Bulls To Let Ben Gordon Go?

[ZoomSlowik]

See, here's the problem. The Bulls aren't the only team that pick in this year's draft.

 

Also they don't have a pick till 16, when Henderson and Ellington will both be gone.

 

And no Steph Curry for me, he's a college 6'1, which will likely "magically" transform to 5'9 once he gets to Pre-Draft camps. He'll be a marginally better version of JJ Reddick at the next level. Pass.

 

Henderson probably, Ellington that's probably the upper reaches of where he goes unless he works out well.

 

Either way, Evans is just a brutal fit with Rose. Both players need the ball in their hands to produce and neither is a particularly strong outside shooter.

[SoxFan562004]

Ben can contribute much to a team, but as many people have already pointed out the Bulls have tried to resign him for good money and he has turned it down. He is banking on having a crazy playoff run and some team signing him to a huge deal, which I just can't see happening.

[SoxFan562004]

we have to take the short term hit (next season) for the long term good... landing Lebron, DWade, or Bosh. Keeping Gordon long term (which I assume he wants) huts us. We will never win a title with a Rose/Gordon tandem.

I think the most realistic on that list is Bosh. Maybe something this offseason then an extension

[HuskyCaucasian]

I think the most realistic on that list is Bosh. Maybe something this offseason then an extension

I am praying for Bosh. I love Big Center / Good Guard combos. That makes Dang a real nice third player.

[JuiceCruz16]

Tell me how many teams win titles with a 6-3 shooting guard that doesn't get to the rim all that well.

 

I like BG as instant offense off the bench. I like BG if the price is right. But I don't want the Bulls to tie up a ton of money in a guy who, in my opinion, is not going to bring an NBA title to Chicago as your starting SG.

The Pistons with Vinnie Johnson coming off the bench as instant offense "the microwave".

 

[JuiceCruz16]

Gordon being 6'3? That's what they say. I've been at a Bulls game by the tunnel and he's my height and I'm 6'0.

 

But anyways. Ben really doesn't do anything except shoot. He's a fantastic scorer. But he doesn't play defense, give an attempt to rebound, or help other teammates score by finding an open man.

 

I'd love to keep him. But didn't he turn down a 5-55 deal? If he wants more then that, peace out.

I would prefer paying him then paying Hinrich or Deng though. Oooops!

 

The talk about Tyreke Evens I'm not sold on, but Wayne Ellington will most certainly be there at 16. Unless his stock grows by leaps and bounds he has been at best looked at at a low first round choice. Hey, as a Tarheel diehard I would love to see wayne cash in on his MOP, but without some great individual workouts he will be around for the Bulls to pass up as well.

Edited April 22, 2009 by JuiceCruz16

[SoxFan1]

See, here's the problem. The Bulls aren't the only team that pick in this year's draft.

 

Also they don't have a pick till 16, when Henderson and Ellington will both be gone.

 

And no Steph Curry for me, he's a college 6'1, which will likely "magically" transform to 5'9 once he gets to Pre-Draft camps. He'll be a marginally better version of JJ Reddick at the next level. Pass.

It's highly doubtful Ellington goes any time during the lottery. It's not even close to a lock that he won't be there at 16. And I realize other teams draft, thanks for the tidbit though. All I'm saying is what does Ben Gordon do or what does Ben Gordon have that those guy's don't?

[FedEx227]

Henderson probably, Ellington that's probably the upper reaches of where he goes unless he works out well.

 

Either way, Evans is just a brutal fit with Rose. Both players need the ball in their hands to produce and neither is a particularly strong outside shooter.

 

That's not entirely true. Evans had a great year from beyond the arc, can create his own shot (unlike Gordon) and doesn't need to have the ball in his hands at all times, he took over the PG duties because Memphis desperately needed scoring, that was the only reason.

 

He'd be a fine SG at the next level. Plays solid defense, well known for getting steals, + rebounder, ability to drive to the basket and above-average shooting ability.

 

Unfortunately mocks are all over the place right now, so I guess we'll wait and see.

