida teams need to move, and whichever team stays needs to build their new stadium in either Jacksonville or Orlando like Hawk said. I also think baseball needs to add 2 expansion teams. Make it 16 teams in each division (5-6-5).

 

I 100% disagree with adding two more teams. I don't think the "market for baseball" is big enough to expand, especially right now. You can move a team (or two) if necessary, but no more expansion.

[Balta1701]

[*]San Antonio - Largest city in USA without a professional baseball team. I'm sure a team could draw well there. Both the Rangers and Astros draw well, even when they are doing bad. I think this would be a real good location to put a team.

But if Texas secedes...then they're in real trouble.

[Balta1701]

I 100% disagree with adding two more teams. I don't think the "market for baseball" is big enough to expand, especially right now. You can move a team (or two) if necessary, but no more expansion.

I'd be more worried about bringing more of the guys currently filling AAA rosters up in to the big leagues. There's been enough dilution so far, I think.

[Disco72]

I'd be more worried about bringing more of the guys currently filling AAA rosters up in to the big leagues. There's been enough dilution so far, I think.

 

True... there are business and baseball reasons not to expand!

[chw42]

hahaha... nah I wish. I got banned from WSI a few weeks ago so I've had to use this and Palehosed as my main source of White Sox talk, so that's all. I probably had 2 posts from the date I joined until a week ago.

 

But that's irrelevant...no, I'm not bashing Sox attendance in fact I hate that type of stuff but facts are facts. They don't draw very well, and neither do we in the April-May months. We're a great summer and walk-up attendance team, no doubt... that's our bread and butter. I just don't think we as Sox fans have a right to bash other teams attendance when we aren't really the toast of the league attedance-wise either.

 

At least not without explaining a few of the reasons why their attedance is as pitiful as it is. It's not just "THEIR FANS AREN'T GOOD!!!" there's a ton that goes into their putrid attendance.

 

What did you get banned for? lol

 

I got perma banned for a really s***ty reason.

[danman31]

Baseball and Florida is something that will never really work IMO. It's not a baseball state.

I wouldn't say it isn't a baseball state. It's an absolute hotbed for high school and college ball. The fans just don't go to MLB games and with those 2 stadiums, it's hard to blame them.

[FedEx227]

What did you get banned for? lol

 

I got perma banned for a really s***ty reason.

 

Someone on another board linked me to something at WSI. It was a banned guys sig, which apparently only shows up in WSI's Admin Board.

 

So naturally Daver said I was attempting to "hack" the site because I spent 15 seconds on their Admin Board, so naturally I was attempting to take personal files from them (which aren't even on the admin board) but yeah. Normal ban-happy bulls***.

 

[BearSox]

I 100% disagree with adding two more teams. I don't think the "market for baseball" is big enough to expand, especially right now. You can move a team (or two) if necessary, but no more expansion.

I wasn't talking about immediately, but in 5-10 years. Wait for the economy to be in a good place, have a lot more major league talent formed, etc.

 

Also, if there were ever expansion teams, I'd have an expansion draft similar to the one the NFL had a few years back. Something like each team has to put 5 of their players on the 40 man roster in the draft pool, and if one of the two expansion team drafts a player on your list, they have to take on that players whole contract. So it'd also provide an option for any of the other 30 teams to get rid of some bad contracts (like Travis Hafner for instance).

[zenryan]

I agree, one of the Florida teams need to move, and whichever team stays needs to build their new stadium in either Jacksonville or Orlando like Hawk said. I also think baseball needs to add 2 expansion teams. Make it 16 teams in each division (5-6-5).

 

 

 

No way.

 

Jacksonville doesnt even support their NFL team. A MLB wouldnt stand a chance.

 

Orlando wouldnt draw anymore people than Tampa or Miami.

 

 

 

Move the Rays into Tampa and that will save a lot of people a 40+ minute ride to their current stadium. Miami needs a dome because games are unbearable there during the summer. Plus a stadium inside the city should help attendance as long as they keep a competitive product on the field.

 

Plus a lot of the blame can be put on fans who wont switch to the Rays. They live in the Tampa area but wont get behind the hometown team.

[Balta1701]

Plus a lot of the blame can be put on fans who wont switch to the Rays. They live in the Tampa area but wont get behind the hometown team.

For the last 10 years, could you blame them?

[chw42]

Someone on another board linked me to something at WSI. It was a banned guys sig, which apparently only shows up in WSI's Admin Board.

 

So naturally Daver said I was attempting to "hack" the site because I spent 15 seconds on their Admin Board, so naturally I was attempting to take personal files from them (which aren't even on the admin board) but yeah. Normal ban-happy bulls***.

 

Let me guess, they didn't even listen to you when you tried to explain yourself? Or did you even try to explain what happened?

 

I got banned for posting something about jailbreaking iPhones, which isn't even illegal.

 

Anyways, back on topic.

 

I really wonder how nobody likes baseball in Florida when it's baseball weather all-year long.

Edited April 18, 2009 by chw42

[Balta1701]

I really wonder how nobody likes baseball in Florida when it's baseball weather all-year long.

It's rainy and humid in the summer. And there's the occasional hurricane. And really, who was going to go to a Rays game until last year unless you like the visiting team?

[FedEx227]

That's my point, you had an expansion team that was largely horse s*** for the first 10 years of their existence. They don't have a very solid fan base. It'll grow with sustained success, but it's not going to be a 1-year type thing.

