Dick Allen Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 13, 2009 -> 10:12 AM) Not so fast. WHITE SOX TEAM ERA on the Road (the best independent variable we can use to compare the offense and pitching) 2008 5th in AL, 13th in MLB 2007 7th in AL, 15th in MLB 2006 8th in AL, 18th in MLB 2005 1st in AL, 1st in MLB 2004 7th in AL, 19th in MLB AVERAGE ranks for White Sox pitching on the road, 5.6/14 in AL, 13.2/30 IN MLB Runs Scored Per Game on the Road 2008 12th in AL, 23rd in MLB 2007 14th in AL, 29th in MLB 2006 4th in AL, 8th in MLB 2005 8th in AL, 11th in MLB 2004 7th in AL, 13th in MLB Average ranks for White Sox RSPG on the road, 9th/14th in the AL, 17/30 in MLB 2008 Buerhle ERA home 2.65 away 5.05 Contreras ERA home3.25 away 5.85 Floyd ERA home 3.55 away 4.18 Vazquez ERA home4.25 away 5.10 Danks ERA home3.66 away 2.92 From 2004-2008 there is less than 0.10 difference between the collective home and road White Sox ERA. Edited May 14, 2009 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 QUOTE (kyyle23 @ May 13, 2009 -> 06:53 PM) GMAB, KW is no different from any other GM in the game, we just are exposed to every little thing he says, quit acting like he kicked your dog. Kicked my dog? GMAB back. I've been one of the bigger defenders and cheerleaders of KW through the last 2-3 seasons. Yes, I think there are better ones out there, but there are many more that are worse. Name me another GM whose quotes are in the papers more often about silly things like Frank Thomas and "pitching inside" to opposing players? He's a smart guy, but he can't get out of his own way sometimes...but I'll wait for your list of the GM's with bigger egos. I'll give you Billy Beane and Theo Epstein, who else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 13, 2009 -> 08:05 PM) Kicked my dog? GMAB back. I've been one of the bigger defenders and cheerleaders of KW through the last 2-3 seasons. Yes, I think there are better ones out there, but there are many more that are worse. Name me another GM whose quotes are in the papers more often about silly things like Frank Thomas and "pitching inside" to opposing players? He's a smart guy, but he can't get out of his own way sometimes...but I'll wait for your list of the GM's with bigger egos. I'll give you Billy Beane and Theo Epstein, who else? I just saw something on rain delay television the other day, KW was bragging about the the minor leagues being ranked #1 when he was in charge. He didn't mention they were vastly overrated though. He's pompous without a doubt. He has the false modestly thing going. At least he used to be aggressive. I don't know if JR neutered him or not, but he's turning into Ron Schueler now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 13, 2009 -> 07:50 PM) 2008 Buerhle ERA home 2.65 away 5.05 Contreras ERA home3.25 away 5.85 Floyd ERA home 3.55 away 4.18 Vazquez ERA home4.25 away 5.10 Danks ERA home3.66 away 2.92 Walker is more vilified, Cooper is more praised...both are somewhere in the middle. However, I would imagine if both of them were fired, Cooper would get more job offers. It's really hard to break down who should be better...because the White Sox invested a lot more of their money in the pitching staff in 05/06 than they did in their hitters...so does that mean Cooper was expected to have such a great pitching staff in 2005? Or that he did a bad job when they regressed the next year? Or simply that they were all stressed from the extra innings and playoff baseball and a falloff was unavoidable? Last year, our homefield advantage was one of the best in the league, I'm sure it really helped the pitchers despite pitching at USCF...like the playoff game against the Twins with Danks on the hill. That adrenaline kicking in and the 26th man affect has to help quite a bit, too. Edited May 14, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 It's just amazing at the lengths you guys are going to in order to find fault with the position the Sox are sitting in right now so that you can go after KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 13, 2009 -> 08:05 PM) Kicked my dog? GMAB back. I've been one of the bigger defenders and cheerleaders of KW through the last 2-3 seasons. Yes, I think there are better ones out there, but there are many more that are worse. Name me another GM whose quotes are in the papers more often about silly things like Frank Thomas and "pitching inside" to opposing players? He's a smart guy, but he can't get out of his own way sometimes...but I'll wait for your list of the GM's with bigger egos. I'll give you Billy Beane and Theo Epstein, who else? Exactly how many teams do you follow in depth