KW should be embarassed

[Kyyle23]

Thank you.

 

I love this over the top stuff, its hilarious. OMG WTF WE HAVE NO CHANCE!!!!! Please, we're a couple games out, in a weak division, despite having a number of key players missing time, all of whom are recently back or will come back soon. The 2008 team was under .500 later in the season than this.

 

What? Im already lookin ahead to 2012(maybe). The next 3 - 5 seasons should be ignored, and a chicken little thread should be created after every loss

Edited May 5, 2009 by kyyle23

[ThunderBolt]

What? Im already lookin ahead to 2012(maybe). The next 3 - 5 seasons should be ignored, and a chicken little thread should be created after every loss

Who the hell do you think you guys are? The logic police? EVERYBODY PANIC!!!!!!

[Kyyle23]

Who the hell do you think you guys are? The logic police? EVERYBODY PANIC!!!!!!

 

I just threw my chair through the office window for effect

[ThunderBolt]

I just threw my chair through the office window for effect

So? I just jumped from the very same window!

[Dick Allen]

This is beginning to feel like the late 80's and late 90's.

 

We're in a transition year.

 

It would have been much better if they kept season tickets at the same prices, admitted they were going to cut payroll (using the downturn or Tucson as excuses, lack of revenues from ST ticket sales, etc.) and been MORE honest with the fans about the realistic goal being to compete in 2010-12.

 

Now there's the danger that we have a season somewhat like 2007, except not quite that bad, because nobody will run away with the division and we'll sort of be in the race for most of the season...but we'll lose a lot of the walk-up crowd that only comes out when we have good teams. Those casual Sox fans that don't show up until mid-to-late May won't come out and spend their hard-earned dollars on this.

 

Having lived in KC for 10 years, it's nice to see the fans finally coming out to support their team on a Monday night and really getting into it. Of course, it helps to have the best pitcher in baseball, but I can't remember going into a Royals game in my lifetime (well, since the mid 80's) where you felt there was about a 5-10% to win the game, especially without Dye. Almost 22,000 sounds like a disappointment, but not when you look at their average Monday night attendance in April/May over the last decade.

 

Royals fans are a lot like White Sox fans. They simply refuse to turn out for bad or average baseball, but they'll start filling that park in May and June if the Royals continue to be in or near first place. With Hochevar tearing up AAA now, they have a legit chance to compete when they add him to their rotation again.

 

As far as checking the ego at the door with KW goes, I think it all depends on Flowers with that trade (and, of course, we never know how Gilmore and Rodriguez will turn out 3-5 years from now). If he can catch in the big leagues with that type of power and plate discipline (above the level of Victor Martinez at least), then the trade will be a huge success, but certainly not in 2009. It's hard to name more than a couple of catchers in baseball who give you that type of offense.

I don't mind any of KW's trades this offseason. Not the Swisher trade. Not the Vazquez trade. I agree the prizes for those trades were salary relief with Swisher (and get back to me in a couple months to re-examine his numbers) and Tyler Flowers for Vazquez. What I do mind is playing a guy obviously in over his head hoping he shows something so you can say you saw something no one else did. KW has hit the jackpot a couple of times. He needs to realize it is the exception and not the rule. Then Ozzie talks to the kid and says he could make $15 million in his career or if he continues to play like he's playing, wind up in Korea? If he is playing so bad, why was he continuing to leadoff? How many times does Brent Lillibridge have to swing and miss a hit and run attempt before you pull the plug on that particular play? Isn't there the slightest chance that everyone else was right about Lillibridge and KW was wrong?

 

This team still has a shot though. Thats the good news. No one has beaten Greinke this year so we shouldn't be shocked or upset at last night's defeat. But upgrading the roster, even if it means taking on payroll, should be a priority.

[Dick Allen]

Would we be seeing any of these players if Getz, Anderson, Thome, Fields, and Dye didn't miss any time? Those 5 with Quentin, Konerko, AJ, and Ramirez make up a pretty decent lineup.

Getz missed how much time? The manager doesn't want him to play against LHP because he's 4 for 8. Get Lillibridge in there against them. He's 1 for 12. Fields has missed 1 game because of injury. Dye two games. Thome and Anderson are a couple of the most useless players to wear White Sox uniforms according to the consensus of this site.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Dick Allen

[BigSqwert]

So? I just jumped from the very same window!

Dammit. You just fell on me.

[lostfan]

Getz missed how much time? Fields has missed 1 game because of injury. Dye two games. Thome and Anderson are a couple of the most useless players to wear White Sox uniforms according to the consensus of this site.

Anderson and Thome are pretty polarizing figures.

[Kyyle23]

Dammit. You just fell on me.

