Brent Lillibridge in CF?

[Princess Dye]

I'm as harsh a critic of Brian as can be, and yet if he wants to keep taking walks and slapping singles... while bringing that CF defense, great.

 

I dont need more extra base power on the team. Lillibridge I just want as utility for right now.

 

What I do fear though is that BA's getting an abnormal amount of first pitch balls for some reason, and when the league adjusts his OBP will revert. Very much hope that fear does not come to be.

Edited April 21, 2009 by Princess Dye

[qwerty]

I'm as harsh a critic of Brian as can be, and yet if he wants to keep taking walks and slapping singles... while bringing that CF defense, great.

 

I dont need more extra base power on the team.

 

What I do fear though is that he's getting an abnormal amount of first pitch balls for some reason, and when the league adjusts his OBP will revert. Very much hope that fear does not come to be.

 

Ya, that always hurts. I can't stand when a player is even closer to home than the average hit (single).

[ScottyDo]

Ya, that always hurts. I can't stand when a player is even closer to home than the average hit (single).

I don't think he was trying to imply that slugging is bad, just that you can't focus on slugging to the exclusion of all else, especially since we've got so much of it when averaged over the whole team. It's silly to expect your entire lineup to crush the ball consistently.

 

If we had 9 Jim Thomes on our ball club, I don't know that we would be that good.

[lostfan]

I'm as harsh a critic of Brian as can be, and yet if he wants to keep taking walks and slapping singles... while bringing that CF defense, great.

 

I dont need more extra base power on the team. Lillibridge I just want as utility for right now.

 

What I do fear though is that BA's getting an abnormal amount of first pitch balls for some reason, and when the league adjusts his OBP will revert. Very much hope that fear does not come to be.

Well his obp isn't going to stay .429, that would be nothing short of miraculous.

[qwerty]

I don't think he was trying to imply that slugging is bad, just that you can't focus on slugging to the exclusion of all else, especially since we've got so much of it when averaged over the whole team. It's silly to expect your entire lineup to crush the ball consistently.

 

If we had 9 Jim Thomes on our ball club, I don't know that we would be that good.

 

I understood that.

 

Princess likely believes that as long as he is competent enough offensively he will do, due to his defense. This may very well end up being the case.

 

I dont need more extra base power on the team.

 

I can also see this quote meaning you would rather have hit after hit strung (rally) together while scoring three runs compared to a walk, a hit or any sort, and a home run to top it off. There is very little difference in the outcome other than one may be more fun to watch and even that is debatable (rally the runs in, or a home run with men on).

 

There is a ongoing belief here that extra base hits and home runs are equivalent to a piece of s***. Speedy slap hitters may sound really cool and exciting until your team is full them.

 

Also, if a team had nine clones of thome (or any ''slugger'' for that matter) in the line up it would be down right scary, devestating.

 

 

 

 

[ThunderBolt]

Lillibridge shouldn't be starting for this team unless something terrible happens to half the organization, but he'd be a great option to backup center, and would help rid us of our recurring Jerry Owens epidemic.

Edited April 21, 2009 by Thunderbolt

[elrockinMT]

Seems Lili is a singles hiter and with not too many of those at this point. I see him as a utility man like he is now

[caulfield12]

Lillibridge is on fire...we can't take him out of the line-up. He's the IGNITER.

[witesoxfan]

If we had 9 Jim Thomes on our ball club, I don't know that we would be that good.

 

They would go 8-32 against lefties and 84-38 against righties.

[ScottyDo]

They would go 8-32 against lefties and 84-38 against righties.

and the AL Central teams would stop employing any player that plays on the left side of the field.

[ozzfest]

nope

[Princess Dye]

Just to clarify - "I dont need more extra base power on this team"... mainly just talking about our current resources for filling the 9-hole...

 

obviously if extra base power comes in the person of Grady Sizemore being traded here, then great

 

But if we're talking just Anderson v. Wise...... I've always been for Wise because he can get hotter for stretches. That's what recent history bears out.

 

Both have shown they can hit in AAA. Wise has done something recently here in big at-bats however.

 

 

 

All that said, Wise will not take walks. I'm convinced of it. If Anderson wants to learn to take walks and hit enough to make that worthwhile...... that plus the defense is enough for me to favor him. Obviously the sample size right now is small and we still have to see.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Princess Dye

[caulfield12]

Anderson simply cannot hit a major league fastball.

 

His swing is way too big...and he hasn't shown any ability to be short and quick.

 

Ray just threw center cut fastballs with no movement right down the pike and Anderson wasn't even close. As Harrelson says, if you can't hit the fastball, you're not long for the majors. The problem is that Brian isn't a very good offspeed hitter either. He has a "slider speed" bat and until he can tighten up that swing, he'll always be a 4th/5th outfielder no matter how well he can field, run and throw.

[witesoxfan]

took one game for someone to jump on him. Knew that was to be expected.