to the point of reading their message boards, blogs, local newspapers, local programing etc to know how much their GMs are quoted? We know Kenny because we seek out all things of the Sox. Of course it seems like he talks a lot because that is what we are reading. Its like reading a liberal blog and wondering why Obama is always talking so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 13, 2009 -> 08:27 PM) Exactly how many teams do you follow in depth to the point of reading their message boards, blogs, local newspapers, local programing etc to know how much their GMs are quoted? We know Kenny because we seek out all things of the Sox. Of course it seems like he talks a lot because that is what we are reading. Its like reading a liberal blog and wondering why Obama is always talking so much. I read the KC Star, the Minneapolis Star Tribune, the Plain Dealer, The Free Press and the 3 Chicago papers... One thousand people at the Mall of America could walk by Bill Smith and not recognize him. Dayton Moore, same thing. Williams, Dombrowski and Shapiro make more of an effort to get their face and quotes in the papers and especially in the national media. Edited May 14, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 13, 2009 -> 08:05 PM) Kicked my dog? GMAB back. I've been one of the bigger defenders and cheerleaders of KW through the last 2-3 seasons. Yes, I think there are better ones out there, but there are many more that are worse. Name me another GM whose quotes are in the papers more often about silly things like Frank Thomas and "pitching inside" to opposing players? He's a smart guy, but he can't get out of his own way sometimes...but I'll wait for your list of the GM's with bigger egos. I'll give you Billy Beane and Theo Epstein, who else? JP Ricciardi/Adam Dunn, Jim Bowden while with the Nats and Cinci was pretty outspoken, Omar Minaya is a daily quote in any NY paper and save your "i was his biggest cheerleader" speech, you havent been on ST very long and you have already written three novels on KW and they have gradually turned on him, and now he has the biggest ego ever and kicked your dog. so GMAB back to you I read the KC Star, the Minneapolis Star Tribune, the Plain Dealer, The Free Press and the 3 Chicago papers... One thousand people at the Mall of America could walk by Bill Smith and not recognize him. Dayton Moore, same thing. Williams, Dombrowski and Shapiro make more of an effort to get their face and quotes in the papers and especially in the national media. Oh, so now you think Dombrowski and Shapiro are part of the outspoken/too much facetime group too? Since when does facial recognition have anything to do with the issue? Plenty of GMs are unrecognizable to most of the public, they are front office people. That doesnt mean they dont talk to the papers and get their opinions out there Edited May 14, 2009 by kyyle23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Also worth noting...Bill Smith and Dayton Moore have been GM's for significantly less time combined than KW has been GM in Chicago for (1.5 years and 3 years, respectively). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 QUOTE (kyyle23 @ May 13, 2009 -> 09:22 PM) JP Ricciardi/Adam Dunn, Jim Bowden while with the Nats and Cinci was pretty outspoken, Omar Minaya is a daily quote in any NY paper and save your "i was his biggest cheerleader" speech, you havent been on ST very long and you have already written three novels on KW and they have gradually turned on him, and now he has the biggest ego ever and kicked your dog. so GMAB back to you Oh, so now you think Dombrowski and Shapiro are part of the outspoken/too much facetime group too? Since when does facial recognition have anything to do with the issue? Plenty of GMs are unrecognizable to most of the public, they are front office people. That doesnt mean they dont talk to the papers and get their opinions out there Ricciardi actually participates in a fan call-in show on Toronto radio, as alluded to by Kyle here, and ARGUES with the fans! You want to talk about a guy with an ego? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 13, 2009 -> 07:27 PM) Ricciardi actually participates in a fan call-in show on Toronto radio, as alluded to by Kyle here, and ARGUES with the fans! You want to talk about a guy with an ego? He had that thing with Adam Dunn last year didn't he. