Ozzie with his usual empty threats after loss like this

[fathom]

It looks like Ozzie may have been talking about Anorexei last night. Nix at SS tonight.

 

Getz 2B

Fields 3B

Quentin LF

Thome DH

Dye RF

Konerko 1B

Pierzynski C

Nix SS

Podsednik CF

 

Awesome, no Betemit against one of the toughest pitchers in baseball against righties. I'm surprised Ozzie didn't put Pods in the leadoff spot for his first home game.

[Dick Allen]

Yeah well Guillen should cover his while hes at it.

Depending on the barometric pressure we will hear how Ozzie will be managing far longer than an new rival will be playing or how close he came to walking away after some loss. He covers it himself very nicely.

[NorthSideSox72]

Great idea to put Nix at SS. It's always well-informed to put career 2B who have played 40 games their entire career at the position (and of course, when they were 18, eight years ago) at the most difficult position on the diamond.

 

Wait, he played a few games then on his rehab assignment. That makes it a sure bit to work out, since he didn't make an error in RF, and he ONLY made two questionable plays at 3B the other night (one was saved by a miraculous Konerko snag of a throw that wasn't even close to the bag, the the other a muffed ball that led to the missing on an easy DP).

You have to give Alexei a day off occasionally, and with his performance of late, this seems to be a good time for it. What would you suggest as an alternative? Lillibridge is the only other real option, and he is hitting so badly that his defense can't really make up the difference. I actually like this move.

 

[Harry Chappas]

Awesome, no Betemit against one of the toughest pitchers in baseball against righties. I'm surprised Ozzie didn't put Pods in the leadoff spot for his first home game.

 

Is he still on the team?

[BigSqwert]

Is he still on the team?

He was last seen assisting Roger Bossard in pregame. He's the new fertilizer guy.

[caulfield12]

It's almost like the MORE Fathom brings up the Betemit situation, the LESS likely Ozzie is to play him.

 

It "feels" like they have to determine this season if Fields can be an "everyday/non-platoon" player, and that next year the position would be Betemit's to play as the stopgap for one season, but ONLY 1) if Fields fails this year, 2) Viciedo is moved off the position and/or doesn't hit over .225 this season in BIRM or 3) Beckham is left in the middle infield.

 

So maybe a worst-case scenario of a Nix/Betemit platoon there next year...with three players that would be more likely to be permanent, long-term solutions at that position.

[caulfield12]

You have to give Alexei a day off occasionally, and with his performance of late, this seems to be a good time for it. What would you suggest as an alternative? Lillibridge is the only other real option, and he is hitting so badly that his defense can't really make up the difference. I actually like this move.

 

 

There's no permanent solution here for 2009. The only options are either moving Getz or Nix to SS (and I think moving Nix makes more sense than moving Getz from a purely "ability to play the position" standpoint) or bringing up Eider Torres as a stopgap.

 

Neither Beckham nor Lillibridge are viable for first-half 2009. You can also forget about Betemit, even though I would almost rather see that than Eider Torres, who would be essentially like Lillibridge/Andy Gonzalez.

Edited May 6, 2009 by caulfield12

[NorthSideSox72]

There's no permanent solution here for 2009. The only options are either moving Getz or Nix to SS (and I think moving Nix makes more sense than moving Getz from a purely "ability to play the position" standpoint) or bringing up Eider Torres as a stopgap.

 

Neither Beckham nor Lillibridge are viable for first-half 2009. You can also forget about Betemit, even though I would almost rather see that than Eider Torres, who would be essentially like Lillibridge/Andy Gonzalez.

I wasn't talking about permanent solutions - I am talking about giving Alexei a day off occasionally. For that purpose, Nix is a good option, in the absence of anything better.

 

The permanent solution IS Alexei. He started cold last year too, and I think he'll figure it out and adjust.

 

[fathom]

I wasn't talking about permanent solutions - I am talking about giving Alexei a day off occasionally. For that purpose, Nix is a good option, in the absence of anything better.

 

The permanent solution IS Alexei. He started cold last year too, and I think he'll figure it out and adjust.

