Jordan vs. LeBron, who you got?

[MurcieOne]

MJ>Lebron

 

However, if you asked me if I think it might be possible for Lebron to overtake MJ at some point, I'd have to say yes.

 

I mean it's not really fair to compare the two's statistics after their careers are over because Lebron will most likely play maybe six or seven seasons more than MJ did.

 

However, I mean you watch LeBron play and you can't help but be in awe of the guy. LeBron -- if he continues to focus on defense and making the players around him better -- might win more than six titles. I have the feeling that we are about the enter the era of LeBron completely dominating the NBA for years and years. (as in winning championships)

 

Looking forward I don't see a legitimate team in the East that will stand in his way. Boston is aging and they have probably 1 more run at a title next year if KG, Pierce, and Allen all stay healthy. The Magic are perhaps the only team that would provide LeBron a serious threat in the next 3 seasons, and I'm not even sure that they will be able to actually ever win a series against LeBron.

 

If LeBron manages to win 7-8 titles... I think this argument changes considerably.

 

In terms of persona, I like MJ a lot more than LeBron. I think MJ had the persona of I AM GOING TO BEAT YOU without ever actually coming out and saying I'm the best. LeBron has made his game a spectacle and his antics before the game kind of put me off.

 

Whatever, I will always love MJ more than LeBron regardless. But it is kind of fun to have a player that could even invoke such a discussion

[Soxbadger]

Lebron is already better than Magic. Sorry.

 

WHAT?

 

Magic Johnson averaged 20 points, 11 assists and 7 rebs. (Career)

 

Lebron James 27.5 pts, 6.7 assists and 7 rebs.

 

 

4 more assists > 7.5 points

 

Especially when you consider Magic was a 6'8 POINT GUARD, where as Lebron is a small forward/shooting guard.

 

Its not even a great comparison because they both played very different positions, and Magic never was really the "scorer" with Kareem already there.

 

At age 22 Magic averaged 18.6 points, 9.6 rebs and 9.5 assists.

 

That's basically averaging a triple double.

 

Lebron is good, I just doubt that he could play point guard as well as Magic, where as Magic could easily have been a SF/SG and even played Center.

 

 

 

 

[SoxFan1]

WHAT?

 

Magic Johnson averaged 20 points, 11 assists and 7 rebs. (Career)

 

Lebron James 27.5 pts, 6.7 assists and 7 rebs.

 

 

4 more assists > 7.5 points

 

Especially when you consider Magic was a 6'8 POINT GUARD, where as Lebron is a small forward/shooting guard.

 

Its not even a great comparison because they both played very different positions, and Magic never was really the "scorer" with Kareem already there.

 

At age 22 Magic averaged 18.6 points, 9.6 rebs and 9.5 assists.

 

That's basically averaging a triple double.

 

Lebron is good, I just doubt that he could play point guard as well as Magic, where as Magic could easily have been a SF/SG and even played Center.

I dont buy the position argument at all. Scottie Pippen was a point forward. If Magic can play Center, then Lebron James SURE AS f*** can play Center. Lebron also doesn't have the players around him that Magic did.

 

And if you're going to say that 4 more assists > 7.5 points, then that's kind of nitpicking. Assuming that those 4 assists all ended in 2 point buckets, then Magic has .5 points on him. And even if all 4 were 3 pointers, he's got 4.5 points on him. I wouldn't call Lebron a small forward or a shooting guard, I wouldn't call him a point guard either. He does whatever he wants, and he does handle the ball a lot anyway.

[santo=dorf]

See sig.

 

 

Jordan had much more success at the collegiate level.

[rangercal]

WHAT?

 

Magic Johnson averaged 20 points, 11 assists and 7 rebs. (Career)

 

Lebron James 27.5 pts, 6.7 assists and 7 rebs.

 

 

4 more assists > 7.5 points

 

Especially when you consider Magic was a 6'8 POINT GUARD, where as Lebron is a small forward/shooting guard.

 

Its not even a great comparison because they both played very different positions, and Magic never was really the "scorer" with Kareem already there.

 

At age 22 Magic averaged 18.6 points, 9.6 rebs and 9.5 assists.

 

That's basically averaging a triple double.

 

Lebron is good, I just doubt that he could play point guard as well as Magic, where as Magic could easily have been a SF/SG and even played Center.

 

I love your points. I would like to counter with Magic's supporting cast. It's a lot more easy running the Lake Show, than it is to run with Mo,Z and Delonte West.

[rangercal]

I wonder how many of the Lebron votes so far were from "Bulls haters"

[lostfan]

I don't think it's a stretch to say Magic probably could've scored if he wanted/had to.

[bmags]

I think it's kind of silly to use the term "Michael paved the way for lebron" that's not what was meant by keeping the context of the era in mind. There would've been a lebron regardless of a MJ, other players played the same way they just weren't as good.

