Lillibridge the leader to go back to Charlotte

[Chisoxfn]

Simple, he's supposed to help/assist/mentor in order to maximize the ability of each hitter.

Dude, enough already. Its not Walkers fault that Anderson and Fields have f***ing awful swings. There swings have gotten noticeably better under Walker and they still suck. If you want to give a reason for firing Walker say its because another person might be able to get the message across better or that it might just be that the players aren't listening to his voice, but don't tell me he's a s***ty hitting coach.

 

Afterall, most players have gotten better with him than they were in previous organizations, unless of course the guy is just past his prime. Dye, Konerko, Quentin are three guys that got much better with the club. Rowand and Crede both improved significantly under Greg Walker.

 

So enough already. Its not Walkers fault. Look at the s*** he's getting handed or what the Sox are putting out there in the lineup.

 

So seriously. For all of you people b****ing about Walker, wheres the fire Coop thread? Oh wait, Coop isn't at fault cause he was handed nothing for the back end of teh rotation so it shouldn't come as a shock that our pitching staff has struggled mightily at times.

 

When a Walker student goes elsewhere and just dominates or turns the light on, than come tell me, but I haven't seen that happen so I clearly don't believe that Walker is this terrible hitting coach.

 

I swear, I'm going to start banning any dumbass that goes around telling me that Walker should get fired cause we've been shutout 6 times when we throw out lineups with 4 f***ing guys that shouldnt' be starting on a major league team, most of which shouldnt' be freaking near a major league roster.

[BobDylan]

Dude, enough already. Its not Walkers fault that Anderson and Fields have f***ing awful swings. There swings have gotten noticeably better under Walker and they still suck. If you want to give a reason for firing Walker say its because another person might be able to get the message across better or that it might just be that the players aren't listening to his voice, but don't tell me he's a s***ty hitting coach.

 

Afterall, most players have gotten better with him than they were in previous organizations, unless of course the guy is just past his prime. Dye, Konerko, Quentin are three guys that got much better with the club. Rowand and Crede both improved significantly under Greg Walker.

 

So enough already. Its not Walkers fault. Look at the s*** he's getting handed or what the Sox are putting out there in the lineup.

 

So seriously. For all of you people b****ing about Walker, wheres the fire Coop thread? Oh wait, Coop isn't at fault cause he was handed nothing for the back end of teh rotation so it shouldn't come as a shock that our pitching staff has struggled mightily at times.

 

When a Walker student goes elsewhere and just dominates or turns the light on, than come tell me, but I haven't seen that happen so I clearly don't believe that Walker is this terrible hitting coach.

 

I swear, I'm going to start banning any dumbass that goes around telling me that Walker should get fired cause we've been shutout 6 times when we throw out lineups with 4 f***ing guys that shouldnt' be starting on a major league team, most of which shouldnt' be freaking near a major league roster.

 

Yikes. Just when I was starting to get comfortable with my sexuality.

[caulfield12]

Wait a second here!

 

Someone asked me what was the purpose of a hitting coach.

 

I gave a brief/succinct answer.

 

Ask Fathom...we both agree here, that the ONLY thing to say about Greg Walker is that he SHOULD be replaced in the off-season before we bring up the wave of talent from Birmingham. Those hitters (specifically Beckham, Viciedo, Flowers and Allen) are all excellent at spraying the ball all over the field and we simply need a change of approach, a fresh perspective, whatever the heck you want to call it. Things aren't working and the team is just completely stale, every element of the team but the bullpen.

 

I could care less about what Walker does or doesn't do right now, we simply aren't putting the talent on the field to win games. Period. End of story. Some of our line-ups over the last two weeks have been embarassing and could be beaten easily by our Birmingham line-up if they went head to head in 10 games against 10 randomly-selected opposing pitchers.

