Contreras

[Chisoxfn]

That's a great point, especially with his strikeout numbers plummeting.

It was those strikeouts that kept him in games, because he constantly had runners in scoring position. A walk is a double and he essentially is giving up about 4 doubles a game via the base on balls and than pretty much any single turns into a double. Its hard to get by for an extended time when you do that and don't have strikeout stuff. I've yet to see a good fork ball out of him either and his fastball and other secondary stuff (plus his command) are nowhere near good enough to be successful in the bigs without that fork.

 

The problem is that despite what people might believe, the Sox really don't have great internal options for there rotation. Floyd/Buehrle/Danks are all rock solid but most scouts would tell you there are a lot of flaws with Poreda as a starter (not many as a reliever though) and Marquez has a long ways to go (I personally am not a fan, he has a long long ways to go) and well Broadway is really our best internal option, imo. Broadway has good movement, numerous pitches, including a very solid curve, and as a whole I actually think with time you could see him having a very solid career as a league average starter. The guys in the Sox system that pitch that I like are all too far away to make the rotation (there are relievers that I like too).

 

Richard is the wild card. The guy can look phenomenal at times and he has pretty good stuff, but his command needs to improve and he needs an additional pitch if he's going to stick in the rotation. However, Kenny better be ready to be agressive and its why I thought the Sox should have looked at bringing back Garland given the price.

 

Note: I'm not about to write Jose off though. The guy was removed from baseball for a while and didn't have a full spring. He deserves 2-3 more starts and I hope he gets better each and every start.

[Reddy]

guys seriously.

 

it's early.

 

he's coming back from a massive injury.

 

cool your jets.

[greg775]

I cant stand watching Contreras attempt to pitch any longer. This guy hasn't been good since the first half of 2006 or whenever it was. His splitter is either in the dirt or in the bleachers, he leaves his fast ball up...I cant stand it! Can we get him out and bring up some young talent that will be at least fun to watch? I dont care who it is, I just dont want to watch Contreras get rocked any longer...Poreda, Marquez, anyone can do what Contreras is doing right now...get them the big league experience.

 

THe premise of the post was how difficult it is to watch him pitch. You have to admit it is pretty maddening watching him pitch. I wonder why more pitchers don't copy Mark B and get the ball and deliver it.

I thought Oz gave a good quote in the AP story:

 

“He’s got to figure it out,” White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen said. “It was a pretty bad game, walking people, not getting guys out. He walked the leadoff guy in like three different innings.”

Guillen said he has not decided whether Contreras will remain part of the rotation.

“I felt fine,” Contreras said through an interpreter. “The last three innings, I left the ball up and they took advantage. That’s when the runs came.”

 

 

[ThunderBolt]

It's starting to look like one of CR/AP might be our best option. I love Contreras but if he's done, he's done.

[Felix]

OK...you're all right. Let's trot Marquez out there. All I'm saying is before you run Jose off...how bout you give him til May?!? Or is that too much to ask from this group?...nevermind.

Contreras hasn't been good for awhile, this isn't new news. Unfortunately, we're stuck with him, especially since we don't have any better options.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Felix

[RockRaines]

LOL, "he needs to step up or else."

 

He's back from a long time off and is our 5th starter, give me a break. Last night he faced a lineup of almost entirely lefties. As all of us experts know, his out pitch to lefties is his forkball, which hasnt come around yet this season. He will come around and go on a hot streak, I have no doubt about it. The good signs are the life on his fastball and his early ability to at least control his 2-seamer to righties.

[BigSqwert]

I'd rather plug this guy in over Contreras.

[caulfield12]

BALTIMORE — Wildness hampered Jose Contreras' quest Tuesday night for his first victory of the season.

 

Whether he gets another shot as a starter may be up for debate after he allowed six walks in a 10-3 loss at Baltimore.

 

"He has to figure it out, not me," manager Ozzie Guillen said after the Orioles scored eight runs in their final four innings after Contreras failed to protect a 3-2 lead.

 

"It was a pretty bad game. He was walking people, not getting left-handed hitters out."

 

White Sox-Orioles box score Guillen said he, general manager Ken Williams and pitching coach Don Cooper will assess Contreras' status Wednesday.

 

But Contreras has hit a bump in each of his three starts — all losses.

 

"I feel fine," Contreras said. "I just left the ball up, and they took advantage.

 

"I was rushing and opening up and left the ball up." mark gonzales/trib

 

 

There was a note in the article about Richard feeling more comfortable as a starter, but we all know how that will work out the 2nd and 3rd time around the order.

 

They have to give Contreras at least 2-3 more starts. Maybe Ozzie's just trying to light a fire under him.

Edited April 22, 2009 by caulfield12

[lostfan]

Contreras lost his command. He was all over the place tonight. But I don't know what it is about the Sox but for some reason whenever were facing a no name on the mound we can’t hit the guy for the life of us.

In fairness to our lineup, the rookie we saw last night (I forgot his name) is one of the o's better prospects and there are some decent expectations of him.

[caulfield12]

Tillman is a better prospect, but those who were posting his (Bergesen's) BB and K numbers through 9 IP were a bit suprised by his stuff last night...and so were the White Sox.

