Jordan vs. LeBron, who you got?

[rangercal]

How do you not like Michael Jordan?

 

He must be a Jazz fan

[rangercal]

I don't like Jordan one bit, but even I'd take him over LeBron. Jordan had a killer instinct, not saying LeBron doesn't, but there are few athletes ever that probably had it as good or better than Jordan.

 

This question can be taken many ways. Are we going with Jordan's accomplishments and LeBron's upside? I would take accomplishments over upside for my player any day. Although I highly doubt that Jordan would win 6 championships in his career if he was drafted next season. I'm not saying he wouldn't win any, but 6 would be hard to accomplish. As far LeBron, we don't know if his body will break down by the time he's 30 or whatever age. It probably won't happen, but it's hard to say because he could suffer an injury or something.

 

Is that really the best ammo you have in Diminishing Jordan? Pathetic.

[Balta1701]

Is that really the best ammo you have in Diminishing Jordan? Pathetic.

If he was drafted now, you're right he might not win 6 championships. He might win 8.

[SoxFan1]

If he was drafted now, you're right he might not win 6 championships. He might win 8.

We would have won 8 if he didn't retire the 1st time. MJ would seriously annihilate the league today. No handchecks, no physical play, bad overall defense...

[WilliamTell]

Is that really the best ammo you have in Diminishing Jordan? Pathetic.

 

How am I diminishing Jordan's talents? I couldn't see him winning 6 championships for the Sacremento Kings or the Toronto Raptors, teams like that. It's my opinion and we'll never know what it would turn out because it's not going to happen, that's why it's fun to have a decent discussion. There's no need to accuse me of "diminishing Jordan" and saying I'm pathetic.

 

I said earlier that I don't like Jordan, but in high school I wrote a paper on how I thought he was the greatest basketball player of all time and had the most impact in the sport next to Wilt Chamberlain. I have no reason to try to diminish Jordan.

Edited May 9, 2009 by WilliamTell

[GoodAsGould]

Excuse me, I'm not diminishing Jordan's talents, I couldn't see him winning 6 championships for the Sacremento Kings or the Toronto Raptors. What's pathetic is the way you like to attack others opinions on this board.

 

Really, throw Jordan with the Raptors and I consider them the favorite to win it all. Your right about the Kings, but than again the Bulls were a pretty pathetic team when they drafted Jordan as well. Even with the Kings, Kevin Martin is better than anyone on the bulls when they got Jordan.

[WilliamTell]

Really, throw Jordan with the Raptors and I consider them the favorite to win it all. Your right about the Kings, but than again the Bulls were a pretty pathetic team when they drafted Jordan as well. Even with the Kings, Kevin Martin is better than anyone on the bulls when they got Jordan.

 

They'd have to keep Bosh and/or Marion, but I picked to random teams that weren't very good this year. I could've picked the Clippers or Grizzlies, whoever. I wouldn't be picky with either Jordan or LeBron, it'd be great to have either one on your team. What I respect most about Jordan was the way he was able to include the other 4 players on the court and improve their performance.

Edited May 9, 2009 by WilliamTell

[IamtheHBOMB]

Good god, do some research on 1980's basketball. Before Pippen developed around 89-90, Jordan would have had to single-handedly beat the Bad Boys, the Bird-led Celtics AND the Showtime Lakers to win a title. Those are only three of the best teams EVER. Their second best player through that stretch was Charles Oakley, who may have averaged a double-double but also averaged about 14 points on a mid-40's shooting percentage and turned it over at a similar rate to Jordan.

 

Zoom, I love it when you analyze.

 

 

I'll buy Jordan pushed Scottie to be better, but the Bulls went to a conference final without Jordan and we all know how that went down. Scottie was at least a Hall of Famer on his own team.

 

Hue Hollins can suck my balls. I honestly believe that the Bulls would have won that series if not for that momentum changing call. I also think they would have beaten Indiana in the conference final and had a legit shot to defeat Houston in the NBA finals as well. I feel that Scottie would get a lot more respect if things played out that way.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

As for my poll vote, Michael gets it because he has accomplished something LeBron can never top: SPACE JAM

Edited May 9, 2009 by IamtheHBOMB

[rangercal]

How am I diminishing Jordan's talents? I couldn't see him winning 6 championships for the Sacremento Kings or the Toronto Raptors, teams like that. It's my opinion and we'll never know what it would turn out because it's not going to happen, that's why it's fun to have a decent discussion. There's no need to accuse me of "diminishing Jordan" and saying I'm pathetic.

 

I said earlier that I don't like Jordan, but in high school I wrote a paper on how I thought he was the greatest basketball player of all time and had the most impact in the sport next to Wilt Chamberlain. I have no reason to try to diminish Jordan.

 

This type of argument is a joke.

[knightni]

He must be a Jazz fan

 

 

He is a Jazz fan.

[shipps]

He is a Jazz fan.

 

Noooooo....he is a fan of Jazz hands.

[knightni]

Noooooo....he is a fan of Jazz hands.

