More Beckham Gossip

[Kyyle23]

1) First you'd have to isolate all those players like Pujols who essentially grew up in Kansas City (Ft. Osage, to be exact) from the Hispanic players that live in the US year-round and then those who live in the Caribbean, Panama, Mexico, Venezuela, etc.

 

2) Then you'd have to throw out those players who played Winter Ball, because someone would make an argument they were more "tired" or not "fresh" coming into the season.

 

3) Then you'd have to look at those games that started in April and May with a temperature below 40 degrees...or 50 degrees...or with a wind chill factor of X amount, etc.

 

4) Then you'd have to look at the baseline for all players in those games and compare...

 

So it could be proven, but in the same way UZR or Zone Rating determines a player's defensive effectiveness, it wouldn't be pristine or perfect in any sense.

 

So now that you have proved that your point cannot truly be proved, what is your point?

[ChiSox_Sonix]

So now that you have proved that your point cannot truly be proved, what is your point?

 

 

I think it is that it can not be disproved either

[caulfield12]

Why are we talking about Viciedo struggling in the cold by the way? 5 day forecast for Birmingham: 68, 75, 82, 86, 84. Hopefully Viciedo doesn't get hypothermia down there.

 

 

I don't think he's struggling with the weather or rain.

 

I do think he's going through the typical transition issues that every Latin player goes through (see the upcoming movie "Sugar") when they come to play baseball in the US, and especially a place that's really different from what they're used to (say the Pioneer League or the strange accents/dialects of people from the South).

 

I don't know firsthand what Viciedo's English level is, and if he has someone assigned to spend time with him (the Seattle SuperSonics actually had an intern whose job it was to make sure Sean Kemp got out of bed and got to practice on time)...I can only say that when I worked for the Pirates' minor league team, most of those guys struggled to order from the McDonald's menu. They needed help with finding a car (leasing, buying, renting, etc.) and reading a contract for an apartment. There are just so many details.

 

Having now had the opportunity to live outside the US in four countries (China, Thailand, Philippines and Colombia), I have a much greater appreciation for these issues and the big impact they can have on players....finding a church, dealing with girls and groupies and having freedom away from their parents, ordering food, doing their laundry, trying to learn English, basic communication, it can be very frustrating and alienating.

 

Now I'm not saying these all are excuses whey Viciedo has an OPS less than Brent Lillibridge. It is just 41 at-bats. He has at least come up with some timely RBI's. We know he can drive the ball...he did so in spring training. Over 140 games, the true/r nature of a player comes out. Perhaps he's just putting pressure on himself because of the signing bonus and contract, because of what Alexei did last year, because of all the posts by Cubano, there are many factors.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

I think it is that it can not be disproved either

 

Not according to the article that someone wrote, somewhere, at sometime

[lostfan]

I don't think he's struggling with the weather or rain.

 

I do think he's going through the typical transition issues that every Latin player goes through (see the upcoming movie "Sugar") when they come to play baseball in the US, and especially a place that's really different from what they're used to (say the Pioneer League or the strange accents/dialects of people from the South).

 

I don't know firsthand what Viciedo's English level is, and if he has someone assigned to spend time with him (the Seattle SuperSonics actually had an intern whose job it was to make sure Sean Kemp got out of bed and got to practice on time)...I can only say that when I worked for the Pirates' minor league team, most of those guys struggled to order from the McDonald's menu. They needed help with finding a car (leasing, buying, renting, etc.) and reading a contract for an apartment. There are just so many details.

 

Having now had the opportunity to live outside the US in four countries (China, Thailand, Philippines and Colombia), I have a much greater appreciation for these issues and the big impact they can have on players....finding a church, dealing with girls and groupies and having freedom away from their parents, ordering food, doing their laundry, trying to learn English, basic communication, it can be very frustrating and alienating.

 

Now I'm not saying these all are excuses whey Viciedo has an OPS less than Brent Lillibridge. It is just 41 at-bats. He has at least come up with some timely RBI's. We know he can drive the ball...he did so in spring training. Over 140 games, the true/r nature of a player comes out. Perhaps he's just putting pressure on himself because of the signing bonus and contract, because of what Alexei did last year, because of all the posts by Cubano, there are many factors.

I agree that adjustment to a new culture is probably the biggest thing for him, but weather is not one of them. He's in the South, they get a good 4-6 week headstart on good weather.

[caulfield12]

Not according to the article that someone wrote, somewhere, at sometime

 

Here's a statistic for you.

 

AT-BATS where the count reaches 2 strikes (0-2, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2)....performance from 2006-2008.

 

Brian Anderson 142 K's/253 chances=57% chance of a strikeout

Josh Fields 142 K's/233 chances=61% chance of a strikeout

 

Does that mean that Brian Anderson is a better hitter than Josh Fields?

[witesoxfan]

I think Viciedo is probably struggling because he's seeing some of the best raw stuff he's ever seen in his entire life for the first time. Give him some time, and if he doesn't come around, drop him to W-S and see what happens there. Dude's still crazy young, and even if he's not ready until 2011, he'd still only be 22 years old (with only 2 years left on his contract, which is a problem, but still)

[Kyyle23]

Here's a statistic for you.

 

AT-BATS where the count reaches 2 strikes (0-2, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2)....performance from 2006-2008.

 

Brian Anderson 142 K's/253 chances=57% chance of a strikeout

Josh Fields 142 K's/233 chances=61% chance of a strikeout

 

Does that mean that Brian Anderson is a better hitter than Josh Fields?

 

and this has what to do with Latin players not performing in cold weather?