 

Well at least you didnt get hit by the chair too

[BigSqwert]

Well at least you didnt get hit by the chair too

I jumped to my left to avoid the chair and all of a sudden he fell on top of me. Damn you Kenny Williams!

[Kyyle23]

I jumped to my left to avoid the chair and all of a sudden he fell on top of me. Damn you Kenny Williams!

 

KW is looking down at you from the open window with that smug "I told you so" look.

[BigSqwert]

KW is looking down at you from the open window with that smug "I told you so" look.

And Lillibridge is right next to him staring like a deer in headlights with the bat on his shoulder.

[Kyyle23]

And Lillibridge is right next to him staring like a deer in headlights with the bat on his shoulder.

 

Lillibridge is still thinking about the proper way to miss the ball completely on a hit and run

[NorthSideSox72]

And Lillibridge is right next to him staring like a deer in headlights with the bat on his shoulder.

This sounds like a live-action version of a Skanberg cartoon.

 

[chiguy79]

 

I think the outrage would be much less if we weren't watching Lillibridge/Pods, if those two got a ticket out of town with Jerry Owens people would be a bit more calm but when you have those two in a lineup and turn on the game you figure you have little shot of winning, I put equal blame on Ozzie for sure.

 

Also I don't buy that the sox will spend this upcoming offseason, they are building their cash reserves this year so Reinsdorf can distribute the profits if the next few years are lean, I also expect a sub .500 finish will cut the season ticket base by 33% (if not more) which will then be a self-fulfilling prophecy and KW/JR can say they had foresight.

[Soxbadger]

Why do people blame Walker all the time?

 

Its not like he is being given prized hitting spects who have amazing ba, obp and ops in the minors and then turning them into crap.

 

Most of the players Walker has to work with, are what they are.

 

But no one even mentions the fact that when Dye came to the Sox he was brutal at first(can anyone remember the "Dye Raise from the Dead"). He has since become more productive with the Sox than any other team he has played with.

 

I think the Sox hitting suffers from talent, not from coaching.

 

If he had players like Carlos Lee, Ordonez, Thomas, Ventura, coming through the minors our offense would be fine. Its not like CQ has done horrible with the Sox...

 

 

[CanOfCorn]

Why do people blame Walker all the time?

 

Its not like he is being given prized hitting spects who have amazing ba, obp and ops in the minors and then turning them into crap.

 

Most of the players Walker has to work with, are what they are.

 

But no one even mentions the fact that when Dye came to the Sox he was brutal at first(can anyone remember the "Dye Raise from the Dead"). He has since become more productive with the Sox than any other team he has played with.

 

I think the Sox hitting suffers from talent, not from coaching.

 

If he had players like Carlos Lee, Ordonez, Thomas, Ventura, coming through the minors our offense would be fine. Its not like CQ has done horrible with the Sox...

 

Stop making sense...sense has no place on Soxtalk.

 

/green

 

[RockRaines]

This thread is more embarrassing that anything Kenny has done.

[caulfield12]

Why do people blame Walker all the time?

 

Its not like he is being given prized hitting spects who have amazing ba, obp and ops in the minors and then turning them into crap.

 

Most of the players Walker has to work with, are what they are.

 

But no one even mentions the fact that when Dye came to the Sox he was brutal at first(can anyone remember the "Dye Raise from the Dead"). He has since become more productive with the Sox than any other team he has played with.

 

I think the Sox hitting suffers from talent, not from coaching.

 

If he had players like Carlos Lee, Ordonez, Thomas, Ventura, coming through the minors our offense would be fine. Its not like CQ has done horrible with the Sox...

 

Well, then we're back to the argument that Ozzie is a miracle worker/master motivator to get anything out of this threadbare talent, and Walker and Cooper should have lifetime contracts.

 

In the middle lies the truth, as usual.

 

It's not as if our payroll hasn't been in the Top 4-8 in the major leagues over the past three seasons. We're writing checks to someone besides Contreras and MacDougal, last time I checked.

 

For Quentin (who seems to have regressed into strictly a lift and pull hitter with 110% swing velocity on almost every pitch, much like Thome), there are/were puzzles like Rowand, Crede, Borchard, Brian Anderson, Juan Uribe, Josh Fields, Ryan Sweeney, Swisher, Cabrera, etc., that failed to fully reach their potential here. (Yes, an argument can be made about each player...that they weren't that good in the first place, bad development/coaching in the minors, Dave Wilder, Ron Schueler, drafting, Shaffer, getting older, bad fit in the clubhouse, etc.)

 

You (Greg Walker) can hang your hat on Quentin, Ramirez (although what Walker's done with him this season doesn't seem to be working so far) and Dye.