 

and to clarify as to why I did not give Dewayne Wise more than one game - it's because Dewayne Wise has been a bad minor league player and an absolutely horrendous major league player, and he's 31. Anderson is atleast younger, has good minor league numbers, and plays superb defense.

 

All I am saying....is give BA a chance.

[Chisoxfn]

Anderson simply cannot hit a major league fastball.

 

His swing is way too big...and he hasn't shown any ability to be short and quick.

 

Ray just threw center cut fastballs with no movement right down the pike and Anderson wasn't even close. As Harrelson says, if you can't hit the fastball, you're not long for the majors. The problem is that Brian isn't a very good offspeed hitter either. He has a "slider speed" bat and until he can tighten up that swing, he'll always be a 4th/5th outfielder no matter how well he can field, run and throw.

If all Brian saw was fastballs, he'd be pretty darn good. He's got a long swing but if he saw fastballs he'd belt 40+ hr's with a .250ish average all while playing gold glove defense. He has awful pitch recognition and is always caught in between. Not to mention his long swing prevents him from being able to adjust and put consistent swings on the ball.

 

[caulfield12]

I just can't imagine what else that BA would expect in that situation from Ray BUT a fastball. Surely, every player in baseball would be an All-Star if they had only one type of pitch thrown against them and they didn't actually have to think or make adjustments.

 

It was like Balfour and Cabrera last year...here's a heater coming, I'll through it right over the heart of the plate at 96-97, but I still don't think you're going to make any contact. That was just about getting overwhelmed/overmatched.

 

If you're "in-between," you have to look for the FB first and attack that pitch when you get it. And Anderson still hasn't driven in a run with RISP (2nd and 3rd and one out)...maybe if we take a 4-2 lead instead of 3-2, the game turns out differently. Of course, Contreras just hasn't had his control.

 

There were MANY things that went wrong tonight, and surely we'll be talking about Josh Fields (lack of power, K's, big swing) if he continues his current tailspin.

Edited April 22, 2009 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

I'm as harsh a critic of Brian as can be, and yet if he wants to keep taking walks and slapping singles... while bringing that CF defense, great.

 

I dont need more extra base power on the team. Lillibridge I just want as utility for right now.

 

What I do fear though is that BA's getting an abnormal amount of first pitch balls for some reason, and when the league adjusts his OBP will revert. Very much hope that fear does not come to be.

What will happen if he starts swinging at pitcher's pitches the first pitch is everyone complaining that he takes pitches out of the strike zone now will start complaining that he swings at everything. That's pretty much guaranteed. He has a long swing right now, there's no question. Supposedly its really short in BP but he hasn't been able to bring it to the game. Once that happens, if that happens, the term "BA fanboy" will go away.

[Kyyle23]

What will happen if he starts swinging at pitcher's pitches the first pitch is everyone complaining that he takes pitches out of the strike zone now will start complaining that he swings at everything. That's pretty much guaranteed. He has a long swing right now, there's no question. Supposedly its really short in BP but he hasn't been able to bring it to the game. Once that happens, if that happens, the term "BA fanboy" will go away.

 

please god, let that happen. Just so I dont have to look at the fanboy/hunny posts

[witesoxfan]

I just can't imagine what else that BA would expect in that situation from Ray BUT a fastball. Surely, every player in baseball would be an All-Star if they had only one type of pitch thrown against them and they didn't actually have to think or make adjustments.

 

It was like Balfour and Cabrera last year...here's a heater coming, I'll through it right over the heart of the plate at 96-97, but I still don't think you're going to make any contact. That was just about getting overwhelmed/overmatched.

 

If you're "in-between," you have to look for the FB first and attack that pitch when you get it. And Anderson still hasn't driven in a run with RISP (2nd and 3rd and one out)...maybe if we take a 4-2 lead instead of 3-2, the game turns out differently. Of course, Contreras just hasn't had his control.

 

There were MANY things that went wrong tonight, and surely we'll be talking about Josh Fields (lack of power, K's, big swing) if he continues his current tailspin.

 

It's Brian Anderson's fault that the score wasn't 4-2 instead of 3-2, yet Getz gets hit by a pitch (productive, but it doesn't bring a run in), Fields flew out with a runner on 2nd and Quentin grounded out with a runner on 3rd. Those three get essentially a free pass though.

 

Why nit pick? Atleast Anderson gave the Sox the lead. It's not his fault that Contreras sucked or that the bullpen gave up like 5 more runs.

[caulfield12]

Because Anderson, at the least...should learn how to hit the ball to the right side of the infield if he's not going to be able to get a hit in those critical situations. Had he done that, Josh Fields' flyball to RF would have been and 2nd RBI of the inning.

 

Yes, it was a team loss...but I am looking for some signs of positive progression in BA with RISP, that's it.