 

There is an intangible viewing quality to watching Michael Jordan play. It's not just, he was so much better. It's that he was so creative and you watched him and it was something you'd never seen before. He was doing things on the fly no one else could've thought up with 15 minutes and knowing what the defense was going to do. It was otherworldly.

[illinilaw08]

The one thing that one has brought up yet in this argument is the fact that MJ did what no other player to my knowledge has ever been able to do in the NBA. When MJ began to lose a step and couldn't get to the rim whenever he wanted, he developed the turnaround fadeaway that was absolutely, positively, unguardable.

 

When Lebron loses a step and can't get to the rim whenever he wants, will he be able to adapt the way MJ did? Knowing Jordan's career arc, and taking into account his ability to adapt his game, I don't see how anyone could take Lebron over him.

[SoxAce]

MJ

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And then Kobe, and then LeBron.

 

Agreed. I love LeBron and he is basically Magic Johnson 2.0 right now (probably will be better than him the future) but Kobe is the closest thing we will ever see to a Micheal Jordan, and he still won't be as good. LeBron just doesn't have that vulture/dagger mentality. He is more team oriented. Sure he has his moments every now and then but he really hesitates, especially late in the game or getting the last shot.

 

[rangercal]

Agreed. I love LeBron and he is basically Magic Johnson 2.0 right now (probably will be better than him the future) but Kobe is the closest thing we will ever see to a Micheal Jordan, and he still won't be as good. LeBron just doesn't have that vulture/dagger mentality. He is more team oriented. Sure he has his moments every now and then but he really hesitates, especially late in the game or getting the last shot.

 

This would be a poll for a different thread, but I am positive most people would prefer Lebron over Kobe.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Lebron is already better than Magic. Sorry.

 

No way in hell is Lebron at 24 better than a top-5 player of all-time.

[rangercal]

No way in hell is Lebron at 24 better than a top-5 player of all-time.

 

I don't think he was talking about career accomplishments. I can make an argument that Lebron, NOW is better than Magic was at his best. Of course you can make a good argument for both sides.

[danman31]

Anyone who says LeBron is absolutely kidding themselves. They are different types of players. Kobe is more like Michael, but still isn't anywhere near as good. Kobe needs to win a title as the best player before he belongs in the discussion. He might this year, but it's not a discussion. You can make a much, much better case for Chamberlain or Russell over Michael for sheer dominance, but at that point you are comparing apples to oranges.

[rangercal]

Anyone who says LeBron is absolutely kidding themselves. They are different types of players. Kobe is more like Michael, but still isn't anywhere near as good. Kobe needs to win a title as the best player before he belongs in the discussion. He might this year, but it's not a discussion. You can make a much, much better case for Chamberlain or Russell over Michael for sheer dominance, but at that point you are comparing apples to oranges.

 

I agree with you at this point. Keep in mind, that this is the absolute GROUND FLOOR of these comparisons. I don't envision Lebron slowing down. I also think he is at the start of a run of titles and MVPs.

 

If that doesn't happen, then there is obviously no comparison. My money is on Lebron dominating the NBA the next 10 seasons.

Edited May 8, 2009 by rangercal

[MexSoxFan#1]

If you were starting a franchise... whom would you select?

 

You get said player as he enters the NBA.

 

I'd be taking LeBron. I love Jordan, but LeBron, in my mind, might already be as good as Jordan ever was... at 24.

I would love me some of what you're smoking!

[kjshoe04]

I wonder how many of the Lebron votes so far were from "Bulls haters"

Well, I am one of the Lebron votes, and I assume Steve is another and we are both pretty big bulls fans.

 

Agreed. I love LeBron and he is basically Magic Johnson 2.0 right now (probably will be better than him the future) but Kobe is the closest thing we will ever see to a Micheal Jordan, and he still won't be as good. LeBron just doesn't have that vulture/dagger mentality. He is more team oriented. Sure he has his moments every now and then but he really hesitates, especially late in the game or getting the last shot.

I don't think that the Lebron being hesitant argument at the end of games is even valid anymore. In case anyone hasn't noticed, he is a man on a mission right now. I think that he is going to develop to at least the second best player of all time, with a better chance than we've seen to eclipse Jordan.

[Paint it Black]

You guys have the blinders on if you don't say LeBron.

 

Totally agree. LeBron is doing things MJ wished he could have done at 24. Better 3 point shooter and overall just a better polished game considering his age.

 

But I don't know why I should be surprised at the poll results, coming from this city. Remember the Kobe stuff? WE CAN'T GET KOBE THIS CORE IS YOUNG!!!!!11

 

Edited May 8, 2009 by Paint it Black

[ZoomSlowik]

Totally agree. LeBron is doing things MJ wished he could have done at 24. Better 3 point shooter and overall just a better polished game considering his age.

 

You do realize that Michael won the scoring title, MVP, and defensive player of the year when he was 24, right?

