Anemic White Sox offense in the last 8 games...

[caulfield12]

In 6 of the last 8 games, we've been shut out once and were almost shut out twice.

 

We were almost on pace to be shut out 32 times this season.

 

In those six games, the only victory the miracle this afternoon where all our baserunners (in the entire game) and hits were salvaged by Konerko's clutch GW double with two outs, our offense has put up 35 hits in 190 at-bats for a .184 average.

 

If you add the two routs (25 for 74), it only raises the average to .227 over that time span, but still pretty horrible.

 

Is anyone concerned? Is Thome just not going to be the same hitter we're used to? Is Chris Getz going to get the "fragile" label? Will Owens and Lillibridge ever contribute offensively as starting players? Will Betemit be used enough where he can even give you quality at-bats as a PH at some point this season?

 

Yes, there's the weather. Yes, there's Felix Hernandez. But we've also been shut down by the likes of Bergesen, Tallet, Eaton and Jakabauskas, a former infielder not too far removed from Florence and the Frontier League. Two of those guys had 7+ ERA's and Bergesen was making his major league debut.

 

Has the Greg Walker lift-and-pull school ruined some of our hitters?

 

If you've watched most of the games, the only hitters who are consistently taking pitches where they are pitched and NOT rolling their wrists are Konerko and Getz. Fields, who you'd like to see use his power and turn on some balls (like he did in ST), is now primarily an opposite field hitter, but he needs to hit for power to make up for his defensive lapses.

 

Fields, Anderson and Lillibridge still have huge swings, as does Ramirez. Quentin is trying to jack every single pitch out of the park, ala Thome. AJ looks horrific these days.

 

I just wonder (and I know Ozzie won't make an in-season change) if it wouldn't be the best thing for the White Sox and our future young prospects (Beckham, Allen, Flowers, Viciedo, Shelby, Danks, etc.) if we brought in a new hitting coach for 2010.

 

Beckham and Allen are definitely not pull hitters, and Tyler Flowers has power to all fields, as does Viciedo.

 

I just hope that we see a different "era" of White Sox hitting start to emerge (no, not the Miller/Lillibridge/Owens one) in the next couple of years, one that's not completely reliant on waiting for warm weather and kind winds from May through September.

 

Yes, they won the 2-1 game earlier today, but that was an anomaly, because the defense really tried to give that game back to the M's.

 

Thoughts?

Edited April 29, 2009 by caulfield12

[fathom]

Thome can't be counted on, as he's getting a new injury every few weeks. Greg Walker sucks at his job, and I actually agree with you that with our new wave of players coming up, it would be nice to see a new point of view from the Hitting Coach position. PK is giving us the best at bats of anyone right now, which is nice to see after last year.

Edited April 29, 2009 by fathom

[fathom]

BTW, you asked if Owens and Lillibridge will ever contribute offensively. I honestly don't think they'd be a positive offensive contributor in the Frontier League. It's embarrassing to the team and to the fans that they're on the 25 man roster. I can't wait for the day we release Lillibridge, and no one claims him and he ends up leading off for the White Sox a month later.

[caulfield12]

It seems Konerko has saved Dye's butt 2-3 times already this season by picking him up with two outs and RISP.

 

AJ has, what, 2 RBI's? How is that even possible with the OBP from the middle of our line-up? At that rate, he'll have 16 all season.

 

You just have the feeling that Getz will have lost all the momentum from his hitting streak and we'll get nothing from the leadoff spot the next 3-5 games, and we're going to really need to manufacture some runs with so many upcoming games against the Rangers. Thankfully, the infield hasn't had a chance to bake to a golden Ore-Ida brown yet or we'd really be in trouble.

 

Our "fast" players like Lillibridge and Owens can't get on base, so they're basically useless now. Well, Owens has always been since his hot streak in 2007, and 98% of the board hard doubts about Lillibridge's offensive ability coming off of last year.

Edited April 29, 2009 by caulfield12

[BearSox]

Would it be too early to put Konerko back in the 4 spot? Right now he's our best hitter, and our best hitter with RISP. But right now he's hitting really good in the 5-6 spot, and we shouldn't want to mess with that... but Dye's been pretty bad the past couple of days.