 

Konerko has been wildly inconsistent. Thome has been as expected, simply because he's had pretty good health compared to 2005.

 

AJ has seemingly regressed a bit in his hitting approach and has often wandered into the "lift and pull" school of influence as well.

 

I'll just put it this way...there are a lot more question marks about Walker's tenure than Cooper, whose main failures could be counted on 2-3 fingers, and almost never with our most valuable "commodity," a starting pitcher.

 

My biggest concern is simply that the rest of the players are too influenced by playing in USCF and the Big 4 in our line-up...everyone just makes the assumption it's better to take wild swings that miss down and away sliders by 3 feet than by trying to put that ball into play to the right side.

 

2005 might be something of an anomaly that we had a more balanced club and our pitching was so incredible...I'd almost prefer to see the White Sox move the fences back in 2010 or 2011 and force the natural doubles and single hitters to stop thinking about hitting HR's.

 

The stadium would still be small enough for hitters like Quentin, Flowers and Viciedo, but would also enhance the abilities of Getz, Jordan Danks, Allen, Beckham and Shelby by giving up more doubles and triples.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2009 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

OK, PLEASE find me one time where Greg Walker has emphasized "lift and pull" anywhere to a player. This keeps getting repeated ad naseum, but I swear everytime I hear him speak about hitting, he is always talking about up the middle, and the other way. I'd love to see a video clip or article where he ACTUALLY talks about turning hitters into uppercut, dead pull hitters.

[caulfield12]

This thread is more embarrassing that anything Kenny has done.

 

 

Nobody can argue that we have no quality depth among position players...we don't even have ONE that's pretty good offensively AND defensively (unless you want to put in an argument for Jayson Nix based on a couple of games).

 

Charlotte is the biggest joke in the minor leagues.

 

It's not about whether we will win this season, it's simply that there's no excuse to be in this position in the first place with our budget/payroll.

 

Our bench was always a strength, and now it's perhaps our greatest weakness, after Contreras and the ongoing CF carousel.

Edited May 5, 2009 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

OK, PLEASE find me one time where Greg Walker has emphasized "lift and pull" anywhere to a player. This keeps getting repeated ad naseum, but I swear everytime I hear him speak about hitting, he is always talking about up the middle, and the other way. I'd love to see a video clip or article where he ACTUALLY talks about turning hitters into uppercut, dead pull hitters.

 

 

So it's the hitters simply tuning him out and not listening that usually results in the "secondary/role" players never following this philosophy?

 

The Big 4 will get their share of K's, HR's and RBI's. You live with it...and the home park you play in. But that doesn't explain the other 9-10 players on a roster.

 

 

[Pants Rowland]

Why do people blame Walker all the time?

 

Its not like he is being given prized hitting spects who have amazing ba, obp and ops in the minors and then turning them into crap.

 

Most of the players Walker has to work with, are what they are.

 

But no one even mentions the fact that when Dye came to the Sox he was brutal at first(can anyone remember the "Dye Raise from the Dead"). He has since become more productive with the Sox than any other team he has played with.

 

I think the Sox hitting suffers from talent, not from coaching.

 

If he had players like Carlos Lee, Ordonez, Thomas, Ventura, coming through the minors our offense would be fine. Its not like CQ has done horrible with the Sox...

 

Good point. I have not read the entire thread, but people also fail to note that just a couple weeks ago, the Sox were showing positive signs of becoming a more balanced team with decent young players such as Quentin, Fields, Getz, Ramirez, and Anderson. It seems somehow (maybe with GW's help), BA was starting to lay off the low and away slider and guys were swinging for solid contact rather than the fences.

 

As the season plays out, the league will make adjustments and the numbers will balance out, but I liked the direction things were going. However, a string of injuries have forced the Sox to put subpar players in the lineup. Maybe criticize KW for lack of depth or Ozzie mismanaging Betemit (or his Lefty Righty obsession), but most teams can not maintain any level of success with this many injuries. I hate excuses, but I think this is a valid one. Pods was plan C/D and the Sox were forced to resort to it via injuries.

 

That is baseball so get used to it or you will never enjoy this game.

[southsider2k5]

So it's the hitters simply tuning him out and not listening that usually results in the "secondary/role" players never following this philosophy?

 

The Big 4 will get their share of K's, HR's and RBI's. You live with it...and the home park you play in. But that doesn't explain the other 9-10 players on a roster.

 

So I take it you haven't seen it actually said by Walker anywhere?

[Kyyle23]

Well, then we're back to the argument that Ozzie is a miracle worker/master motivator to get anything out of this threadbare talent, and Walker and Cooper should have lifetime contracts.

 

Where do you pull this s*** from? Who ever made this argument?