 

The main problem I have with Ellington is he doesn't get to the line enough ala Gordon. Come playoff time there is no bigger weapon in the NBA then the ability to get to the free throw line. You don't win a championship chucking three pointers or mid-range jumpers. Ellington has never shown an ability to get to the line at a decent pace. Also his quickness is just average. NBA 2's need to have a ton of lateral quickness and I'm just not sure he has that.

Edited April 22, 2009 by FedEx227

[ZoomSlowik]

That's not entirely true. Evans had a great year from beyond the arc, can create his own shot (unlike Gordon) and doesn't need to have the ball in his hands at all times, he took over the PG duties because Memphis desperately needed scoring, that was the only reason.

 

He'd be a fine SG at the next level. Plays solid defense, well known for getting steals, + rebounder, ability to drive to the basket and above-average shooting ability.

 

Unfortunately mocks are all over the place right now, so I guess we'll wait and see.

 

Seriously? Since when is 27.4% from behind the arc "a great year"? He's not a good shooter at all, he gets the vast majority of his points on drives to the basket, often out of control when doing it. It's kind of hard to drive when you don't have the ball. Funny you should mention the move to PG, because before that move he was shooting about 40% from the floor and was still turning it over quite a bit. Gordon isn't as good a finisher on the drive as he is, but Ben is adept at getting open jumpers in various ways which he buries at a high rate.

 

Evans has great size and he's a pretty good ball-handler for a wing player. However, his shooting leaves a lot to be desired and many teams are concerned about his ball-hogging tendencies that make him very turnover prone. People also aren't really sold on his work ethic either. That's why despite the fact that he obviously has lottery-level tools that he's not a 100% lock to go in the lottery. On a bad team that needs someone to generate shots and try to take over he can be an asset, on a team that already has a developing franchise player there's a very real potential that he'll end up having a greatly reduced or negative impact, much like Quentin Richardson or Corey Maggette.

Edited April 22, 2009 by ZoomSlowik

[Ron]

I like Tyreke Evans alot, but I agree that he's a poor fit as far as replacing Ben Gordon.

 

At present, Evans doesn't play that well off the ball. As soon as Calipari moved him from the 2 guard to the point at Memphis, he and the team flourished. His shooting form needs a little work (inconsistent release, fades away on nearly every jumper) but he can get hot. He has good passing instincts and is an outstanding slasher.

 

I think if the Bulls were to draft Tyreke, the best fit would be as a back-up point. Trade Hinrich to create some cap space for the '10 Gold Rush and bring Evans off the bench. I believe his jumper will come around. He's such a dynamic talent that if he's there at #16, I'd have no problems with them taking him.

 

If the Bulls want Ellington, I think he'll be there with their second 1st rounder from the Thabo trade. I honestly think his Heel teammate Danny Green could be as good or better of a pro though. 6'6", plays great D, improved his stroke from 3 this season, a very solid guard.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Ron

[ZoomSlowik]

If the Bulls want Ellington, I think he'll be there with their second 1st rounder from the Thabo trade. I honestly think his Heel teammate Danny Green could be as good or better of a pro though. 6'6", plays great D, improved his stroke from 3 this season, a very solid guard.

 

I like Green a lot, he should be a very good starting wing player as long as he's the 4th or 5th scoring option. My only concern with him replacing Gordon would be the hit to the offense. A lineup of Rose-Green-Salmons/Deng-Thomas-Noah doesn't have a whole lot of firepower, Rose would have to create like 90% of the team's shots.

[Ron]

I don't think Green would begin as a starter with us. I honestly think he'll fall to the 2nd round and be one of this drafts' sleepers. So many GMs draft on athleticism and upside. Green is a solid, but not extraordinary athlete and I think he's seen as "a finished product". But you look over his time with UNC, he's improved every year. He's got a great work ethic. I think that will serve him well.

 

A guy I really want the Bulls to take is Louisville's Terrence Williams. The guy is a true stat stuffer (12ppg, 8rpg, 5apg, 2spg, .8bpg). Played point forward for the Cardinals, directing the offense while guarding 1's, 2's, 3's & occasionally 4's. Great athlete. His versatility could be a huge asset.

