More Beckham Gossip

[shago]

CBS Sportsline: "White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen and his staff have at least discussed a scenario where Alexei Ramirez could be moved to CF, making room for top prospect Gordon Beckham to be called up to play shortstop, The Sports Xchange notes. Guillen said it is still too early to pull the trigger on that, however. They want Beckham to get more games under his belt at the minor league level. Beckham is hitting .368 in nine games at Double-A Birmingham. He has two homers and seven RBI."

 

(Updated 04/20/2009)

 

 

[caulfield12]

At the rate things are going, they might be suggesting a position change in the minor leagues for Ramirez.

 

I wouldn't be shocked to see him sent to BIRM to play CF if his problems continue for 2-3 more weeks. Viciedo is also struggling mightily in his adjustment to American baseball...but it's just 40 at-bats for both of them. Seems that most Latin players really struggle in April in the cold weather.

 

The question is, of course, who would play SS? Lillibridge? Getz, Nix and Betemit aren't capable of playing that position on an everyday basis for long stretches of time, and you'd have to think the chances of Alexei coming out of it are greater than Lillibridge putting up an 800 OPS from here on out.

 

A lot of it will depend upon the standings. If we're in hailing distance of first place, they will continue to be patient with Beckham and let him develop defensively.

[hogan873]

As much as many of us would love to see Beckham is Sox jersey soon, I'd hate to see him moved up too fast and be overwhelmed. When an organization has a player of this caliber you don't want to see him pushed too hard to where he falters. I believe that in the short term Alexei has to be our SS. His bat should come around. He may not have the same type of year he had last year, but it should be okay.

 

Depending on where the Sox are later in the year, standings-wise, we may see Beckham. And I would think we will definitely see him next year, provided he continues to tear up the minors.

[Goober]

Wish we had Jeremy Reed still to play center. It would have solved all our problems.

[caulfield12]

I wish we had Tmar...he is not just a singles hitter. And he has many hunnies...he's quite the player.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

At the rate things are going, they might be suggesting a position change in the minor leagues for Ramirez.

 

I wouldn't be shocked to see him sent to BIRM to play CF if his problems continue for 2-3 more weeks. Viciedo is also struggling mightily in his adjustment to American baseball...but it's just 40 at-bats for both of them. Seems that most Latin players really struggle in April in the cold weather.

 

The question is, of course, who would play SS? Lillibridge? Getz, Nix and Betemit aren't capable of playing that position on an everyday basis for long stretches of time, and you'd have to think the chances of Alexei coming out of it are greater than Lillibridge putting up an 800 OPS from here on out.

 

A lot of it will depend upon the standings. If we're in hailing distance of first place, they will continue to be patient with Beckham and let him develop defensively.

 

 

The things you say sometimes...

 

There is no way Alexei will be sent to Birmingham.

 

Viciedo is hitting .238 through 42 AB's. He only has 8 strikeouts so that isnt that alarming. Far too early to be saying he is "struggling mightily".

 

And there is nothing to your "Seems that most Latin players really struggle in April in the cold weather" comment.

[G&T]

The things you say sometimes...

 

There is no way Alexei will be sent to Birmingham.

 

Viciedo is hitting .238 through 42 AB's. He only has 8 strikeouts so that isnt that alarming. Far too early to be saying he is "struggling mightily".

 

And there is nothing to your "Seems that most Latin players really struggle in April in the cold weather" comment.

 

 

Wait...are you saying Dusty Baker was wrong?

[caulfield12]

I'm sure someone has done a study...and that there is some statistical validity to the fact that players who come out of Latin America struggle more in the early months. Do you think it's coincidence Ramirez has looked atrocious in both April 08 and April 09? That Viciedo is struggling?

 

Both hit well in spring training...at least pretty good, and much better than now.

 

Why does Contreras pitch much better in the heat of the summer? Are all of these complete coincidences lacking in statistical validity?

 

Why do "warm weather" or Dome teams do poorly in Green Bay or Chicago in December or January?

 

Viciedo's not hitting the ball with authority, and Lillibridge has a higher OPS in the majors. Hmmm....

Edited April 21, 2009 by caulfield12

[Kyyle23]

I'm sure someone has done a study...and that there is some statistical validity to the fact that players who come out of Latin America struggle more in the early months. Do you think it's coincidence Ramirez has looked atrocious in both April 08 and April 09? That Viciedo is struggling?

 

Both hit well in spring training...at least pretty good, and much better than now.