 

Well, he's "benched" according to Ozzie. I almost wonder if Sox thought Betemit would be more competent defensively up the middle than he showed in ST.

[NorthSideSox72]

Well, he's "benched" according to Ozzie. I almost wonder if Sox thought Betemit would be more competent defensively up the middle than he showed in ST.

Ozzie didn't say "benched", though he did say it wasn't "rest". See my post in the game thread, that covers my feeling on this.

 

[fathom]

Ozzie didn't say "benched", though he did say it wasn't "rest". See my post in the game thread, that covers my feeling on this.

 

Good, on the radio before, they said benched. Alexei being benched for an extended period would be awful, as if this truly becomes a rebuilding year, you have to see what he can do at the SS position.

[santo=dorf]

WSI is positive? I know I havent even been on there in many many years, but I remember it being a black hole of nothing but bitter old people (sorry to all the bitter old people here)

 

I remember hearing one of the cotton heads, pre-2005, proclaim the Sox would win the series before the cubs, but after hell froze over. "Shiny Happy people..." Or whackjob "proven theories" about how if anything good happens to the Sox, something bad will ALWAYS happen.

 

I honestly wonder how some of the people of the site dealt with the sox winning the World Series. Sure they were excited but also had to be a bit empty inside that they couldn't b**** about how they'll never win one....

West, Voodoo, PHG and others (most of whom have been banned or left for soxtalk) from 2001-2003:

JR is cheap and needs to sell the team

KW is a moron who only has a job to boost diversity numbers

Ozzie Guillen is a back stabber who spat in the fans' faces during the 1994 strike and had bad things to say about Frank (a still ban worthy offense there) when he left.

 

After 2005 any criticism of KW and or Ozzie was worthy of an insult and/or ban with the usual response of "they have a ring, you don't," and JR is easily the best owner in Chicago history

Edited May 6, 2009 by santo=dorf

[Cali]

West, Voodoo, PHG and others (most of whom have been banned or left for soxtalk) from 2001-2003:

JR is cheap and needs to sell the team

KW is a moron who only has a job to boost diversity numbers

Ozzie Guillen is a back stabber who spat in the fans' faces during the 1994 strike and had bad things to say about Frank (a still ban worthy offense there) when he left.

 

After 2005 any criticism of KW and or Ozzie was worthy of an insult and/or ban with the usual response of "they have a ring, you don't," and JR is easily the best owner in Chicago history

 

Haha Wow, that is sad....

[caulfield12]

Which was the board that "outed" ncorgbl from chisox.com?

 

I remember arguing with that guy for about four years over there, b4 I knew about any other Sox message boards...sometimes I wonder what happened to him. There was another guy, colsat46, I think he died (he was a military veteran)? The thing I find funny is that the core debate, defending or attacking KW, I've totally changed my viewpoint about Williams in the years since.

 

Memories.

 

I tried posting at wsi for awhile, but one of my best friends had joined and then a group of people jumped all over him for something silly (having to do with music, of all things) and when he got banned there by groupthink/Big Brother/Animal Farm, so I found soxtalk.

 

It's amazing how much more peaceful this sight is...and it's not this "insider's club" like over there where if you don't know anyone who runs the board personally you're in danger of being banned or flamed. Then that whole stupid teal thing...I mean, 25-30% of the posts there were things that most casual fans would never even begin to understand.

 

Leading to the "it's not about Free Speech or First Amendment...it's OUR board" type discussions. Which is fine, they can have it.

Edited May 6, 2009 by caulfield12

[jamesdiego]

I tried posting at wsi for awhile...

 

Maybe try a prostitute, get some of that anger out of you. It's just too early to be upset, who the hell knows how this will turn out.

 

And you've been kinda hard on Kenny, any hidden agendas here? Were you just as unforgiving to our previous "lighter shade" GMs? Did you turn on Schueler this early? I have nothing to base this on, and I don't mean to apply racism or anything? But are you a flippin racist man?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

JK Caufield, I'm bored. But you deserve to get played with sometmes.

[greg775]

Here's the AP story. Oz trying to light a fire under Alexei. Hope he isn't out of the lineup more than 2 days. I personally don't think Nix is the answer.