 

On topic, If Ben G will accept a reasonable offer, we should keep him. The main problem the Bulls are going to have is keeping Gordon and having the cap room to sign a Bosh or Stoudamire. It would most likely mean Hinrich or Deng is gonna be outta of here, and quick.

[Balta1701]

On topic, If Ben G will accept a reasonable offer, we should keep him. The main problem the Bulls are going to have is keeping Gordon and having the cap room to sign a Bosh or Stoudamire. It would most likely mean Hinrich or Deng is gonna be outta of here, and quick.

Here's the question. Let's assume we can move Hinrich for spare parts without sacrificing too much this year.

 

Given this choice, which option do you pick?

 

1. Having the cap space for a max offer in 2010

2. Signing Ben Gordon for something less than a max offer in 2009?

 

Sadly, you answer probably depends on how highly you value Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah. If you think they can develop significantly from what they did this year, then keeping BG7 as your shooting guard next to Rose is an obvious choice. If you think that they're going to continue to be inconsistent, regress, whatever, then you want to do everything you can to get your hands on Bosh.

[ZoomSlowik]

I don't think Green would begin as a starter with us. I honestly think he'll fall to the 2nd round and be one of this drafts' sleepers. So many GMs draft on athleticism and upside. Green is a solid, but not extraordinary athlete and I think he's seen as "a finished product". But you look over his time with UNC, he's improved every year. He's got a great work ethic. I think that will serve him well.

 

I was already budgeting in 20 games missed for Deng. I guess I did jump the gun, he won't start right away. Assuming Gordon leaves he'd have to absorb heavy minutes either way. I really think some playoff team looking for role players will grab him in the late 1st.

[GoodAsGould]

IM on the draft Dar Tucker bandwagon

[SoxFan562004]

The Pistons with Vinnie Johnson coming off the bench as instant offense "the microwave".

exact role that Gordon would be perfect for, however I don't think he seems himself as that, or at least wants significant money to fill that role

[nitetrain8601]

No. He's still bad defensively, doesn't know how to work around screens, and gets lazy on defense too often. But like I said, he's improved leaps and bounds the past few seasons.

 

Untrue. I don't get why this statement keeps coming up that he's bad on defense. He holds his position really well, especially given his height. He goes under screens because that's what VDN's defense calls for. All of our guards go under. And the one who gets lazy on defense is Rose. If Rose didn't coast like he does, he would be a dominant player on defense.

[nitetrain8601]

exact role that Gordon would be perfect for, however I don't think he seems himself as that, or at least wants significant money to fill that role

 

He doesn't mind coming off the bench. He was asked this directly on mouthpiecesports and stated anyway he can help the team is fine with him. He's never complained or b****ed about coming off the bench, it's just another myth that has been created.

 

The thing about bringing him off the bench, is, this team doesn't have anyone nearly enough good enough to keep him on the bench. How do you justify keeping, arguably, your best player, if not, second best player off the bench? Plus, his scoring is way too efficient to be bringing off the bench for any NBA team unless you're putting Kobe out there.

 

Really, it becomes a question of, can the Bulls find a way to dump KH or Deng in a salary dump so they avoid the luxury tax with Ben. I'd say, if it's possible to pull off, you do it because BG + star is going to cost you less than Deng + star. I'd be more inclined to keep Hinrich because he's still a good defensive player, and he's the perfect guard off the bench. Can play either position and is a good enough leader for the second unit.

 

Also, if I were to look to replace either Gordon or Deng, Evan Turner would be the guy I draft if he decides to come out this year, which he probably won't. If not, Terrance Williams. Tyreke Evans is yuck though.

[SoxFan1]

Jeez, take the Ben Gordon blinders of once in a while nite.

 

"I don't get why this statement keeps coming up that he's bad on defense." Maybe because he's bad on defense? I proved you wrong the last time when you said he was a great defender.

 

I want to say pages 97-102 in the NBA thread?

 

But most specifically this.

[iamshack]

Why do people keep saying BG can't create his own shot though? He creates his own shots all the time. Sure, he dribbles it off his knee alot when he drives, and can't finish too well at the rim, but that shouldn't be confused with creating his own shot. I've seen him create his own shots time and time again...