 

Also, we should really move Fields back down to the 7 or 8 spot. I'd rather have Anderson bat second. Or hopefully with Alexei heating up, he'd be a good option in the 2-hole. If we don't hit again tomorrow, I'd say our friday lineup, if Thome is healthy, should look like:

 

2B Getz

SS Ramirez

LF Quentin

1B Konerko

DH Thome

RF Dye

3B Fields

C Pierzynski

CF Anderson

Edited April 29, 2009 by BearSox

[fathom]

2B Getz

SS Ramirez

LF Quentin

1B Konerko

DH Thome

RF Dye

3B Fields

C Pierzynski

CF Anderson

 

I like it, but don't mind Thome 4th because it should theoretically put someone on base 40 pct of the time for Dye/Konerko. Fields batting 2nd is just stupid, and I feel like he's changed his approach because of it. He's worthless if he's just a slap hitter.

[Dick Allen]

The first game tonight, the line-up with Owens leading off and Miller and Lillibridge at the bottom was weak. In the second game, you were facing a top tier pitcher and had BA leading off. Sorry, that is a line-up that isn't supposed to score runs. No one should be shocked. If Quentin, Dye and/or Konerko don't come up big on Tuesday night, there's nothing much left.

[Kalapse]

Alexei is 2 for his last 10 and had one of the worst ABs of his career today, he has no business hitting second. With that said, Fields has no business hitting 2nd either and needs to be moved out of there tomorrow.

[qwerty]

Alexei is 2 for his last 10 and had one of the worst ABs of his career today, he has no business hitting second. With that said, Fields has no business hitting 2nd either and needs to be moved out of there tomorrow.

 

Pierzynksi the best option whether we like it or not, sadly.

Edited April 29, 2009 by qwerty

[BearSox]

BTW, you asked if Owens and Lillibridge will ever contribute offensively. I honestly don't think they'd be a positive offensive contributor in the Frontier League. It's embarrassing to the team and to the fans that they're on the 25 man roster. I can't wait for the day we release Lillibridge, and no one claims him and he ends up leading off for the White Sox a month later.

Personally, I got no problem with Lillibridge as a bench player. He's got good speed, and plays solid D at 2B and can play SS as well as CF or LF. He's also walked at a decent rate this year.

 

His problem at bat is that he's trying to act as some power hitter. If someone could convince him to go with the pitches more often and develop more of a line drive swing, he could be a some-what decent hitter, and not god awful as he is now. Like that one ball he hit tonight, he hit it well and it would have been a homer for Q, Dye, or PK, but Lillibridge just doesn't have the power to be taking swings like those.

 

As for Owens... well, yeah, I think everyone knows how I feel about him.

[fathom]

Pierzynksi the best option whether we like it or not, sadly.

 

Why, so he can hit into a double play if our leadoff man gets on base?

[southsideirish71]

In 6 of the last 8 games, we've been shut out once and were almost shut out twice.

 

We were almost on pace to be shut out 32 times this season.

 

In those six games, the only victory the miracle this afternoon where all our baserunners (in the entire game) and hits were salvaged by Konerko's clutch GW double with two outs, our offense has put up 35 hits in 190 at-bats for a .184 average.

 

If you add the two routs (25 for 74), it only raises the average to .227 over that time span, but still pretty horrible.

 

Is anyone concerned? Is Thome just not going to be the same hitter we're used to? Is Chris Getz going to get the "fragile" label? Will Owens and Lillibridge ever contribute offensively as starting players? Will Betemit be used enough where he can even give you quality at-bats as a PH at some point this season?

 

Yes, there's the weather. Yes, there's Felix Hernandez. But we've also been shut down by the likes of Bergesen, Tallet, Eaton and Jakabauskas, a former infielder not too far removed from Florence and the Frontier League. Two of those guys had 7+ ERA's and Bergesen was making his major league debut.

 

Has the Greg Walker lift-and-pull school ruined some of our hitters?