 

CHICAGO (AP) — Alexei Ramirez got the night off Wednesday, and he can expect to rest on Thursday, too.

The Chicago White Sox’s game against the Detroit Tigers was postponed because of rain Wednesday night. The game was called after a delay of 1 hour, 13 minutes. A makeup date wasn’t announced.

White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen was planning to give his struggling shortstop the night off. Ramirez, a spark plug for the 2008 AL Central Division winners, is off to a slow start that has Guillen worried.

Ramirez is hitting .211 with one homer, after hitting .290 with 21 home runs last year and finished behind Tampa Bay’s Evan Longoria for AL Rookie of the Year. He will likely be out of Thursday’s lineup against the Tigers.

“I always tell my players, give yourself a chance. Get good at-bats. But when you see one at-bat after another, after another, after another, and no results, no adjustments — we talked to Alexei a few times,” Guillen said. “I don’t mind 0 for 4. I don’t mind struggles. I don’t mind being in a slump. But how are you in a slump? How do you do something about it? I need some offense, and that’s the reason we’re going to put (Jayson) Nix back there. Because I need the offense.”

Guillen is not going to wait for Ramirez to get going since his club has lost four straight.Nix is 3 for 7 after being activated from a rehab assignment in Triple-A Charlotte.

“There’s one thing about Nix. I never fall in love with any players until they show me they can play in the big leagues. But he’s got three games, two games, and every at-bat this kid fights. He might not get a hit, but he will fight. And we’ll see what happens. I’m not saying the Missile is going to be on the bench for the rest of the season, but I’ve got to send a notice,” said Guillen, who did not talk to Ramirez on Wednesday.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'm all for tough love. But Ozzie needs to realize we're not exactly the Red Sox. We don't have a neverending inventory of quality players, be it pitchers or hitters, waiting in the wings to replace guys who are underperforming.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

West, Voodoo, PHG and others (most of whom have been banned or left for soxtalk) from 2001-2003:

JR is cheap and needs to sell the team

KW is a moron who only has a job to boost diversity numbers

Ozzie Guillen is a back stabber who spat in the fans' faces during the 1994 strike and had bad things to say about Frank (a still ban worthy offense there) when he left.

 

After 2005 any criticism of KW and or Ozzie was worthy of an insult and/or ban with the usual response of "they have a ring, you don't," and JR is easily the best owner in Chicago history

I thought the mods to that site were just fine, in fact I actually liked them and had no problems. The banning would get a little crazy sometimes, but when you see some of the things posters would get banned for you understand why (sometimes). Anyway, they all for the most part seemed cool to me. What got me was one know-it-all poster who seemed to spam everything and the fact that there would always be like 9000 stupid trade threads (which isn't to say trade threads aren't entertaining, but when you think you can get a superstar for a package involving Lance Broadway it gets old). It seemed like there was an influx of posters from the idiot factories that are the MLB forum and the MLB Trade Rumors comment fields or something, and many of the better posters weren't posting anymore, and much of what was left was this weird like kind of fraternizing between posters who weren't funny but thought they were and never seemed to actually discuss baseball.

 

But anyway, as far as some of those opinions you list above, how many Sox fans didn't have similar opinions prior to 2003 when KW and JR really showed the fans they were going for it? That period between the white flag trade and the 2003 season where we made the deals for Bartolo, Everett, Alomar, etc. was really a dark age of fandom IMO, with the only light being the 2000 season which proved to be nothing more than fools gold really. Yes we had a few very good young players, but that pitching staff wasn't going to take us anywhere. Burls and Garland were relievers at the time.

