Ozzie's vendetta continues....

[lostfan]

i've been watching BA's at-bats closely since he's taken over the starting role, and one thing i've noticed (primarily) is he's not chasing the breaking balls away

 

watch his at-bats yesterday against halladay, he was being busted inside over and over with that two-seam fastball, and then halladay would go off the plate away with what looked like a cutter or some type of breaking ball (maybe a slider), and BA would lay off of them

 

in all of his at-bats, it looked as though he knew he was being set up by the pitcher, they were nice to see and unlike any other AB's i've seen him take as a sox player

I was just impressed by the fact that he was holding it down against Roy f***ing Halladay. In the past he would've just folded and struck out 2-3 times.

[Melissa1334]

i hate how ozzie makes it seem like wise is an established player or something. wise hasnt done sh** for the sox except hit a few hrs last year and make a great catch this year. he sucked last year, he sucked in ST and he was in the games he did play in this year. he is what he is, a AAA player. theres a reason nobody wanted him and why no one wants him now. he was playing good before he got hurt? b.s.

[Dick Allen]

i hate how ozzie makes it seem like wise is an established player or something. wise hasnt done sh** for the sox except hit a few hrs last year and make a great catch this year. he sucked last year, he sucked in ST and he was in the games he did play in this year. he is what he is, a AAA player. theres a reason nobody wanted him and why no one wants him now. he was playing good before he got hurt? b.s.

That's the problem I have with it. Its fine saying BA really hasn't established himself, but what will really make this guy better is not having to worry about an 0-8 streak sending him permanently to the bench. BA hasn't earned the full time job yet, but neither had Wise.

 

Still, its a non story until Wise gets back and if Ozzie gives him the starting job back even if BA continues to impress. We really have to wait until then to see if Ozzie was just filling some dead air.

[MO2005]

Ozzie does not like Brian Anderson! This is why..The guy should be traded now because we may get something decent for him!

[Melissa1334]

Ozzie does not like Brian Anderson! This is why..The guy should be traded now because we may get something decent for him!

lol we shall wait and see what ozzie does. no way he benches BA with the way hes playing now.

[knightni]

Thats because you are his clone, and if you hated BA, then you would hate yourself, and that would be unfortunate

^^^^^^^^^

[Flash Tizzle]

Guillen should be giving this same speech to Ramirez by suggesting when Nix returns everything may be reevaluated. If it's all about motivation and not having him Anderson feell comfortable, we may as well apply it to other positions, right?

[caulfield12]

Nix wasn't the starter at 2B. And he's barely played SS at all. Brian was not 2nd in the ROY voting in 2006, and Ramirez also has 62.5% of the number of grand slams Albert Pujols has accumulated playing in nearly a decade of games.

 

Second, Wise was 5 for 13 (.385) and made an amazing, possibly game-saving catch in DET, that's what Ozzie meant when he said he (Wise) was playing well (after he moved out of the leadoff spot).

 

Third, the earliest Wise could come back to the team would be mid-June, so Anderson will have had at least two full months to make whatever impression he is going to on Ozzie and KW, in terms of organizational plans for the future (trade for another CF, platoon BA with Wise, release Wise and/or Owens, let Anderson play until Shelby or Jordan Danks beat him out, etc.).

Edited April 27, 2009 by caulfield12

[Texsox]

I really wish this debate was over two guys who would be stars on most teams, instead of two guys that would be backups on half the teams in baseball.

[Flash Tizzle]

Nix wasn't the starter at 2B. And he's barely played SS at all. Brian was not 2nd in the ROY voting in 2006, and Ramirez also has 62.5% of the number of grand slams Albert Pujols has accumulated playing in nearly a decade of games.

 

Second, Wise was 5 for 13 (.385) and made an amazing, possibly game-saving catch in DET, that's what Ozzie meant when he said he (Wise) was playing well (after he moved out of the leadoff spot).