That too.

 

 

"SUPERSTAR!!!"

[Soxfest]

Jordan hands down...............LJ could not carry Jordan's jock EVER!

[iamshack]

Wow, Rock. Thanks for posting those YouTube videos.

 

Amazing to see the things he was doing at a time when no one else was even close.

 

Several of those plays still look insane and original, even 20-25 years after they were made.

[Balta1701]

For the stat geeks. Comparing Kobe and Mike, not Lebron, but you get hte point.

Although Kobe is good in many areas, Jordan was flat out dominant. If you count all the seasons where a player averaged 30 pts/36 with a true shooting percentage over 58.9% (Jordan’s averages at Kobe’s age) since the 3-point era, you’ll find only 4 such seasons. Three belong to Jordan, and the fourth is Kiki Vandeweghe. Do the same with Kobe’s averages (24.8 pts/36, 55.8 ts%), and you’ll find 113 seasons. Kobe only has 4 of those seasons, while Jordan appears on that list 10 times.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

For the stat geeks. Comparing Kobe and Mike, not Lebron, but you get hte point.

 

Even the most biased of Kobe ball-massagers will concede that Jordan's overall efficiency puts Kobe's to shame. Now I do believe to some degree that Kobe might have a slightly more advanced skill-set. I can't deny that Kobe has a little more range on his outside shot (which leads to him being a slightly more explosive scorer). I've never bought the ball-handling argument. Yeah, Kobe might have a little more 'AND1' in his handle than Jordan did. But what does this really mean? Can he create space with his handle better than Jordan could? Can he consistently get to the basket with his handle the way Jordan could? Could he fly from one end of the court to the other within it seemed like a fraction of a second using his handle the way Jordan could? The answers to all of those questions are no, no and NO.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Jordan4life

[RME JICO]

Lebron can't even come up with his own pre-game ritual, he has to use Jordan's.

 

If you were born in the mid to late 80's or later, you can't truly understand how good Jordan was.

 

 

[Rowand44]

I dont think Scotty would have been considered a top 50 guy if he never played with Jordan.

That's a whole different argument but I completely disagree with that. As for this poll, Jordan. The end.

[Jordan4life_2007]

That's a whole different argument but I completely disagree with that. As for this poll, Jordan. The end.

 

This is tricky. While MJ was in no way responsible for Pippen's talent. I definitely think there is something to the belief (not to mention the fact Scottie has admitted this) that coming into the league he was young, dumb and didn't have much of a work ethic. Obviously being around Michael on an every day basis took care of all that. I'm pretty sure that's what people mean when they say Scottie never becomes the player he did without Michael.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Jordan4life

[ZoomSlowik]

I think you can also make the case that Scottie wouldn't have received anywhere near as much recognition without the 6 rings. Don't get me wrong, he was a fantastic all-around player, but he wasn't really a consistently dominant scorer (Caron Butler is a relatively close comparison on offense, though Scottie was a bit better from the field and distributed better. Defense is obviously a different story entirely.) and that could make it less likely for people to give him proper credit on a decent but not stellar team. Remember, Dominique Wilkins didn't make the NBA's 50 greatest players list and I would consider him roughly a push with Scottie as an overall player (better scorer, not the distributor/defender). Of course the counter-point to that is that leaving The Human Highlight Film off the original list was a gross oversight (Walton instead with his 3 good years while only playing 70 games once? Really?), but I digress.

Edited May 13, 2009 by ZoomSlowik

[DrunkBomber]

I think you can also make the case that Scottie wouldn't have received anywhere near as much recognition without the 6 rings. Don't get me wrong, he was a fantastic all-around player, but he wasn't really a consistently dominant scorer (Caron Butler is a relatively close comparison on offense, though Scottie was a bit better from the field and distributed better. Defense is obviously a different story entirely.) and that could make it less likely for people to give him proper credit on a decent but not stellar team. Remember, Dominique Wilkins didn't make the NBA's 50 greatest players list and I would consider him roughly a push with Scottie as an overall player (better scorer, not the distributor/defender). Of course the counter-point to that is that leaving The Human Highlight Film off the original list was a gross oversight (Walton instead with his 3 good years while only playing 70 games once? Really?), but I digress.

Its ridiculous to compare the ages of who accomplished what and when with guys that didnt go to college and guys who did. Its just a completely different scenario.

[ZoomSlowik]

Its ridiculous to compare the ages of who accomplished what and when with guys that didnt go to college and guys who did. Its just a completely different scenario.

 

Um, I think you quoted the wrong post.

[DrunkBomber]

Um, I think you quoted the wrong post.

I know, I just quoted the last one.

[Steve9347]

I know, I just quoted the last one.

It's as if you drunkenly bombed the thread.

[santo=dorf]

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Great video, catchy music.

 

Some of those moments are definately engraved in my head. The crossover on Bird, owning Manute Bol and Mutombo, the dunk on Ewing. I love the dunk on the missed FT. It's like time froze and Jordan was the only one active.