 

I think JR and KW have definitely done enough to redeem themselves. It's easy to say JR is cheap and KW is stupid, but what have JR and KW done since 2002? They went for it all in 2003, then had a good team in '04 prior to the injuries to Frank and Maggs, but still added Freddy and Jose and tried to add Carlos Delgado. Then in '05 they rebuilt much of the team and won a World Series. In 2006 Jerry upped the payroll and they picked up Thome and Javy, then went out and added a very expensive bench to keep the players fresh, and tried many different things to fix the pen including taking on Riske and dealing for MacDougal. From 2007-2009 Kenny has worked to get younger, because he has to, and yes payroll is falling now but that's what happens when you work on building a new core. How many fans in 2007 wanted this whole team blown up? And yet JR didn't pull off another white flag. The Sox gave the biggest money to a pitcher in their history (Buehrle) and then extended Dye and AJ in the midst of their worst season since 1989. And all the fans (including me at the time) who were complaining about not offering a 5th year to Buehrle, well that has proven to be a very wise decision given today's economy in baseball.

 

Overall I think the Sox have done a great job since 2002. They went for it when they thought they had to (2003-2006) and happened to win a WS during that timeframe. 2003 should have been a division title, and in 2004 we would have had enough if Maggs and Frank didn't go down. 2006 should have been a division title as well. Every year from 2003-2006 I thought we had a very realistic chance of winning the division and perhaps going further. Then we start building a new core and we win a division in 2008 after losing 90 games the previous year which is a direct tribute to JR for NOT blowing it up in 2007 as we don't win jack s*** without Burls and JD. And still this year, we've got a chance at the division so far, and we've addressed the minor league system so that if things do go south in a hurry there's at least something to hope for in 2010.

 

Just imagine what Sox fans would do if we traded away Johan Santana, or let Torii Hunter walk without getting anything for him, or if we kept getting to the playoffs but didn't go anywhere because we couldn't sign anyone better than Ramon Ortiz. Image how Sox fans would feel if we had Sabathia and dealt him away, and if we had to deal with busts like Andy Marte and Adam Miller, while having to watch Kerry Wood get hurt and Joe freaking Borowski blow games. What would Sox fans think if they didn't have such a "cheap" owner and instead gave out contracts to the likes of Gary Sheffield, Dontrelle Willis, Nate Robertson, Brandon Inge and company? s***, how would we feel if we were actually Kansas City Royals fans? Or what about the Orioles? Or the A's constant rebuilding state? Or the f***ing Mariners of the past several years? Or Tampa Bay, who has tons of talent, just went to the Series, but is now losing again and will soon be on the verge of losing players to free agency? How about Texas? I wonder how Blue Jays fans feel about all the good-but-not-great teams and the s***load of bad contracts they have?

 

Personally, when I look around the American League, the only teams that have had it as good or better than Sox fans in recent years are the Angels, the Yankees, and the Red Sox. Anyone still b****ing about KW and JR is ignorant of the plight of many other disgusted baseball fans around the country. In the last 6 seasons, the Sox have 2 divisional titles, 1 WS title, and 3 of those other teams were contenders that fell apart due to circumstances generally outside of KW's and JR's hands. We're in a great position for the future considering the talent on the farm and all the money coming off the books over the next two years, and that's not something you can say for a lot of teams, especially those who have had success in recent years. Usually you can't have your cake and eat it too, but the Sox fortunately are in a good position for the future AND have had contending seasons to look forward to in the recent past and currently.

[caulfield12]

Good post KHP.

 

The only thing I'll disagree with you on is Brandon Inge, he's having an excellent season (so far). He's about as popular as Crede/Rowand/Anderson in Detroit right now...

 

I think Dayton Moore knows what he is doing over there in KC, building that pitching staff. Everyone in baseball thought the Meche deal was insane, and he turned out to be the key in helping to turn the "mentality" of that rotation around. Then he added Davies, Bannister, Hochevar, Daniel Cortes, etc., through draft and trade, when the Royals had a simply atrocious record drafting pitchers in the first round. The Juan Cruz move was really smart to solidify their set-up situation, and Jacobs was necessary to give some ooomph to that line-up, despite his low OBP.

 

Even some of the head-scratchers like Guillen and Bloomquist have turned out okay, and they're doing well without any solid contributions from Gordon, Hosmer or Moustakas yet.

 

Before this organization was mostly known for giving away Ibanez, Damon, Dye and Beltran.