 

If you've watched most of the games, the only hitters who are consistently taking pitches where they are pitched and NOT rolling their wrists are Konerko and Getz. Fields, who you'd like to see use his power and turn on some balls (like he did in ST), is now primarily an opposite field hitter, but he needs to hit for power to make up for his defensive lapses.

 

Fields, Anderson and Lillibridge still have huge swings, as does Ramirez. Quentin is trying to jack every single pitch out of the park, ala Thome. AJ looks horrific these days.

 

I just wonder (and I know Ozzie won't make an in-season change) if it wouldn't be the best thing for the White Sox and our future young prospects (Beckham, Allen, Flowers, Viciedo, Shelby, Danks, etc.) if we brought in a new hitting coach for 2010.

 

Beckham and Allen are definitely not pull hitters, and Tyler Flowers has power to all fields, as does Viciedo.

 

I just hope that we see a different "era" of White Sox hitting start to emerge (no, not the Miller/Lillibridge/Owens one) in the next couple of years, one that's not completely reliant on waiting for warm weather and kind winds from May through September.

 

Yes, they won the 2-1 game earlier today, but that was an anomaly, because the defense really tried to give that game back to the M's.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks for showing me how crazy this sounds. Some times seeing it from the outside is the only way you can get a better prosective. I am not a fan of our hitting coach but come on. Quentin is swinging for the fences? When did this happen. Getz is injury prone? There is only one member of the team right now swinging from his heels. He was starting at 2nd tonight and looks like he is 12. Relax. We are 10-10 in a 500 division and its not May 1st yet.

 

 

[BearSox]

Alexei is 2 for his last 10 and had one of the worst ABs of his career today, he has no business hitting second. With that said, Fields has no business hitting 2nd either and needs to be moved out of there tomorrow.

Alexei hit the ball hard today, and he'll always be the type of player who will look good for one at bat and look foolish the next. Right now, I'd say he's our best option in the 2 hole. He's been putting the ball in play and adds more speed to the top of the lineup.

[Kalapse]

Personally, I got no problem with Lillibridge as a bench player. He's got good speed, and plays solid D at 2B and can play SS as well as CF or LF. He's also walked at a decent rate this year.

 

His problem at bat is that he's trying to act as some power hitter. If someone could convince him to go with the pitches more often and develop more of a line drive swing, he could be a some-what decent hitter, and not god awful as he is now. Like that one ball he hit tonight, he hit it well and it would have been a homer for Q, Dye, or PK, but Lillibridge just doesn't have the power to be taking swings like those.

 

As for Owens... well, yeah, I think everyone knows how I feel about him.

He was drawing walks because he wasn't trying to drive the ball, you can tell when he's looking for a walk and when he's trying to hit the ball out, rarely does he put together a good AB and end up with a walk. He's also employed the "don't swing until you get a strike approach" which has led to 3 or 4 4-0 walks which just isn't going to happen in the future.

[BearSox]

I like it, but don't mind Thome 4th because it should theoretically put someone on base 40 pct of the time for Dye/Konerko. Fields batting 2nd is just stupid, and I feel like he's changed his approach because of it. He's worthless if he's just a slap hitter.

Yeah, you're right about Thome. He was starting to draw a lot more walks prior to his injury.

[Dick Allen]

Alexei hit the ball hard today, and he'll always be the type of player who will look good for one at bat and look foolish the next. Right now, I'd say he's our best option in the 2 hole. He's been putting the ball in play and adds more speed to the top of the lineup.

Anorexei is looking a little better at the plate for sure.

[fathom]

He was drawing walks because he wasn't trying to drive the ball, you can tell when he's looking for a walk and when he's trying to hit the ball out, rarely does he put together a good AB and end up with a walk. He's also employed the "don't swing until you get a strike approach" which has led to 3 or 4 4-0 walks which just isn't going to happen in the future.

 

I was going to say, he drew some walks in situations against pitchers that had no command (Kazmir, Liriano). Y. Bettancourt would have walked in those situations. The problem with Lillibridge being on this roster is that Ozzie's going to find any excuse to get his "grinder" abilities in the lineup. This team needs less grinder, more talent.