 

Third, the earliest Wise could come back to the team would be mid-June, so Anderson will have had at least two full months to make whatever impression he is going to on Ozzie and KW, in terms of organizational plans for the future (trade for another CF, platoon BA with Wise, release Wise and/or Owens, let Anderson play until Shelby or Jordan Danks beat him out, etc.).

You're good at including random, almost useless facts into your posts. Who cares about the number of grand slams he has had in comparison with Pujols?

 

13 Abs shouldn't mean anything, but if he determines that to be good sample of determining whether someone was playing good, then so be it.

 

The entire point here is if motivation is the key to why Guillen is suggesting Anderson's role in CF may be reevaluated at a later time, why not Ramirez as well? Couldn't you just as easily say after a full season scouting reports have determined Alexi's weaknesses, and as of yet, he has yet to adjust? Up until these last two days, it's not even as if he has had good ABs. They have been atrocious. Let's not ignore his defense, either. It reminds me of people who have confidence in Contreras because of what he did in the past. The past is gone, and there's no guarantee what happened before will happen again. Especially with Contreras and his disintegrating body. With Alexi, however, you just can't sit on his accomplishments of last year and give him a pass if his struggles continue.

 

We don't have any other quality options for SS, but what I feel is even if you have NO intention on removing Ramirez, why not atleast give him a feeling you would? Is this not what many people in this thread are suggesting with the entire "light a fire, keep him motivated" argument?

Edited April 27, 2009 by Flash Tizzle

[scenario]

The entire point here is if motivation is the key to why Guillen is suggesting Anderson's role in CF may be reevaluated at a later time, why not Ramirez as well?

 

I believe it's a mistake to think everyone should be 'handled' the same way. It's as true in the 'real world' as it is in sports.

 

When you're trying to get the most out of people:

- Some people are better motivated by having a fire held under their ***.

- Some are better handled with kid gloves.

 

So, what looks like unfair and unequal treatment to outsiders might be exactly what's needed when you take player personalities into account. (Remember how Phil Jackson used to ride Horace Grant? It's because he figured out that when he didn't, Grant tended to take games off mentally. And that to get the most out of him required constantly pushing him. Maybe the Sox approach to Brian is similar.)

Edited April 27, 2009 by scenario

[RockRaines]

And the overreactions to media quotes continues!!!!

[fathom]

And the overreactions to media quotes continues!!!!

 

And if Anderson struggles and goes 5 for his next 40, there will be people on here that blame Ozzie for putting too much pressure on him. Hopefully Anderson's matured, and this is a non-issue.

[caulfield12]

You're good at including random, almost useless facts into your posts. Who cares about the number of grand slams he has had in comparison with Pujols?

 

13 Abs shouldn't mean anything, but if he determines that to be good sample of determining whether someone was playing good, then so be it.

 

The entire point here is if motivation is the key to why Guillen is suggesting Anderson's role in CF may be reevaluated at a later time, why not Ramirez as well? Couldn't you just as easily say after a full season scouting reports have determined Alexi's weaknesses, and as of yet, he has yet to adjust? Up until these last two days, it's not even as if he has had good ABs. They have been atrocious. Let's not ignore his defense, either. It reminds me of people who have confidence in Contreras because of what he did in the past. The past is gone, and there's no guarantee what happened before will happen again. Especially with Contreras and his disintegrating body. With Alexi, however, you just can't sit on his accomplishments of last year and give him a pass if his struggles continue.

 

We don't have any other quality options for SS, but what I feel is even if you have NO intention on removing Ramirez, why not atleast give him a feeling you would? Is this not what many people in this thread are suggesting with the entire "light a fire, keep him motivated" argument?

 

Being voted 2nd in the Rookie of the Year voting doesn't count for anything? Or you don't like the Pujols comparison, haha.