Edited April 22, 2009 by caulfield12

[RockRaines]

Clayton Richard should stay in the bullpen where he belongs. Contreras will be fine, its f***ing April.

[NorthSideSox72]

I actually watched the game last night, seeing what Contreras had. His forkballs ended up well short of the plate a lot, but when he got the grip right, they were active and near or in the zone. His fastball wasn't at its fastest, but was close. His slider, especially from the side, was effective most of the time.

 

I don't often say this, but, I agree with Hawk's assessment last night - I think JC is close to putting it back together after a long time off. His pitches are moving, he still has velocity, he just isn't precise yet. I think he'll get there, given another few starts.

 

[kapkomet]

Count's start with Detroit, I thought he pitched really well that day. You can tell he gets gassed, though about the third time through the lineup. That's when he starts leaving his pitches up and opening up more. I don't know if it's a stamina thing or if it's a mental thing. It seems to me his velocity is there but his control isn't - and I'll take that scenario, if he can get himself back into the right rythym late in games.

[Dick Allen]

Carlton Fisk was hitting .202 on June 1, 1983. He wound up 2nd or 3rd in MVP voting. I don't understand the need to bash Contreras right now. He most likely was going to struggle just as Colon will probably get knocked around a little bit. They are both coming off injuries, are a little older, and had a less than full spring training.

 

Patience. Its not like the Sox have better options. Egbert gets brought up with an ERA over 6.00 and he promptly now has an ERA of 18.00. Richard has been hot and cold. I think its best to give these guys another month and if either is struggling then make some sort of adjustment. Hopefully someone, somewhere in the organization will have shown they can get the job done by then.

[RockRaines]

Count's start with Detroit, I thought he pitched really well that day. You can tell he gets gassed, though about the third time through the lineup. That's when he starts leaving his pitches up and opening up more. I don't know if it's a stamina thing or if it's a mental thing. It seems to me his velocity is there but his control isn't - and I'll take that scenario, if he can get himself back into the right rythym late in games.

He should have been yanked after about 80 pitches last night, he was clearly tired.

[kapkomet]

He should have been yanked after about 80 pitches last night, he was clearly tired.

I didn't see last night - but I do think you're helping me make my point.

 

I think JC's "stuff" is there, he just needs to dial it in.

[southsider2k5]

I didn't see last night - but I do think you're helping me make my point.

 

I think JC's "stuff" is there, he just needs to dial it in.

 

And if conditioning is a factor, he needs to get his pitches in if he is going to get past it. Pulling him after 80 pitches isn't going to get him in shape to go 110.

[daa84]

runs given up in 3 games started by Jose: 31

runs given up in the other 10 games: 26

[southsideirish71]

He should have been yanked after about 80 pitches last night, he was clearly tired.

 

He was left in a few batters too late. We need to keep from comparing him to the dominating pitcher he once was, and now realize he is a 5th starter. When you have a 5th going out there you want him to battle and compete. Give you 5 to 6 and keep it close. He did that, Guillen just left him in too long. And then Richard came in to detonate it. Guillen just needs a quicker hook with Jose.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2009 by southsideirish71

[LVSoxFan]

Why can't we have this guy?

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/21/...tr=HOME_4959337

[tonyho7476]

runs given up in 3 games started by Jose: 31

runs given up in the other 10 games: 26

 

Wow...that about sums it up.

[BigSqwert]

Why can't we have this guy?

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/21/...tr=HOME_4959337

I already linked him above.

[SoxFan562004]

A huge problem with Jose in starts this year and Colon in his last start is Ozzie is not treating them like 4th and 5th starters. He is acting like they are in their prime. I still think both can contribute, Ozzie just needs a quicker hook with them. Jose gave them 5 good innings yesterday, maybe in his career that is what you're going to get, Ozzie can't just leave them in there

[caulfield12]

The problem Ozzie has is obvious...when you have only Egbert, MacDougal and DJ Carrasco as depth, it's a no-win situation.

 

If you start pulling Contreras and Colon every game in the 5th or 6th inning, then your bullpen will be toast...and we have very little minor league depth to cover up for it. Let's say Dotel enters last night in the 6th inning. We can't end up having Dotel/Thornton/Linebrink/Jenks pitch four innings every time these games are close (tied, down one run, etc.) You just can't do that.

 

We saw what happened to Egbert last night, and Richard hasn't been very consistent either, although I might agree with all the LH's and switch hitters that Richard was PROBABLY a better option than Jose, but he didn't get it done either last night.

[jasonxctf]

There needs to be a dedicated long reliever in the pen who can go 3 IP in both Contreras/Colon starts, assuming they make it through 5IP. (Carrasco or Egbert) They are now penciled in as #3/#5 due to moving Danks a day earlier this month. So you've got a day's rest in between, if not more due to rain outs/travel days/days off. The plan for each start should be minimum of 5, maximum of 7, with Carrasco or Egbert ready to go when needed.

 

Buehrle, Floyd, Danks should all be able to give 6-7IP/start and you turn it over to Dotel, Linebrink, Thornton, Jenks