 

PS. you love to overreact from small sample sizes

Edited April 21, 2009 by kyyle23

[caulfield12]

Kyle, I think you need to see Sunshine Cleaning...that will brighten up your day.

[witesoxfan]

Here's a statistic for you.

 

AT-BATS where the count reaches 2 strikes (0-2, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2)....performance from 2006-2008.

 

Brian Anderson 142 K's/253 chances=57% chance of a strikeout

Josh Fields 142 K's/233 chances=61% chance of a strikeout

 

Does that mean that Brian Anderson is a better hitter than Josh Fields?

 

no it means he strikes out less than Josh Fields, but only slightly, when the count reaches two strikes

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Here's a statistic for you.

 

AT-BATS where the count reaches 2 strikes (0-2, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2)....performance from 2006-2008.

 

Brian Anderson 142 K's/253 chances=57% chance of a strikeout

Josh Fields 142 K's/233 chances=61% chance of a strikeout

 

Does that mean that Brian Anderson is a better hitter than Josh Fields?

 

 

What does this have to do with anything?

 

Adam Dunn struck out 195 times in 568 at bats in 2004. Does that mean he was the worst hitter of anyone with 568+ at bats in 2004?

 

That is just ridiculous logic (having nothing to do with the topic aside)

[Kyyle23]

Kyle, I think you need to see Sunshine Cleaning...that will brighten up your day.

 

Why, is that about Latin ballplayers in cold weather?

 

What does this have to do with anything?

 

Adam Dunn struck out 195 times in 568 at bats in 2004. Does that mean he was the worst hitter of anyone with 568+ at bats in 2004?

 

That is just ridiculous logic (having nothing to do with the topic aside)

 

You should see Sunshine cleaning too.

Edited April 21, 2009 by kyyle23

[bighurt4life]

you all need to play nice.

 

As far as Viciedo, I just read an article that says the biggest adjustments that cuban players have to make are the lifestyle which i'm sure is quite the culture shock for them and also the way the pitchers pitch. american pitchers work their pitches in different sequences and throw diff. stuff in certain situations than they do in cuba so it's a big change for him and he's just guessing at the plate right now.

 

I think the fact that he's not striking out a s*** ton and has a decent average tells me that he's not totally overmatched which is a really good sign considering that he's a 19 year old playing AA ball which is generally where you find the players with the most raw talent in any minor league level. I'll give him to the all star break, if he's regressing then you look to make a change, otherwise give the kid some time.

[JPN366]

He's only played 10 games so far, and the weather has been cold here and up near the Smokey Mountains. He has hit the ball hard and he does have some RBI's. Once he settles down, and stops swinging at everything, he'll be fine. The only thing that I've seen that I'd be concerned with is his defense at third.

[RibbieRubarb]

He's only played 10 games so far, and the weather has been cold here and up near the Smokey Mountains. He has hit the ball hard and he does have some RBI's. Once he settles down, and stops swinging at everything, he'll be fine. The only thing that I've seen that I'd be concerned with is his defense at third.

 

Carlos Lee was a 3rd Baseman in our system...I think Dayan will be in LF soon as well.

[BigSqwert]

Carlos Lee was a 3rd Baseman in our system...I think Dayan will be in LF soon as well.

Speaking of El Caballo, I'm glad to hear he wasn't one of the 21 horses that died yesterday.

[WCSox]

I'm sure its been discussed, but I'm also sure they would rather that Beckham put in some significant time in them minors before going all the way to the majors.

 

And again, let's just TRY to give Anderson a real shot here, since he's been pretty darn good since he took over as a starter. How many different "ideas" have we seen in the past week or two for CF? Wise on his return, Owens, Lillibridge, Alexei/Beckham move, etc. If in mid-May Anderson is hitting for crap, and Wise is back from the DL, then maybe it makes sense to revisit things.

 

Agreed on both counts. If Anderson is hitting around the Mendoza line two months from now, it might be time to make a move. If he's hitting .260 with some power, I don't see how Alexei in CF and an arguably-unprepared Beckham at SS improves the team.

 

[Cali]

I'm in favor of this.

 

I'm sick of the whole, Beckham needs more time in the minors stuff. The Sox are due for a top prospect to come up and rake and help the team. It's been too long.... Gordon is that man.

[Soxfest]

I would like Beckham stay in minors at least until all-start break!

[WCSox]

I'm in favor of this.

 

I'm sick of the whole, Beckham needs more time in the minors stuff. The Sox are due for a top prospect to come up and rake and help the team. It's been too long.... Gordon is that man.

 

Right, just like how Crede (who was projected by some to be the next Mike Schmidt) came up and raked immediately. Given that Beckham has only been using a wooden bat for a couple of months, I don't see why so many want him rushed into the bigs immediately.

Edited April 21, 2009 by WCSox

[scenario]

Before people get overly concerned about Viciedo's .238 average...

 

Please note that on Friday (three games ago), he was batting .310.

 

 

[JorgeFabregas]

This would be a defensive downgrade at two of the most important positions by most accounts.

Edited April 21, 2009 by JorgeFabregas

[ThunderBolt]

Wait, having two potentially premier offensive players at two traditionally non-hitting positions would be a downgrade?

[Reddy]

Before people get overly concerned about Viciedo's .238 average...

 

Please note that on Friday (three games ago), he was batting .310.

he's struggling mightily goddamnit!

[JorgeFabregas]

A defensive downgrade. I left that part out. Now edited. I think that offense is more important than defense, but we do have some pitchers who pitch to contact.