 

Last time I checked, there was only 6 months separating Alexei with Anderson in age. In other words, he has proven something in his career, heretofore, and Anderson has not...unless you want to go along with those who think he rescued the White Sox season with the "amazing/awe-inspiring/jaw-dropping" catch in the final game against Minnesota last year.

 

Ramirez has proven he can be an everyday player, Anderson, up until the past 10 days, has never done that.

 

Ramirez just had one horrible game defensively, and now all of a sudden he's the worst SS in the American League. Up until that game, he was surprisingly effective defensively, and the main reason people weren't calling for him to be benched is because we had nobody to play that position but....gasp....Brent Lillibridge, who, despite his looking like a Mormon Tabernacle Youth Choir member and being really fast and making some snazzy defensive plays, none of these really qualify taking away Ramirez's position.

 

In other words, there's not really any other option for SS than Alexei Ramirez, unless you're suggesting they bench him for Beckham (which would mean Beckham would be promoted much more quickly than either Frank Thomas or Robin Ventura to the major league team).

 

Finally, a good manager (in any sport) knows that you can't push the same button with every player, just like Scott Skiles wasn't effective at all getting through to the likes of Tyrus Thomas and J. Noah. Alexei obviously was down in the dumps and pressing and hanging his head, to blast him and make him feel worse would obviously not be the appropriate move, there. This is exactly why Ozzie has been a good manager, because he has a better feel for the motivational/psychological/off-field side of things than almost any other manager. For Brian Anderson, there's a list of 10-15 players that have never played better for any other team in the majors than the White Sox Imagine, Lou Piniella was afraid to tell Soriano he was being moved to 3rd in the order, so he had Gerald Perry do it. Can you imagine Ozzie making a change like that and not doing it personally?

 

Nix has little experience playing SS, period. And Beckham already has six errors in only 16 games played.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Can you imagine Ozzie making a change like that and not doing it personally?

 

Absolutely. Ozzie will be the first to tell you he has others tell players they have been traded or released, or sent to the minors. He cannot do it. I'm not a big Ozzie guy, but I don't consider not having the heart to tell someone something like that to be a bad thing .

 

If BA continues to play like he's been playing, even if his average drops, which is obviously very likely, he won't be replaced. Especially by the likes of Dewayne Wise. Good ABs is all he needs.

[caulfield12]

And if Anderson struggles and goes 5 for his next 40, there will be people on here that blame Ozzie for putting too much pressure on him. Hopefully Anderson's matured, and this is a non-issue.

 

 

At this point, it doesn't matter what BA does for the rest of his career with the White Sox.

 

If he succeeds, it will be in spite or despite Ozzie.

 

If he fails or is traded, it will be because Ozzie destroyed his career/confidence or now he "called him out and warned him the job wasn't automatically his (when he returned)."

 

Seriously, the guy (Wise) did everything expected of him last year, he was unfairly put in the position of leadoff hitter, was booed for two games...he gives everything he has and lays out for a flyball, possibly saving the game....and his manager thanks him by saying, "Well, that Wise guy, he filled a big hole when Nicky tanked last year, but now that he's injured and Brian is playing like an All-Star, we'll just quietly release him and Jerry Owens. I don't even know why he's trying to rehab, because there's no place for him on this team, and, based on the back of his baseball card, he'd be lucky in this economy to get a job with UPS. Just a bad break for him, but I can't waste a spot for him on the roster, not when we have the weakest bench in the majors as is and I'm terribly underutilizing Wilson Betemit."

 

I think the only way we'll really know will be what happens with his career after he leaves the White Sox...that people will really be able to look at him objectively and see the "forest for the trees" in this argument.

 

Time has shown the White Sox have made very few mistakes in letting players go. Right now, and you can argue about Ryan Sweeney or Chris B. Young, but Frank Francisco's about the only pitcher we have traded that would find a place on the 2009 White Sox roster.

Edited April 27, 2009 by caulfield12

[fathom]

Time has shown the White Sox have made very few mistakes in letting players go. Right now, and you can argue about Ryan Sweeney or Chris B. Young, but Frank Francisco's about the only pitcher we have traded that would find a place on the 2009 White Sox roster.