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2009 -> 09:27 PM) Also worth noting...Bill Smith and Dayton Moore have been GM's for significantly less time combined than KW has been GM in Chicago for (1.5 years and 3 years, respectively). Yeah, in Minnesota and Kansas City of all places, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 13, 2009 -> 09:27 PM) Ricciardi actually participates in a fan call-in show on Toronto radio, as alluded to by Kyle here, and ARGUES with the fans! You want to talk about a guy with an ego? was it Ricciardi that sent an email to a fan pretty much telling him to STFU? i know it has happened twice in the past year, with two different sports( i think it was an NFL front office guy that did it as well) and I am pretty sure it was Ricciardi that did it, shortly after his Dunn comments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 13, 2009 -> 09:13 PM) I read the KC Star, the Minneapolis Star Tribune, the Plain Dealer, The Free Press and the 3 Chicago papers... One thousand people at the Mall of America could walk by Bill Smith and not recognize him. Dayton Moore, same thing. Williams, Dombrowski and Shapiro make more of an effort to get their face and quotes in the papers and especially in the national media. So you read some small town newspapers, and that is the same thing? If nothing else, the level of the Chicago media is way more intense than those towns. You still didn't get into all of the other things that we follow here for coverage of the Sox to make the exposure of each of those teams equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Anyone want to buy a keychain? http://www.anthonyrobbinsfoundation.org/st...productid=16194 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (kyyle23 @ May 13, 2009 -> 09:22 PM) JP Ricciardi/Adam Dunn, Jim Bowden while with the Nats and Cinci was pretty outspoken, Omar Minaya is a daily quote in any NY paper and save your "i was his biggest cheerleader" speech, you havent been on ST very long and you have already written three novels on KW and they have gradually turned on him, and now he has the biggest ego ever and kicked your dog. so GMAB back to you Oh, so now you think Dombrowski and Shapiro are part of the outspoken/too much facetime group too? Since when does facial recognition have anything to do with the issue? Plenty of GMs are unrecognizable to most of the public, they are front office people. That doesnt mean they dont talk to the papers and get their opinions out there He does have one of the biggest egos ever, so does Obama (who I voted for, before you accuse me of being anti-Obama and a socialist), but Obama's doesn't have any affect on attendance, future revenues, fan attitudes, etc. So I'll keep it short and simple: 1) KW is a good GM, in general 2) KW has done a good job rebuilding the farm system 3) Almost none of the players he has traded have had an impact elsewhere, with the exception of Frank Francisco and maybe Chris Young 4) KW really believes that he can see things no other scout in baseball can pick up...or he's the best "spin doctor" in the world...based on his belief in Colon, Contreras, Lillibridge, Miller, Fields, Ramirez, etc., coming into this season. 5) KW could care less what the fans think, even when he is wrong Do you really believe that he's the best GM in baseball and is beyond questioning, ever? However, I am very much elated to see that someone is keeping track of the general "tone and tenor" of my thousands of postings about KW. Edited May 14, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 13, 2009 -> 09:27 PM) Ricciardi actually participates in a fan call-in show on Toronto radio, as alluded to by Kyle here, and ARGUES with the fans! You want to talk about a guy with an ego? KW gets fired up at fans at Soxfest Q &As. At least he used to. I haven't gone the past couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 14, 2009 -> 07:20 AM) KW gets fired up at fans at Soxfest Q &As. At least he used to. I haven't gone the past couple of years. I am fully aware that KW has an ego. My point is that he fits right in with plenty of GMs, if not most. QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 14, 2009 -> 07:20 AM) Do you really believe that he's the best GM in baseball and is beyond questioning, ever? However, I am very much elated to see that someone is keeping track of the general "tone and tenor" of my thousands of postings about KW. Did I say that? Please point that out. He does have one of the biggest egos ever, so does Obama (who I voted for, before you accuse me of being anti-Obama and a socialist), but Obama's doesn't have any affect on attendance, future revenues, fan attitudes, etc. Do you honestly read this stuff back to yourself and say "Yep, this fits in with the conversation" wtf? Edited May 14, 2009 by kyyle23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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