[Kalapse]

Anorexei is looking a little better at the plate for sure.

He's looking better but I wouldn't call that "heating up" I'd call it "not atrocious, begging to be benched".

[Dick Allen]

I like it, but don't mind Thome 4th because it should theoretically put someone on base 40 pct of the time for Dye/Konerko. Fields batting 2nd is just stupid, and I feel like he's changed his approach because of it. He's worthless if he's just a slap hitter.

When Thome is drawing walks he starts hitting homers in bunches. There are obviously times when I can strike him out, but we all have to hope he sees the ball well for long stretches this season.

[BearSox]

He was drawing walks because he wasn't trying to drive the ball, you can tell when he's looking for a walk and when he's trying to hit the ball out, rarely does he put together a good AB and end up with a walk. He's also employed the "don't swing until you get a strike approach" which has led to 3 or 4 4-0 walks which just isn't going to happen in the future.

I haven't seen all of his AB's so I don't know, I just glanced at the stats. But tonight he looked god awful. Like I said though, we get someone to teach him to stay on top of the ball and have quick short line drive swings, he'll be a completely different player, IMO. Nothing that great, but not nearly as bad as he is now.

[southsideirish71]

I was going to say, he drew some walks in situations against pitchers that had no command (Kazmir, Liriano). Y. Bettancourt would have walked in those situations. The problem with Lillibridge being on this roster is that Ozzie's going to find any excuse to get his "grinder" abilities in the lineup. This team needs less grinder, more talent.

 

If lillibridge had a level swing, or even hit down on the ball he would see a ton more success. But for some reason, he thinks he has some pop. Fast guys who hit lots of fly balls guys who are out of baseball. His speed is great. Fastest guy on the team bar none. But its pointless to have all that speed when you loft the ball in the air.

[Dick Allen]

I haven't seen all of his AB's so I don't know, I just glanced at the stats. But tonight he looked god awful. Like I said though, we get someone to teach him to stay on top of the ball and have quick short line drive swings, he'll be a completely different player, IMO. Nothing that great, but not nearly as bad as he is now.

There is no reason for Brent Lillibridge to hit the first or second pitch of an AB for an easy flyout. He has to realize his limitations. If he thinks he's going to consistantly crank balls into the seats, he needs to find a new profession.

[fathom]

I haven't seen all of his AB's so I don't know, I just glanced at the stats. But tonight he looked god awful. Like I said though, we get someone to teach him to stay on top of the ball and have quick short line drive swings, he'll be a completely different player, IMO. Nothing that great, but not nearly as bad as he is now.

 

As someone who has seen almost all of his at bats, I'll sum it up this way: HE f***ING SUCKS! He looks like a bad hitting pitcher at the plate. For someone who has speed, he is absolutely pathetic at hitting the ball on the ground. He must have got lucky to hit .220 in the minors last year.

[Kalapse]

Just to illustrate my point about Lillibridge I looked it up.

 

Some times he just goes up to the plate hoping he gets walked, puts the bat on his shoulder and doesn't make himself at all dangerous, it's like he clicks it off. This isn't going to work when you're a terrible hitter, pitchers who are capable of throwing strikes are going to get the ball over and you're going to make an easy out.

 

8 walks this year:

 

4-0 Liriano

4-0 Humber

4-3 Perry (absolutely no control but Lillibridge did foul one pitch off)

4-0 Kazmir

4-2 Balfour (didn't swing)

4-1 Nelson (didn't swing)

4-1 Garza (didn't swing)

4-0 Hernandez

[Dick Allen]

As someone who has seen almost all of his at bats, I'll sum it up this way: HE f***ING SUCKS! He looks like a bad hitting pitcher at the plate. For someone who has speed, he is absolutely pathetic at hitting the ball on the ground. He must have got lucky to hit .220 in the minors last year.

I couldn't agree more. Its amazing how many people stil put Lillibridge ahead of Anderson and Wise. Lillibridge is no better and probably worse offensively than Jerry Owens, but for some reason(probably because KW said so) they think he's a viable offensive major league player. He's nothing more than a late inning defensive replacement and a pinch runner.