KW should be embarassed

[lostfan]

I was thinking about it and pretty much most of the hitters I idealize in the MLB as hitters have very unique and almost uncopyable quirks. Pujols for example. I wouldnt tell a hitter to hold the bat like him, and swing just like him, but watch how he attacks pitchers, watch his god-like balance and how flat his bat is in thezone.

I wouldn't encourage anyone to copy Ichiro's stance/swing... ever

[Dick Allen]

Are you really arguing that Ryan Sweeney is a better hitter then Josh Fields? You sure you wanna go that direction?

I personally feel Sweeney will be a better hitter in the major leagues than Fields, but that wasn't the point in my post. They are obviously not similar in any way. The point I was making is most of the people who complain about the White Sox "approach" don't seem to mind that Fields will strikeout 200 times a year if he plays everyday, because he will hit homers, and a guy like Sweeney, who does have potential and is a pretty good defensive player was dismissed as garbage because he wasn't a guy who swings for the fences.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

God I hate starting off here and seeing threads like this.

[southsider2k5]

Are you really arguing that Ryan Sweeney is a better hitter then Josh Fields? You sure you wanna go that direction?

 

That would be a tough choice to make if it wasn't for Fields power. He really seems to be showing he isn't much of a hitter so far in his career.

[caulfield12]

The Greg Walker stuff is crap. There is not and there has never been a "lift and pull" philosophy. He works with what he has. The White Sox have been constructed with guys who hit home runs for years. These types are very streaky. When they aren't going well, no runs will be scored. The balance management has tried to create has never really worked out. Hopefully guys like Getz and Beckham will correct that. Why is it when the Sox don't score, its all Greg Walker's fault? Why isn't it Don Cooper's fault when Contreras and Floyd fail to hold runners on base or when a pitcher gets lit up? When a Sox player swings for the fences and pops up, Walker must go. When MacDougal throws another one to the screen, no one is calling for Cooper's head. Why isn't it Joey Cora's fault when another rundown goes awry? The Walker stuff needs to stop. Its time to blame the guys walking up to the plate with a bat. These are major league players. They are supposed to have some sort of clue. So many around here hate the "all or nothing" approach a lot of White Sox hitters supposedly have, yet love Josh Fields and also said Ryan Sweeney was garbage because he didn't hit enough home runs.

 

Well, as Harrelson said on one of the broadcasts, it's fine if you are so good and so confident that those runs don't score once they have stolen 2nd and 3rd, but Floyd and Contreras (since 2006, and early 2008) haven't been very effective with RISP. I think Floyd led the majors in unearned runs last year, so he definitely wasn't pitching over or around mistakes. Jenks is more comfortable pitching (and allowing stolen bases right and left) into and out of trouble.

 

We are definitely the worst team in the majors at rundowns...the one last night was almost comical, with Getz chasing after Olivo and almost not getting there in time. That goes back to Ozzie, the bench coaches, the entire minor league system.

 

Of course, the other part of the problem is that players like Konerko, Nix, Betemit, Ramirez, etc., didn't come up through our system...but there SHOULD be no excuses for that.

 

Cooper gets more credit because of where the following players came from and how they progressed: Marte, Thornton, Loaiza, Contreras, Garland, Jenks, John Danks and Gavin Floyd, among others. He also gets a lot of the credit for 2005...because of the team's amazing pitching that year, especially Politte/Cotts/Hermanson.

 

I guess the answer to your question is also to be found in the..."Coop will fix him" statements proliferating on the message boards. You don't ever see "Walk will fix him," it's more like, "hopefully, Walk won't mess him up."

 

Traditionally, we have fired hitting coaches in this organization as "scapegoats" and the replacement didn't do any better than Gary Ward or Ron Jackson...it's just that belief it's easier to change the hitting coach than the manager or GM, just like coordinators in football.