 

I'll gladly take Aardsma on this roster instead of some of the crap we have out there in the pen.

[caulfield12]

Absolutely. Ozzie will be the first to tell you he has others tell players they have been traded or released, or sent to the minors. He cannot do it. I'm not a big Ozzie guy, but I don't consider not having the heart to tell someone something like that to be a bad thing .

 

If BA continues to play like he's been playing, even if his average drops, which is obviously very likely, he won't be replaced. Especially by the likes of Dewayne Wise. Good ABs is all he needs.

 

 

Well, that's different. Because that's the worst thing for any manager, to tell someone it's all over or they're being traded/released. I am sure he really hated being in that situation with Pablo Ozuna. Guillen has remarked about the difficulty of this aspect of managing on more than one occasion.

 

But I can guarantee if Alexei or Brian have to lead off in the next week, Ozzie will be the one to tell them, not Greg Walker, Joe Cowley or Harold Baines.

Edited April 27, 2009 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

I'll gladly take Aardsma on this roster instead of some of the crap we have out there in the pen.

 

 

I think this one was Cooper's decision, based on the fact there was so much resistance about developing David's offspeed stuff.

 

What will undoubtedly happen is that Aardsma will do well for a couple of months in non-pressure situations, then he'll crack (not unlike Boone Logan) and just disappear mentally and not even seem like the same pitcher again for the rest of the season. Who knows, maybe he will just "find it" like Thornton did after one film session and day working with Cooper, but a reliever who doesn't throw 101-102 can't get away with just a fastball.

 

Logan, Sisco and Aardsma are the three "strikes" against Cooper, but it's not like Boone stormed into Atlanta and became the closer there.

[Dick Allen]

Well, that's different. Because that's the worst thing for any manager, to tell someone it's all over or they're being traded/released. I am sure he really hated being in that situation with Pablo Ozuna. Guillen has remarked about the difficulty of this aspect of managing on more than one occasion.

 

But I can guarantee if Alexei or Brian have to lead off in the next week, Ozzie will be the one to tell them, not Greg Walker, Joe Cowley or Harold Baines.

Pinella talked to Soriano about moving down in the line-up at their convention. I doubt Lou Piniella is afraid of Soriano. This is a man who fought Rob Dibble. I don't know how you can guarantee what Ozzie would say. I don't think Ozzie can guarantee what he would say.

[thedoctor]

And the overreactions to media quotes continues!!!!

 

^word.

[southsider2k5]

I think this one was Cooper's decision, based on the fact there was so much resistance about developing David's offspeed stuff.

 

What will undoubtedly happen is that Aardsma will do well for a couple of months in non-pressure situations, then he'll crack (not unlike Boone Logan) and just disappear mentally and not even seem like the same pitcher again for the rest of the season. Who knows, maybe he will just "find it" like Thornton did after one film session and day working with Cooper, but a reliever who doesn't throw 101-102 can't get away with just a fastball.

 

Logan, Sisco and Aardsma are the three "strikes" against Cooper, but it's not like Boone stormed into Atlanta and became the closer there.

 

I'll take the successes of guys like John Danks, Jose Contreras, Esteban Loiaza, and Gavin Floyd if it means failures like that bunch any day.

[knightni]

Aardsma love? ha!

[fathom]

Aardsma love? ha!

 

I have to say, I had no idea Aardsma had an ERA over 16 after the ASB last year. With that said, I'd still rather have him over MacDougal or Egbert or Broadway or anyone else we've had as the last man in the bullpen.

[WCSox]

I have to say, I had no idea Aardsma had an ERA over 16 after the ASB last year. With that said, I'd still rather have him over MacDougal or Egbert or Broadway or anyone else we've had as the last man in the bullpen.

 

I'll take a pass on Aaaaardsma.