 

It doesn't even freakin' matter, because KW and JR aren't going to replace someone in the middle of the season, anyway. They're both too loyal. But JR was the idiot who was saying the team was "boring" last year, so we deconstructed it in order to present this product on the field? Whatever...the attendance will be 1.6-1.8 million and then the self-fulfilling prophecy will occur and they'll feel comfortable going into the season with a $60-70 million payroll and keeping ticket prices the same. Then KW will have the nerve to say the fans weren't supporting the team.

 

I like KW, in general, because he HAD, up until this year, a gunfighter's mentality...he took risks and gambles and was generally willing to do whatever it took to put teams on the field in August that had a chance to compete with any team in the AL. This whole offseason, he's either been reading his own press clippings or he really believed that Brent Lillibridge or Jeff Marquez was capable of being a starter...

 

It's a miracle we aren't 10 games under .500 and out of the race already. I don't know how Ozzie has managed to remain out of the insane asylum. Maybe his actions today showed even he is starting to crack up watching line-ups go out there that will win approximately 5-10 games out of 100 where you had the same line-ups and pitchers facing each other.

 

Final note: Everyone in baseball can CLEARLY see that Lillibridge, Fields and Anderson, among others, don't have the type of swings that will hold up in the majors. That Pods was done 3 years ago. They can also see that Getz and Ramirez have the intelligence and hand speed to fix their swings. It wouldn't matter if Charlie Lau or Rudy Jaramillo or Walt Hrniak was our hitting coach, Getz and Ramirez would be okay, and the first three would be in trouble.

 

At least Corky Miller has manned up and gotten some key base hits this year, a lot more than was expected out of him. I'm not going to pick on him and throw up his career batting average or whatever....and Nix has looked like a baseball player, when he didn't last year in Colorado. Whether Nix would credit the change of scenery or Walker or God, who knows.

Edited May 13, 2009 by caulfield12

[Flash Tizzle]

I swear, I'm going to start banning any dumbass that goes around telling me that Walker should get fired cause we've been shutout 6 times when we throw out lineups with 4 f***ing guys that shouldnt' be starting on a major league team, most of which shouldnt' be freaking near a major league roster.

Is this how WSI started their regime of terror?

[greg775]

Final note: Everyone in baseball can CLEARLY see that Lillibridge, Fields and Anderson, among others, don't have the type of swings that will hold up in the majors. That Pods was done 3 years ago. They can also see that Getz and Ramirez have the intelligence and hand speed to fix their swings. It wouldn't matter if Charlie Lau or Rudy Jaramillo or Walt Hrniak was our hitting coach, Getz and Ramirez would be okay, and the first three would be in trouble.

 

OK, then why the f*** mention Walker? I read a story when he got extended where Oz said he puts in an incredible amount of work with these hitters. That's all he can do. He can't tell them all to hit the same way like Charlie Lau did. If we had that, people would be freaking upset as well.

 

The bottom line is "fire the hitting coach" is a baseball cliche that will be around 50 years from now just as it was 30 years ago. Like the mod said, we have several players who don't deserve to SNIFF a big league roster. Period.

When people are tempted to post about Walker they should just scream his name and NOT POST.

It's a cliche to blame the hitting coach/pitching coach.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Dude, enough already. Its not Walkers fault that Anderson and Fields have f***ing awful swings. There swings have gotten noticeably better under Walker and they still suck. If you want to give a reason for firing Walker say its because another person might be able to get the message across better or that it might just be that the players aren't listening to his voice, but don't tell me he's a s***ty hitting coach.

 

Afterall, most players have gotten better with him than they were in previous organizations, unless of course the guy is just past his prime. Dye, Konerko, Quentin are three guys that got much better with the club. Rowand and Crede both improved significantly under Greg Walker.

 

So enough already. Its not Walkers fault. Look at the s*** he's getting handed or what the Sox are putting out there in the lineup.

 

So seriously. For all of you people b****ing about Walker, wheres the fire Coop thread? Oh wait, Coop isn't at fault cause he was handed nothing for the back end of teh rotation so it shouldn't come as a shock that our pitching staff has struggled mightily at times.