 

I do have some hope because Minnesota under new GM Smith has struggled:

 

1) They're stuck moving into a new facility (in a horrible economy) without a team constructed for outdoor play

2) If Mauer is more of a DH/1B, then they're in the unenviable position of having to sign him long-term not knowing how healthy he will be...his stats won't be so great for any other position...but it would be devastating to let the homegrown kid walk after losing the likes of Hunter and Santana

3) The Garza-Bartlett for D. Young move was horrible...Young hasn't meshed with Gardenhire, and they've already tried to trade him

4) The Twins have become one of the worst defensive teams in the AL, whereas before they were THE best

5) The Twins' bullpen used to be a lockdown pen from the 7th inning on...now it's a complete mess, and they will forever regret passing on J. Cruz

6) They keep spending money on the likes of Lamb, Monroe, Livan Hernandez and Adam Everett (and this year, Crede) without getting anything in return, when they should have invested that money in keeping Santana

7) It's very possible that none of the players acquired for Santana will work out with the Twins

Edited May 7, 2009 by caulfield12

[shakes]

Haha Wow, that is sad....

 

And also really untrue. I have been a member of both boards and I don't get the hate. I have never seen venom spewed about this board over there? There are some really smart Sox people over there, and some really great Sox historians.

 

And if you follow the rules you will not get banned, regardless of your opinion. There are some people ,on both boards, that are really outspoken and at times obnoxious. But, thats been the case on every message board I've ever posted at.

[Kyyle23]

And also really untrue. I have been a member of both boards and I don't get the hate. I have never seen venom spewed about this board over there? There are some really smart Sox people over there, and some really great Sox historians.

 

And if you follow the rules you will not get banned, regardless of your opinion. There are some people ,on both boards, that are really outspoken and at times obnoxious. But, thats been the case on every message board I've ever posted at.

 

From what i am told, the rules are based around your opinion meshing with the prevailing opinion on the site. They wouldnt let me join because of my super suspicious yahoo email address, so I cant be for sure, but a lot of the people who have gravitated here have said "I disagreed with XXXXXX and next thing I knew, I was out"

[NorthSideSox72]

I post on both boards, and they are just different. I happen to prefer it here, but there are things to like over there as well. WSI is certainly more stringent on the rules, and some of the rules (IMO) are restrictive to the point of silliness. But its their board, and I can understand where some of it comes from. Honestly, I think the level of snark is higher here than there - but the discussions are more in depth here as well. It just depends on what you want to get out of the board.

 

[shakes]

From what i am told, the rules are based around your opinion meshing with the prevailing opinion on the site. They wouldnt let me join because of my super suspicious yahoo email address, so I cant be for sure, but a lot of the people who have gravitated here have said "I disagreed with XXXXXX and next thing I knew, I was out"

 

The rules have nothing to do with your opinion, and again I have never seen anybody banned for having a verying opinion. They do not allow personal attacks, which leads to about 99% of the bans, which are not permanent.

 

The yahoo email address thing has to do with some issue with spam.

[lostfan]

The rules have nothing to do with your opinion, and again I have never seen anybody banned for having a verying opinion. They do not allow personal attacks, which leads to about 99% of the bans, which are not permanent.

 

The yahoo email address thing has to do with some issue with spam.

They have a pretty liberal definition of "personal attack," I got something like 10 days off once for being sarcastic. I just got tired of their trigger-happy Goderators and quit.

 

Also one time I got suspended for a phantom language filter violation (I don't ever try to type around the filter, why would I do that?) which coincidentally came a few hours after I ripped Josh Fields really bad in a thread and got ganged up on. I don't know if it was a coincidence or what, but all of the times I got banned/suspended were questionable at best, and all of them are things I do here regularly.

[NorthSideSox72]

The rules have nothing to do with your opinion, and again I have never seen anybody banned for having a verying opinion. They do not allow personal attacks, which leads to about 99% of the bans, which are not permanent.

 

The yahoo email address thing has to do with some issue with spam.

They 100% disallow discussions of certain Sox topics, such as attendence, or media treatment of the Sox. That is a little over the top, IMO.

 

But like I said, I understand where some of it comes from. They have a wider audience than we do (though not much), and tend to be a first stop for fans out there, so they'll tend to get more losers that they have to deal with.