 

 

 

[southsideirish71]

I don't understand why everyone is freaking out. Did they not pay attention to the warts on this team last year. Same players, year later. This is a KW transition year. The division is crappy so we can complete. Meanwhile lets start to sprinkle some youth in the picture and start to move past this aging core. Notice the crew at AA right now. Why is it all of them are together. Why is it that so much effort and emphasis is on that crew. Because that is part of your new core. Getting used to playing with each other. This year may work out, then again it may not. But that nice looking group at AA gives me hope as a sox fan for long term success. And as a sox fan thats what I want. I am willing to deal with a mediocre year here, and there to get a nice young crew together. We have some nice pics here in this upcoming draft to load up even more. There should be a sign up, Don't mind our dust we are remolding. Come back in a year or so and see the new an improved team. I have beaten the Walk thing to death on this site, and if you have noticed I have kept out of it this year. Because its pointless. I don't particularly think he is good at his job, but its evident that he is here forever. So the speculation is pointless. They are not replacing him. So why even bother with it. Blow the torches out. Its not happening. And to be honest whats the point of replacing Walk with Gary Ward. I hope they do well this year. I hope the team figures out how to score runs again. I hope they stay healthy. If they don't, then there is no point in getting in bunches over it.

 

 

[bmags]

It's just that rebuilding years suck.

[NorthSideSox72]

It's just that rebuilding years suck.

Good thing we haven't seen one of those in quite a while.

 

This is the KW mode. There are no true rebuilding years - its a continuous thing (which he is not always successful at). But you just won't see a KW-run Sox team that is ever in a "rebuilding" mode like you see some other teams do.

 

[RockRaines]

Good thing we haven't seen one of those in quite a while.

 

This is the KW mode. There are no true rebuilding years - its a continuous thing (which he is not always successful at). But you just won't see a KW-run Sox team that is ever in a "rebuilding" mode like you see some other teams do.

Right. For example, Charlotte may be garbage, but Birmingham is easily one of the best sox minor league teams I have seen in many years. Reloading.

[scenario]

Good thing we haven't seen one of those in quite a while.

 

This is the KW mode. There are no true rebuilding years - its a continuous thing (which he is not always successful at). But you just won't see a KW-run Sox team that is ever in a "rebuilding" mode like you see some other teams do.

 

 

^^^^

 

KW's M.O....

 

Rebuild somewhere around 1/3 of the team every year, so you never have to rebuild all of it at the same time.

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Right. For example, Charlotte may be garbage, but Birmingham is easily one of the best sox minor league teams I have seen in many years. Reloading.

And the major league team is competitive. As usual. This decade (2000-2009), the Sox have really only been non-competitive in the division once - 2007. Every other year they field a team capable of vying for the division title, and stay in it until late season, usually.

 

[ThunderBolt]

It's just that rebuilding years suck.

If you don't like this year, you're going to hate the next two. This is not a rebuilding year, this is a slump. WEEK.

[Cali]

The sun will rise and burn brighter in the summer, and the bats will heat up like they ALWAYS f***ing do and the balls will be jumping out of the park. The Sox will mash enough to stay competitive in a weak ass division. Then who knows....?

[WCSox]

KGJ still has one of the most beautiful swings. Unfortunately, the bat head doesn't get through the zone as quick as it once did. Might be all those leg injuries.

 

Players tend to lose significant bat speed as they approach 40. Harold Baines had the bat speed of a Little Leaguer by the time he retired.

 

[witesoxfan]

I wouldn't encourage anyone to copy Ichiro's stance/swing... ever

 

Jeff Bagwell and Frank Thomas come to mind as well. Jeff Bagwell in particular actually.

[MEANS]

I don't understand why everyone is freaking out. Did they not pay attention to the warts on this team last year. Same players, year later. This is a KW transition year. The division is crappy so we can complete. Meanwhile lets start to sprinkle some youth in the picture and start to move past this aging core. Notice the crew at AA right now. Why is it all of them are together. Why is it that so much effort and emphasis is on that crew. Because that is part of your new core. Getting used to playing with each other. This year may work out, then again it may not. But that nice looking group at AA gives me hope as a sox fan for long term success. And as a sox fan thats what I want. I am willing to deal with a mediocre year here, and there to get a nice young crew together. We have some nice pics here in this upcoming draft to load up even more. There should be a sign up, Don't mind our dust we are remolding. Come back in a year or so and see the new an improved team. I have beaten the Walk thing to death on this site, and if you have noticed I have kept out of it this year. Because its pointless. I don't particularly think he is good at his job, but its evident that he is here forever. So the speculation is pointless. They are not replacing him. So why even bother with it. Blow the torches out. Its not happening. And to be honest whats the point of replacing Walk with Gary Ward. I hope they do well this year. I hope the team figures out how to score runs again. I hope they stay healthy. If they don't, then there is no point in getting in bunches over it.