 

Why does Contreras pitch much better in the heat of the summer? Are all of these complete coincidences lacking in statistical validity?

 

Why do "warm weather" or Dome teams do poorly in Green Bay or Chicago in December or January?

 

I seem to remember Contreras starting off the year last year pretty damn good. I also remember him being named the number 1 pitcher in the playoffs/World series in 2005, where it was particularly cold and rainy.

 

why are you talking about Football? stay on the subject

Edited April 21, 2009 by kyyle23

[Dick Allen]

The things you say sometimes...

 

There is no way Alexei will be sent to Birmingham.

 

Viciedo is hitting .238 through 42 AB's. He only has 8 strikeouts so that isnt that alarming. Far too early to be saying he is "struggling mightily".

 

And there is nothing to your "Seems that most Latin players really struggle in April in the cold weather" comment.

I would say .238 with no walks and only 1 double and 0 other extra base hits in AA is struggling for someone who a lot thought would be on the White Sox opening day roster. That said, I wouldn't be alarmed. I do think there might be something to the weather, especially with Viciedo. He probably had never played a game where the temperature was below 60 degrees in his life until this month. I'm sure there's an adjustment, not only to the weather, but the culture, etc. I think and hope he will be alright.

 

I would think the majority of Latin players have learned to play in the cold, but guys like Alexei and Viciedo haven't really been exposed to it very long and their adjustment period is just beginning. Its a very different feeling standing at the plate when there's a 25 degree wind chill vs. 80 degrees.

 

At least we can hope its the weather, because if its anything else, it could be troublesome.

[caulfield12]

But Contreras became dominant in 2005 when it was really hot in late July, August and September...

 

You think "cold weather" has only an affect on baseball players? Why aren't other sports relevant?

[Dick Allen]

I seem to remember Contreras starting off the year last year pretty damn good. I also remember him being named the number 1 pitcher in the playoffs/World series in 2005, where it was particularly cold and rainy.

 

why are you talking about Football? stay on the subject

Its a lot easier to pitch in the cold than hit in the cold. I think Contreras struggling is because he's had a long layoff and is in the middle of his "spring training". The cold weather should help him. The pitcher has the advantage the colder it is.

[caulfield12]

I would say .238 with no walks and only 1 double and 0 other extra base hits in AA is struggling for someone who a lot thought would be on the White Sox opening day roster. That said, I wouldn't be alarmed. I do think there might be something to the weather, especially with Viciedo. He probably had never played a game where the temperature was below 60 degrees in his life until this month. I'm sure there's an adjustment, not only to the weather, but the culture, etc. I think and hope he will be alright.

 

I would think the majority of Latin players have learned to play in the cold, but guys like Alexei and Viciedo haven't really been exposed to it very long and their adjustment period is just beginning. Its a very different feeling standing at the plate when there's a 25 degree wind chill vs. 80 degrees.

 

At least we can hope its the weather, because if its anything else, it could be troublesome.

 

 

Yes, because he did crush the ball the first week of ST and also hit quite a few liners and doubles to the opposite field.

 

His contact rate has dramatically increased, but the power numbers are below Sweeney/Lillibridge.

[caulfield12]

Its a lot easier to pitch in the cold than hit in the cold. I think Contreras struggling is because he's had a long layoff and is in the middle of his "spring training". The cold weather should help him. The pitcher has the advantage the colder it is.

 

 

I remember them always saying the Cubans do much better in "Cuban weather."

 

The thing is, Contreras isn't loose or relaxed....not sweating in any of the games. You can see that he doesn't have confidence in anything but the fastball. That comes with time and heat/better weather conditions.

 

And his velocity is not back, either. I'm sure that will change as June/July/August come around.

 

 

 

 

[Kyyle23]

But Contreras became dominant in 2005 when it was really hot in late July, August and September...

 

You think "cold weather" has only an affect on baseball players? Why aren't other sports relevant?

 

No, YOU said it has an affect on Latin players. So try and stay on the subject and quit using other sports as basis for your argument, especially a sport where latin players are an extremely small minority

[RibbieRubarb]

But Contreras became dominant in 2005 when it was really hot in late July, August and September...

 

You think "cold weather" has only an affect on baseball players? Why aren't other sports relevant?

 

No, YOU said it has an affect on Latin players. So try and stay on the subject and quit using other sports as basis for your argument, especially a sport where latin players are an extremely small minority

 

 

Girls...girls...you're both pretty!