 

Lebron isn't exactly an amazing shooter either, 34% from the arc and 37.5% on 2-point jumpers isn't exactly scaring anyone, teams will gladly let him take those shots if they can force him to do it. That's the problem though, he's RIDICULOUSLY good on the drive.

Edited May 8, 2009 by ZoomSlowik

[lostfan]

You do realize that Michael won the scoring title, MVP, and defensive player of the year when he was 24, right?

Haha. Beat me to it. You would think MJ was chopped liver early in his career or something. He came into the league with instant impact and he was thoroughly dominating in his 3rd year - probably would've happened in his 2nd year if he didn't break his foot and miss most of the year.

[MexSoxFan#1]

Totally agree. LeBron is doing things MJ wished he could have done at 24. Better 3 point shooter and overall just a better polished game considering his age.

 

But I don't know why I should be surprised at the poll results, coming from this city. Remember the Kobe stuff? WE CAN'T GET KOBE THIS CORE IS YOUNG!!!!!11

Oh please,how old are you guys?I bet you never saw MJ's games in the 80's,you've only seen the highlights or you wouldn't be talking this ridiculous junk.

One more thing,if you are going to point out positive accomplishments that LeBron has done at his young age,you also got to point out that in his first Finals he was basically worthless,and pointing out how young he was is a cop out,can't have it both ways.

Edited May 8, 2009 by MexSoxFan#1

[Jordan4life_2007]

I don't think he was talking about career accomplishments. I can make an argument that Lebron, NOW is better than Magic was at his best. Of course you can make a good argument for both sides.

 

And I would still say he's crazy. Magic's peak was disgustingly good. 3 MVP's in a 4-year stretch (1987-1990) in a league that included Jordan, Bird, Hakeem, Malone, Drexler, ect.

 

Totally agree. LeBron is doing things MJ wished he could have done at 24. Better 3 point shooter and overall just a better polished game considering his age.

 

But I don't know why I should be surprised at the poll results, coming from this city. Remember the Kobe stuff? WE CAN'T GET KOBE THIS CORE IS YOUNG!!!!!11

 

Scoring title, MVP, DPOY, steals leader, most blocks by a guard for one season in NBA history in his 4th season in which he was 24 when it began and 25 when it ended. Yeah, MJ could never dream of doing what Lebron's doing.

Edited May 8, 2009 by Jordan4life

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Totally agree. LeBron is doing things MJ wished he could have done at 24. Better 3 point shooter and overall just a better polished game considering his age.

 

WOW

[Soxbadger]

To those who say Magic did better because he didnt have the supporting cast, lets look at one of the most important games when Magic had to play without Kareem. It would seem that if Magic benefited so much from Kareem, that Magic wouldnt have put that good of numbers up right?

 

 

On May 16, 1980, in Game 6 of the NBA Finals, playing on the road, in Philadelphia, Magic (a 6'9" point guard) started the game at center and eventually played every position on the floor in a dominating performance. Scoring a game-high 42 points and grabbing a game-high 15 rebounds -- and handing out 7 assists -- Magic Johnson led the Lakers to the NBA crown, stunning Julius Erving, the Philadelphia 76ers, and a national television audience who came to understand the moniker "Magic."

 

 

So with out Kareem, Magic scored 42 points, 15 rebs and 7 assists.

 

Perhaps if Magic didnt have the supporting cast he did, he would have put up even more points.

 

I mean Pippen was a great defender, but I really dont think you can put him even close to the same level as Magic in terms of offense.

 

Pippen: 16 points, 6 rebs, 5 assists and 2 steals.

 

Magic: 19 points, 7 rebs, 11 assists and 1.9 steals.

 

Lebron is 27, 7, 7 and 1.8

 

If Lebron had Kareem and played point do I think that he would put up similar numbers to Magic?

 

Most likely.

 

But to say today Lebron is better than Magic doesnt really do justice to Magic Johnson who in his rookie season won Finals MVP, who in his second full season won Finals MVP, who was named Finals MVP 3 times, League MVP 2 times, All NBA 9 times in a row, who is the career leader in average assists per game.

 

Lebron is great, he has 1 MVP to his name, but in his 4 years of NBA play he has only been All NBA first team 2 times. Magic was All NBA first team basically every single year of his career.

 

Magic, prior to MJ, was considered one of the most prolific winners as well.

 

I guess I dont consider Wilt Chamberlain the best either, its not always about stats.

 

[RockRaines]

WOW

Its like just posting "i have no idea what im talking about, but here are some words to ignore."

 

 

 

LeBron is a great player and a physical freak of nature. He is a matchup nightmare which has changed the NBA a bit on what types of players teams go after. However, I DO think that his size will get the best of him as he ages. Larger players tend to lose more than a step as they get older and I will be interested to see how he develops his game into his 30's.