Edited April 22, 2009 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Because Anderson, at the least...should learn how to hit the ball to the right side of the infield if he's not going to be able to get a hit in those critical situations. Had he done that, Josh Fields' flyball to RF would have been and 2nd RBI of the inning.

 

Yes, it was a team loss...but I am looking for some signs of positive progression in BA with RISP, that's it.

That's at least 2 Sox losses where they lost by at least 7 runs this season we can pin on BA. When the Sox get rid of him they may never lose.

[caulfield12]

We won of our first two games and people were harder (much harder) on DeWayne Wise. I think your quote could actually be attributable moreso to the feeling/s people had about what would happen if Wise weren't in the line-up.

 

As soon as Brian Anderson rips a fastball with no movement that's right over the middle of the plate, then I might give him the benefit of the doubt for 2-3 more games, which, once again, is more lenience than Wise got.

 

Not to mention the bigger fact that we don't have any pitchers to replace Contreras with, so we have to get more offense on those nights when he starts. Everyone was bad, and in a game or two, there will be threads dedicated to "what's wrong with Josh Fields???" too.

Edited April 22, 2009 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

We won of our first two games and people were harder (much harder) on DeWayne Wise. I think your quote could actually be attributable moreso to the feeling/s people had about what would happen if Wise weren't in the line-up.

 

As soon as Brian Anderson rips a fastball with no movement that's right over the middle of the plate, then I might give him the benefit of the doubt for 2-3 more games, which, once again, is more lenience than Wise got.

 

Not to mention the bigger fact that we don't have any pitchers to replace Contreras with, so we have to get more offense on those nights when he starts. Everyone was bad, and in a game or two, there will be threads dedicated to "what's wrong with Josh Fields???" too.

You have ripped BA for not swinging at balls. It is crazy. Your "logic" is as soon as pitchers see he's not swinging at the first couple of pitches, they will throw strikes and his strikeout rate will skyrocket".

 

That made zero sense. He's supposed to swing at pitches out of the strike zone in order to strike out less? Give the BA bashing a rest. While maybe he deserves a little ball busting, you have taken it to another level and are ruining your reputation as a good poster.

 

The Sox somehow won 3 out of 4 in TB with BA in CF, and would have swept if the bullpen held. It must be a miracle.

 

Maybe the Sox should have soxtalk favorite Josh Kroeger come up and see what he can do in CF. He's got his average up to .179 in Charlotte.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

That's not what I said at all.

 

I never said he should swing at balls out of the strike zone. He does enough of that without my advising him to do so.

 

What I said was that he was seeing a disproportionate number of balls on the first pitch...or even the second pitch, and that this would turn around and eventually he would have to hit his way on base. Logical??

 

It's a statistical anomaly. If you look at the pitch pattern to BA in every game he's started, probably 75-80% of his first two pitches are balls. That's not going to hold up.

 

Look, I would be glad to be "proven wrong" about BA, but I've watched baseball my entire life...and I just don't see it happening with him as a starting/regular major league CFer. He has all the tools, but there were many prospects you could have said the same thing about. Kenny Williams, in fact, was a much better prospect and had even better overall tools than BA when he reached the majors. We can wish and blindly hope all we want for someone to succeed...I just don't see it happening.

 

Here's what I will do. No commentary at all from me on Brian Anderson on a nightly basis.

 

When (in the future) would be a "reasonable" time to discuss him again? You tell me. We have people here wanting to yank Contreras out of the starting rotation after 3 starts when the White Sox are in first place (even KW and Ozzie and Cooper are discussing "options"), so perhaps there's no such thing as premature evaluation anymore.

 

Never wanted Kroeger in CF. Lillibridge or moving Ramirez is just a desperation move. Shelby and Danks aren't close to being ready. Like it or not, we're stuck with Anderson until KW makes a move. Jerry Owens will probably get his unconditional release tomorrow or Friday.

Edited April 22, 2009 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

That's not what I said at all.

 

I never said he should swing at balls out of the strike zone. He does enough of that without my advising him to do so.

 

What I said was that he was seeing a disproportionate number of balls on the first pitch...or even the second pitch, and that this would turn around and eventually he would have to hit his way on base. Logical??

 

It's a statistical anomaly. If you look at the pitch pattern to BA in every game he's started, probably 75-80% of his first two pitches are balls. That's not going to hold up.

 

Look, I would be glad to be "proven wrong" about BA, but I've watched baseball my entire life...and I just don't see it happening with him as a starting/regular major league CFer. He has all the tools, but there were many prospects you could have said the same thing about. Kenny Williams, in fact, was a much better prospect and had even better overall tools than BA when he reached the majors. We can wish and blindly hope all we want for someone to succeed...I just don't see it happening.

 

Any player that gets thrown strikes the first 2 pitches instead of balls will have his strikeout rate increase. Its an encouraging sign BA wasn't swinging at those pitches, rather than the dire fate you have predicted.