 

When a Walker student goes elsewhere and just dominates or turns the light on, than come tell me, but I haven't seen that happen so I clearly don't believe that Walker is this terrible hitting coach.

 

I swear, I'm going to start banning any dumbass that goes around telling me that Walker should get fired cause we've been shutout 6 times when we throw out lineups with 4 f***ing guys that shouldnt' be starting on a major league team, most of which shouldnt' be freaking near a major league roster.

 

L.O.L

 

Oh, yes. Jason has spoken.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Jordan4life

[greg775]

I love how we're all praying for Brian Anderson to come back and save the lineup.

Brian freaking Anderson, the definition of mediocrity at best.

 

Lillibridge is like MacDougal. At this point ... please just get rid of him. Make the minor league fans watch him try to hit home runs and fail at it.

[Balta1701]

I love how we're all praying for Brian Anderson to come back and save the lineup.

Brian freaking Anderson, the definition of mediocrity at best.

 

Lillibridge is like MacDougal. At this point ... please just get rid of him. Make the minor league fans watch him try to hit home runs and fail at it.

And Carlos Quentin. And we've lost Dye and Thome for stretches in the past couple weeks.

 

And we're waiting on Alexei Ramirez to wake up.

 

The slumps Fields and Getz are in...those trouble me a bit.

[greg775]

Yeah we do have a lot of concerns right now.

 

Do you think Lillibridge is the worst hitter in modern Sox history?

[caulfield12]

OK, then why the f*** mention Walker? I read a story when he got extended where Oz said he puts in an incredible amount of work with these hitters. That's all he can do. He can't tell them all to hit the same way like Charlie Lau did. If we had that, people would be freaking upset as well.

 

The bottom line is "fire the hitting coach" is a baseball cliche that will be around 50 years from now just as it was 30 years ago. Like the mod said, we have several players who don't deserve to SNIFF a big league roster. Period.

When people are tempted to post about Walker they should just scream his name and NOT POST.

It's a cliche to blame the hitting coach/pitching coach.

QUOTE

Fields just has WAY too many moving parts in his swing now. It's no wonder he can't hit a Pavano fastball down the pipe. Lillibridge is probably beyond hope for this year...he wasn't even able to pull Jeremy Sowers, but continued to flare lazy flyballs to RF.

 

Getz stands almost as much on top of the plate as Quentin. Of course he's going to get busted inside, and unless he turns on those balls and drives them to RF, it's going to keep happening. It's strange to see a LH hitter struggle so much will pitches that are low, but it's the pitches that are low AND inside that he's specifically dealing with, like a cutter from a RH pitcher. That was MY original quote.

 

 

What is your point? Is Walker supposed to make all guys hit the same way?

This is why players fail. If their swings suck, they are THEIR swings, they suck and they'll be out of baseball soon.

We talk way too much about hitting coaches on here. This was YOUR response, where I never said anything about Walker or making all hitters the same...if I was to say something, it would be hit the ball where it's pitched, lol.

 

WHERE DID I MENTION GREG WALKER???

 

I suppose we can't only NOT talk about Greg Walker or Don Cooper anymore, but we can't even add our own opinions or observations about the hitters?

 

WHAT????

 

So you're suggesting that we now ban any poster who talks about any of the coaches or even Ozzie Guillen? Yes/no?

 

Because our talking about them sure as hell won't change the opinions of KW or JR. In fact, if they read what was said here, they'd be MUCH MORE likely to keep them in place. Really, I think we should just curse at fellow White Sox fans right and left, because that will really have an actual affect on how the team is operated. If you want to curse at ANYONE, call up KW at 674-1000 or whatever the number is, leave your name and address and curse HIM out, not me. You can do that, but it would be cowardly to do it all the way from Kansas. Did you call and b**** at Roy Williams when he never led KU to a National Championship, too??

Edited May 13, 2009 by caulfield12

[Kalapse]

Do you think Lillibridge is the worst hitter in modern Sox history?

Honestly, given the amount of PA's he's already accumulated I'd say yes.