[CanOfCorn]

That's my point, you had an expansion team that was largely horse s*** for the first 10 years of their existence. They don't have a very solid fan base. It'll grow with sustained success, but it's not going to be a 1-year type thing.

 

Look, my point is...the Tampa fans should be excited at the beginning of the year. But, it looks like the hangover has already started. That's the part that pisses me off. If, by June, the Trop is empty, I wouldn't be surprised. But, we are 10 games into the year...it should be at least 3/4 full of Rays fans as carryover from a World Series bid.

 

Apples and orange comparisons only work on year long attendance numbers. I'm not saying they are going to be #1 in attendance at the end of the year.

 

I'm not throwing stones as a Sox fan (and our attendance numbers which has been discussed ad nauseum, literally, on this site)...I was surprised, amazed and incredibly disappointed that a team coming off of a World Series appearance with an exciting, young team, can't draw a near full house in the first few games of the following season. If that's the case...this team is in trouble.

[BearSox]

The crowd wasn't that bad last night. I think you'll see good crowds on weekends, but on weekdays, it'll be empty.

[ILMOU]

You're missing the point. Both Florida teams have been to and/or won the World Series, yet the Rays and Marlins are not getting the attendance (and therefore revenue) boost that teams usually get during and after successful seasons. The bad stadiums/locations is a mitigating factor, but if you don't draw when you are winning, when will you draw? The teams have been there long enough to develop a fan base, and the "new stadium boost" in attendance has not been as big a factor in recent years, especially if the team isn't winning. So it's hard to claim that new stadiums will solve the attendance problems for these teams.

 

Agreed. Florida just isn't a good place for baseball, and probably never will be, so it's kind of lousy that they have two teams. Other than Vegas, where the economy is really in the toilet, he biggest markets that don't have MLB are North Carolina (Charlotte would be best location), Indianapolis, Columbus (though Ohio is covered well with Cleveland and Cincy)and Tennessee (Nashville or Memphis, with Nashville probably more attractive). I don't know how well those places would support MLB, but I'd be willing to bet it would be much better than in Florida.

 

Overall, I think Indy and Charlotte are best places for expansion, if and when.

[FedEx227]

Probably Indy more.

 

Charlottes biggest business is banking. :-/

[NorthSideSox72]

Memphis should not be in the discussion for a major league team. I'd put about 10 metro areas ahead of it. Memphis is a basketball town and can't even support their NBA team, its one of the poorest large cities in the country, high crime, rainy weather, and a fan base already very attached to one team (Cards).

 

You want a team in Tennessee / Mid-South, the clear choice is Nashville - same size city but much better in pretty much every respect for a predictor of MLB success.

 

In any case, I think expansion is a bad idea - too much dilution already.

 

And the cities that I think deserve the most consideration for a team (moved or expanded) outside of Florida, in order, would be:

 

Charlotte / Carolinas

San Juan, PR

San Antonio / McAllen

Albuquerque / Santa Fe

Portland

Nashville

 

[rangercal]

Memphis should not be in the discussion for a major league team. I'd put about 10 metro areas ahead of it. Memphis is a basketball town and can't even support their NBA team, its one of the poorest large cities in the country, high crime, rainy weather, and a fan base already very attached to one team (Cards).

 

You want a team in Tennessee / Mid-South, the clear choice is Nashville - same size city but much better in pretty much every respect for a predictor of MLB success.

 

In any case, I think expansion is a bad idea - too much dilution already.

 

And the cities that I think deserve the most consideration for a team (moved or expanded) outside of Florida, in order, would be:

 

Charlotte / Carolinas

San Juan, PR

San Antonio / McAllen

Albuquerque / Santa Fe

Portland

Nashville

 

I think we may be in for a major cold spell in terms of cities receiving expansion teams. On the contrary, you will see more re-locations.

 

I felt pretty bad for Browns,Oilers and now Sonics fans.

[CanOfCorn]

Memphis should not be in the discussion for a major league team. I'd put about 10 metro areas ahead of it. Memphis is a basketball town and can't even support their NBA team, its one of the poorest large cities in the country, high crime, rainy weather, and a fan base already very attached to one team (Cards).

 

You want a team in Tennessee / Mid-South, the clear choice is Nashville - same size city but much better in pretty much every respect for a predictor of MLB success.

 

In any case, I think expansion is a bad idea - too much dilution already.

 

And the cities that I think deserve the most consideration for a team (moved or expanded) outside of Florida, in order, would be:

 

Charlotte / Carolinas

San Juan, PR

San Antonio / Austin

Albuquerque / Santa Fe

Portland

Nashville

 

Fixed. Austin is the largest market without a major pro sports team, plus if you place a stadium between those two cities, either in New Braunfels or San Marcos, you'd have a HUGE market to draw from. Plus, I just don't think the Texsox clan can support a team.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Fixed. Austin is the largest market without a major pro sports team, plus if you place a stadium between those two cities, either in New Braunfels or San Marcos, you'd have a HUGE market to draw from. Plus, I just don't think the Texsox clan can support a team.

Austin has a metro population of 1.6M, but is also, what, 80 miles from San Antonio? And its a few hours from two metros with major league teams.

 

On the other hand, the other metro areas I listed are much further from existing MLB teams. And in the case of ABQ/SF, and San Juan, they have no pro franchises for hundreds of miles in any direction. Same with Las Vegas, though I didn't put that on the list for other reasons.