[Kyyle23]

Why do people keep saying BG can't create his own shot though? He creates his own shots all the time. Sure, he dribbles it off his knee alot when he drives, and can't finish too well at the rim, but that shouldn't be confused with creating his own shot. I've seen him create his own shots time and time again...

 

I think its because he runs off a lot of screens to get shots, which isnt a bad thing. You are right, he can create his own shot as well, but the Bulls like to get him wide open off of some screens so he doesnt have a big hand in his face

[iamshack]

I think its because he runs off a lot of screens to get shots, which isnt a bad thing. You are right, he can create his own shot as well, but the Bulls like to get him wide open off of some screens so he doesnt have a big hand in his face

 

Right, I mean, what basketball team doesn't try to get their best pure shooter open looks by screening his man?

 

But there are plenty of times when he creates his own shots out on the perimeter...because of his size, he has learned to shoot the ball with a high trajectory...and that definitely has helped him be able to shoot over bigger defenders...it's amazing how many shots he hits when there is that much air between the ball and the rim when he shoots it...

[Balta1701]

Why do people keep saying BG can't create his own shot though? He creates his own shots all the time. Sure, he dribbles it off his knee alot when he drives, and can't finish too well at the rim, but that shouldn't be confused with creating his own shot. I've seen him create his own shots time and time again...

I think the thing that was missing from the Bulls for about 5 years was having someone who could not only create their own shot but who could break the defense down and create shots for others. BG7 can create his own shot, but he's better off if you mix him creating his own shot with other people creating shots for him by drawing double teams or by breaking a defense down by getting in to the lane. Hence; you want him playing alongside either; a low post scoring threat like Gasol or Garnett (Why did people keep wanting them again?) or alongside a point guard who is dismantling the defense on his own (can we get one of those?).

[chw42]

Ben's nothing but a shooter. He doesn't do much of anything else. I won't be too sad to see him go. Salmons can be just as good of a scorer as him and provides better defense. You just have to pray that Luol Deng comes back to 2006-2007 form and put him at SF.

Edited April 23, 2009 by chw42

[Balta1701]

Simmons on Gordon:

You have to love any series in which Ben Gordon finally realizes his destiny as a playoff killer. As a Celtics fan, I'm terrified. As a basketball fan, I'm titillated. But it was always meant to be. Even if comparisons to Vinnie "Microwave" Johnson make more sense on paper, I'd liken him more to a shorter Andrew Toney. Vinnie was called "The Microwave" for a reason -- either he got hot right away, or they unplugged him. Toney was a more substantial player. Everyone remembers Moses and Doc carrying the '82-83 Sixers to a title; nobody except Philly fans remember that they ran every big play for Toney that season. That makes Gordon either a rich man's Microwave or a poor man's Toney.

 

Either way, he shares two qualities with them: He can silence a crowd to the point that it feels like someone just muted your TV, and he cannot be defended when he catches fire. In Game 2, Boston double-teamed him on Chicago's final possession and Gordon still scored on an uncontested shot. Again, he had two defenders flanking him and they KNEW he had to shoot. Has there ever been a shorter player who got better shots in traffic?

 

He finished with the ultimate Ben Gordon box score: 41 points, one rebound, no assists. This is why nobody touched him last summer. He does one thing and that's it. He is always happiest when he's the one scoring. When the ship is sinking, he's like Billy Zane in "Titanic" -- one of the first guys to jump off. This is what scares GMs, and this is why a team that could desperately use someone like him (say, the Zombie Sonics) might be afraid to spend for him. Especially in this economy.

 

All I know is this: Only a few current players can win two games per playoff series by themselves, and he's one of them. If the goal is to win the title and not just compete for one, then I want Ben Gordon on my team. It's as simple as that. My father has been attending Boston playoff games since 1974 and ranked Gordon's Game 2 performance up there with the best of Toney, Microwave and Nick Weatherspoon -- probably the Mount Rushmore of "Streaky Scorers Who Annihilated the Celtics In a Playoff Series" -- saying simply, "We just couldn't stop him." And we couldn't.