[Balta1701]

Honestly, given the amount of PA's he's already accumulated I'd say yes.

In 2006 Anderson had roughly the same number of PA's and had a similar average...the only difference is Anderson had a couple home runs.

[Kalapse]

In 2006 Anderson had roughly the same number of PA's and had a similar average...the only difference is Anderson had a couple home runs.

.161/.264/.290/.554 through 72 PA for Brian

 

.141/.235/.254/.488 through 81 PA for Brian at his lowest point

 

.154/.247/.185/.431 through 74 PA for Brent

 

At least Brian had a little pop. Lucky for him he turned it around right after he dipped into the sub .500's; 16 plate appearances later and his OPS was up over .600. Pretty damn good comparison though.

[Balta1701]

At least Brian had a little pop.

I was willing to put up with him there because his defense was saving us as many runs as his bat was costing us. I can't say the same about Lilliputian.

[caulfield12]

Andy Gonzalez in 2007

185/280/249/529 OPS

 

Lillibridge this season

154/247/185/431

 

Not even close, Gonzalez is the clear winner.

[Chisoxfn]

Is this how WSI started their regime of terror?

Yep, Caufields schacaneries (I know I screwed up that spelling). Rather that I think its f***ing ridiculous that people seriously believe that Walker is the first guy in baseball history that teaches the "lift and pull" theory.

 

It is such utter crap. And I'm pretty sure that if this was WSI, I would have had to ban myself for saying Anderson and Fields f***ing suck.

[Chisoxfn]

QUOTE

Fields just has WAY too many moving parts in his swing now. It's no wonder he can't hit a Pavano fastball down the pipe. Lillibridge is probably beyond hope for this year...he wasn't even able to pull Jeremy Sowers, but continued to flare lazy flyballs to RF.

 

Getz stands almost as much on top of the plate as Quentin. Of course he's going to get busted inside, and unless he turns on those balls and drives them to RF, it's going to keep happening. It's strange to see a LH hitter struggle so much will pitches that are low, but it's the pitches that are low AND inside that he's specifically dealing with, like a cutter from a RH pitcher. That was MY original quote.

 

 

What is your point? Is Walker supposed to make all guys hit the same way?

This is why players fail. If their swings suck, they are THEIR swings, they suck and they'll be out of baseball soon.

We talk way too much about hitting coaches on here. This was YOUR response, where I never said anything about Walker or making all hitters the same...if I was to say something, it would be hit the ball where it's pitched, lol.

 

WHERE DID I MENTION GREG WALKER???

 

I suppose we can't only NOT talk about Greg Walker or Don Cooper anymore, but we can't even add our own opinions or observations about the hitters?

 

WHAT????

 

So you're suggesting that we now ban any poster who talks about any of the coaches or even Ozzie Guillen? Yes/no?

 

Because our talking about them sure as hell won't change the opinions of KW or JR. In fact, if they read what was said here, they'd be MUCH MORE likely to keep them in place. Really, I think we should just curse at fellow White Sox fans right and left, because that will really have an actual affect on how the team is operated. If you want to curse at ANYONE, call up KW at 674-1000 or whatever the number is, leave your name and address and curse HIM out, not me. You can do that, but it would be cowardly to do it all the way from Kansas. Did you call and b**** at Roy Williams when he never led KU to a National Championship, too??

I'm saying that I'm sick of dumb f***ing comments that have no validity. And yes, Caufield, I am making an example of YOU right here right now. Ie, people blaming Walker for getting shut out six times. You want to tell me Walker sucks, fine, give me a reason or give me X,Y,Z. Don't tell me he does lift and pull or any of that bulls*** cause that is proposterious and I also know he'd have been fired a long time ago if he wasn't solid. The Sox haven't just sat around with piss poor coaches over the last decade.