 

 

great post, thank you!

[RockRaines]

Jeff Bagwell and Frank Thomas come to mind as well. Jeff Bagwell in particular actually.

There isnt a strong enough player in the league to be able to copy Frank's one armed swing.

[Balta1701]

There isnt a strong enough player in the league to be able to copy Frank's one armed swing.

I dunno...depends on what ARod's taking these days.

[NorthSideSox72]

Players tend to lose significant bat speed as they approach 40. Harold Baines had the bat speed of a Little Leaguer by the time he retired.

As a 40 year old he put up a .978 OPS for Baltimore, including 24 HR. I'd say he still had some bat speed then.

 

[fathom]

I don't understand why everyone is freaking out. Did they not pay attention to the warts on this team last year. Same players, year later. This is a KW transition year. The division is crappy so we can complete. Meanwhile lets start to sprinkle some youth in the picture and start to move past this aging core. Notice the crew at AA right now. Why is it all of them are together. Why is it that so much effort and emphasis is on that crew. Because that is part of your new core. Getting used to playing with each other. This year may work out, then again it may not. But that nice looking group at AA gives me hope as a sox fan for long term success. And as a sox fan thats what I want. I am willing to deal with a mediocre year here, and there to get a nice young crew together. We have some nice pics here in this upcoming draft to load up even more. There should be a sign up, Don't mind our dust we are remolding. Come back in a year or so and see the new an improved team. I have beaten the Walk thing to death on this site, and if you have noticed I have kept out of it this year. Because its pointless. I don't particularly think he is good at his job, but its evident that he is here forever. So the speculation is pointless. They are not replacing him. So why even bother with it. Blow the torches out. Its not happening. And to be honest whats the point of replacing Walk with Gary Ward. I hope they do well this year. I hope the team figures out how to score runs again. I hope they stay healthy. If they don't, then there is no point in getting in bunches over it.

 

That's a great post SSI.

[earthshiner]

There isnt a strong enough player in the league to be able to copy Frank's one armed swing.

and one legged.

[caulfield12]

Cowley said something I hadn't heard before about Swisher.

 

That he basically refused to work with Greg Walker all last season...and always deferred to his dad as his swing guru. Another reason it wouldn't have worked for him to come back here. We'll see what happens to him when he cools off in NYC.

 

Said that Crede had also not worked with Walker his first two years of struggling and not sticking with the team (coming off the Southern League MVP) and finally admitted he needed Greg's help.

 

Also, that Gary Ward was pretty much detested by Aaron Rowand ("he set his swing back at least one year") and that he continued to advise Aaron even in 2006 when he was struggling early in his career with the Phillies.

[ThunderBolt]

Cowley said something I hadn't heard before about Swisher.

 

That he basically refused to work with Greg Walker all last season...and always deferred to his dad as his swing guru. Another reason it wouldn't have worked for him to come back here. We'll see what happens to him when he cools off in NYC.

Maybe he had the right idea...

[WCSox]

As a 40 year old he put up a .978 OPS for Baltimore, including 24 HR. I'd say he still had some bat speed then.

 

Yeah, and what happened after he was traded back to the Sox? I'm not saying that every player's swing dies at age 40. MOST begin to decline as they approach 40, and even ridiculously-talented hitters like Harold eventually lose bat speed around that age.

Edited May 6, 2009 by WCSox

[greg775]

Also, that Gary Ward was pretty much detested by Aaron Rowand ("he set his swing back at least one year") and that he continued to advise Aaron even in 2006 when he was struggling early in his career with the Phillies.

 

If Rowand hated him so much, why did he take his calls in 2006 when he was with a different team? Did he have a Zen-like trance over Aaron?