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I'm sure someone has done a study...and that there is some statistical validity to the fact that players who come out of Latin America struggle more in the early months. Do you think it's coincidence Ramirez has looked atrocious in both April 08 and April 09? That Viciedo is struggling?

 

Then explain the starts Miggy Cabrera, Carlos Pena, Nelson Cruz, Luis Castillo, Alfonso Soriano, Carlos Delgado, Albert Pujols etc are off to. Plus, Viciedo has been playing in Birmingham, Alabama. It's not like it get's that cold there.

 

Both hit well in spring training...at least pretty good, and much better than now.

 

Why does Contreras pitch much better in the heat of the summer? Are all of these complete coincidences lacking in statistical validity?

 

Do you just make things up?

 

In 2005 Contreras' worst months were June/July. In '06 it was June and August. '07 was July and last year was June and July.

 

Why do "warm weather" or Dome teams do poorly in Green Bay or Chicago in December or January?

 

They play baseball in December/January? Getting into what happens in football is an entirely different argument. And weather patterns in April/May are VERY different to December/January. Like not even comparable.

 

Viciedo's not hitting the ball with authority, and Lillibridge has a higher OPS in the majors. Hmmm....

 

It's been 42 at bats and he's 20 years old in AA.

 

[CanOfCorn]

I remember them always saying the Cubans do much better in "Cuban weather."

 

The thing is, Contreras isn't loose or relaxed....not sweating in any of the games. You can see that he doesn't have confidence in anything but the fastball. That comes with time and heat/better weather conditions.

 

And his velocity is not back, either. I'm sure that will change as June/July/August come around.

 

Pitches don't move in the cold weather like they do in warmer, denser air. His forkball probably doesn't drop like it would in the summer months. Just like a knuckleball pitcher doesn't have as much success until it gets a little warmer. There's not as much "bite" in the air. Hitters on the other hand...who knows. Maybe Alexei isn't a good starter. So what? 11 games guys. 11 games.

[RockRaines]

No, YOU said it has an affect on Latin players. So try and stay on the subject and quit using other sports as basis for your argument, especially a sport where latin players are an extremely small minority

Especially when the evidence is "I am sure someone did a study somewhere."

[NorthSideSox72]

I'm sure its been discussed, but I'm also sure they would rather that Beckham put in some significant time in them minors before going all the way to the majors.

 

And again, let's just TRY to give Anderson a real shot here, since he's been pretty darn good since he took over as a starter. How many different "ideas" have we seen in the past week or two for CF? Wise on his return, Owens, Lillibridge, Alexei/Beckham move, etc. If in mid-May Anderson is hitting for crap, and Wise is back from the DL, then maybe it makes sense to revisit things.

 

[BigSqwert]

Amen

[lostfan]

Why are we talking about Viciedo struggling in the cold by the way? 5 day forecast for Birmingham: 68, 75, 82, 86, 84. Hopefully Viciedo doesn't get hypothermia down there.

[elrockinMT]

Just gossip

[elrockinMT]

I'm sure its been discussed, but I'm also sure they would rather that Beckham put in some significant time in them minors before going all the way to the majors.

 

And again, let's just TRY to give Anderson a real shot here, since he's been pretty darn good since he took over as a starter. How many different "ideas" have we seen in the past week or two for CF? Wise on his return, Owens, Lillibridge, Alexei/Beckham move, etc. If in mid-May Anderson is hitting for crap, and Wise is back from the DL, then maybe it makes sense to revisit things.

 

 

Brian deserve it and Ozzie supposedly has patience, but Brian is doing ok in my opinion

[caulfield12]

1) First you'd have to isolate all those players like Pujols who essentially grew up in Kansas City (Ft. Osage, to be exact) from the Hispanic players that live in the US year-round and then those who live in the Caribbean, Panama, Mexico, Venezuela, etc., in the offseason.

 

2) Then you'd have to throw out those players who played Winter Ball, because someone would make an argument they were more "tired" or not "fresh" coming into the season.

 

3) Then you'd have to look at those games that started in April and May with a temperature below 40 degrees...or 50 degrees...or with a wind chill factor of X amount, etc.

 

4) Then you'd have to look at the baseline for all players in those games and compare...

 

So it could be proven, but in the same way UZR or Zone Rating determines a player's defensive effectiveness, it wouldn't be pristine or perfect in any sense.

 

On the other hand, it would equally difficult to disprove...as many opinions tend to be.

Edited April 21, 2009 by caulfield12