 

Jerry Manuel was a decent coach, didn't take the team to the next level, gone. Nardi Contreras sucked balls...gone. The Sox have done a good job showing people the door at the right time. I know 30% of this site seems to want Ozzie gone or says how much he sucks this year but again, the guy has done a very good job as a whole. I don't always agree with the way he goes about things and he makes some odd moves but bottom line he wins and gets a lot out of his guys.

 

Right now there is clearly a lack of talent in the everyday lineup and there is nothing Ozzie, Walker, Coop can do with it. The Sox have lost a lot of very good players due to injuries during the course of the early season. Now those guys are getting back and having a regular lineup should make things better.

 

If I see most of the guys suck when healthy for an extended period than fine. And like I said posts ago and even dating back to last year, if you want to fire Walker, you do it because you need to send a message down the line (ie, players aren't listening or aren't putting in the effort to get better or you the manager/front office think players are ignoring the batting coach) than you do it. Otherwise Walker is a good hitting coach. He works with every player and works his f***ing ass off and overall does a pretty good job (given that I've never heard anyone complain about him and if the players didn't like him or he wasn't getting the job done, we'd know. ).

[Chisoxfn]

I was willing to put up with him there because his defense was saving us as many runs as his bat was costing us. I can't say the same about Lilliputian.

I was willing to put up with him because the rest of the offense was very good and Anderson's D was very very important when the other option was sticking out a horrendous defensive Cfer (Mack).

[Jordan4life_2007]

Yep, Caufields schacaneries (I know I screwed up that spelling). Rather that I think its f***ing ridiculous that people seriously believe that Walker is the first guy in baseball history that teaches the "lift and pull" theory.

 

It is such utter crap. And I'm pretty sure that if this was WSI, I would have had to ban myself for saying Anderson and Fields f***ing suck.

 

What the hell? lol. Jason, you're on a roll today, my friend.

[caulfield12]

Well, despite the chicanery and tomfoolery today:

 

KW, having the biggest ego of all GM's west of the NESN broadcasting area, WON'T ever admit that the failure of the team has anything to do with the overall talent level of the team or that he believed they wouldn't compete for the AL Central title in 2009.

 

The question is, who will blow up first if this year trends into another 2007, Ozzie or KW?

 

I would rather have Steve Stone as the GM, personally, and I wouldn't mind seeing Ozzie stick around to manage the new generation of Sox players over the next 2-3 years and see how he does with a team that's more suited for his managerial style: players like Nix, Getz, Ramirez, Allen and Beckham, mixing in the power of Flowers/Viciedo and the speed/athleticism of Danks/Shelby.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kyyle23]

Well, despite the chicanery and tomfoolery today:

 

KW, having the biggest ego of all GM's west of the NESN broadcasting area, WON'T ever admit that the failure of the team has anything to do with the overall talent level of the team or that he believed they wouldn't compete for the AL Central title in 2009.

 

The question is, who will blow up first if this year trends into another 2007, Ozzie or KW?

 

I would rather have Steve Stone as the GM, personally, and I wouldn't mind seeing Ozzie stick around to manage the new generation of Sox players over the next 2-3 years and see how he does with a team that's more suited for his managerial style: players like Nix, Getz, Ramirez, Allen and Beckham, mixing in the power of Flowers/Viciedo and the speed/athleticism of Danks/Shelby.

 

GMAB, KW is no different from any other GM in the game, we just are exposed to every little thing he says, quit acting like he kicked your dog.

[Balta1701]

Well, despite the chicanery and tomfoolery today:

 

KW, having the biggest ego of all GM's west of the NESN broadcasting area, WON'T ever admit that the failure of the team has anything to do with the overall talent level of the team or that he believed they wouldn't compete for the AL Central title in 2009.

 

The question is, who will blow up first if this year trends into another 2007, Ozzie or KW?

 

I would rather have Steve Stone as the GM, personally, and I wouldn't mind seeing Ozzie stick around to manage the new generation of Sox players over the next 2-3 years and see how he does with a team that's more suited for his managerial style: players like Nix, Getz, Ramirez, Allen and Beckham, mixing in the power of Flowers/Viciedo and the speed/athleticism of Danks/Shelby.

It really amazes me how little credit KW is given for what has transpired with this team over the last 2 years.

 

In 2007, everything that KW had tried to rely on blew up. The bullpen fell apart, the starters struggled, the offense was anemic, the guys we were hoping could fill in, didn't. We were a 70 win team and we looked like we might stay that way for a number of years, esp. since 3 of our key guys were getting up there in age.

 

In 2008, by virtue of a couple trades that seemingly totally depleted our minor leagues, we managed to get back up to where we were in 2006; a nearly 90 win, playoff caliber team, and perhaps the only reason we didn't go farther is that a couple of key guys wound up ravaged by injury.

 

At the same time as KW was totally rebuilding the major league team within 1 year, he was totally rebuilding the minor league team within 1 year as well. At the start of 2008, I don't know if I could name a single guy from the lower or middle minors who I thought might be available in 2010 for the big leagues with any kind of talent. Poreda maybe, but that's about it. Now, with 1 year changed, our AA team appears absolutely loaded, with something like 6-7 guys who could legitimately be on the big league team within 2 years, several of whom could legitimately be all stars. Our single A level doesn't appear bad either...we're really loaded in pitching at that level. We've rebuild the minors to the point that we could be a legit player for anyone on the trade deadline this year, or we can hold them and be able to make some major, cheap strides next year.

 

And on top of that, we're holding 4 picks in the first 2 rounds this year.

 

We rebuilt the major league team from 70 wins to 90 wins in 1 year, while at the same time totally rebuilding the minor leagues...and we did it while simultaneously cutting salary in the middle of a recession.

 

Regardless of how this season turns out...we're getting unlucky with slumps and injuries right now, hopefully that turns around...KW has done an absolutely remarkable job of turning this organization around in the space of less than a year.

[Chisoxfn]

Oh I quietly think the White Sox are really building towards 2010/2011. It seems pretty evident by the way they handled the off-season and in no way shape or form am I advocating the firing of Kenny. I do think if he thought this team was going to compete he made a massive mistake or mis-evaluation but by and large I think he's one of the very best GM's in baseball and does a very good job with the resources he has.

 

Give him the Red Sox payroll and I think we have an organization similar to theres or at least a chance of that and right now there is no organization even close to being as good as the Red Sox.

[Balta1701]

Oh I quietly think the White Sox are really building towards 2010/2011.

And even with that, if we can get a little luckier and get Quentin, Alexei, and Floyd out of their current slumps, the only thing that will stop us from making another run this year is someone really taking off. This team is just going to be deadly the next few years...we reloaded on talent like the Pirates or Rays do out of the draft, but we did so with only 1 losing season.

[Dick Allen]

And even with that, if we can get a little luckier and get Quentin, Alexei, and Floyd out of their current slumps, the only thing that will stop us from making another run this year is someone really taking off. This team is just going to be deadly the next few years...we reloaded on talent like the Pirates or Rays do out of the draft, but we did so with only 1 losing season.

Before you break KW's back patting it so much, Beckham, Danks and Viciedo are 3 guys 99 % of Soxtalk could have come up with. I give him credit for getting Tyler Flowers although he is a PED guy. I also applaud him for ridding himself of Nick Swisher.

 

The economy argument is BS. The economy is so bad and professional sports is such a bad business to be in, 72 year old JR is contemplating adding a bankrupt NHL team to his portfolio. The Blackhawks, Bulls, Bears and Cubs have shown that putting a winning team together will draw fans in this particular economy. They talk about lost advertising. Comcast, which the team owns 20% of, has had its ratings more than double which will increase ad revenue. There were plenty of players available to help this season at discount prices that KW passed on. He claims to be the gunslinger like what's been stated above, but what he did this offseason is act like a turtle going back into his shell. There is absolutely no reason Brent Lillibridge should be with the team right now.

 

The team has potential in the future, but pitching is everything. If they don't develop a few, they may be a fun team to watch, but probably won't win anything.