Manny Suspended 50 Games

[Balta1701]

Well I was going to guess that it was an erectile dysfunction drug because most likely it contains some sort of steroid to "get it up."

 

We will see what baseball says if he has a valid prescription.

You don't take a women's ED drug to get it up if you're a man.

 

Ever hear the warning in those commercials that women shouldn't handle the drugs? Same reasoning.

[fathom]

Have they? I didn't know that.

 

Yes, it's a very sad situation with regards to pro wrestlers, as it seems like a miracle if they make it past 50-55 years of age.

[Chisoxfn]

David Ortiz, age 21-26 with the Twins

 

58 homers in 1477 at-bats=1/25.5 AB's

 

age 27-33 with Red Sox

 

231 homers in 3259 at-bats=1/14 AB's

 

Pretty dramatic change...

 

I'm not 100% sold on Chipper Jones for the Hall of Fame quite yet, Vlad yes, Pujols until something like this comes out...but it would be a shame, especially the way he's been elevated to God-like status as the MLB icon, child with a disability, non-profit organizations and community/charity work, his Tebow-like Christian faith, etc.

 

It's one thing if A-Rod has gone down, but quite another if Pujols does, too. That might really damage baseball with this generation of fans...yes, baseball is resilient and got past the Black Sox, the world wars, gambling/Pete Rose, strikes, cocaine scandal in 80's, 1994, and it has always bounced back and always will (feel like the speech from Field of Dreams should be inserted here), but this really sucks.

I'm not saying one thing or another, but you can spin it many different ways.

 

He was also hampered with injuries most of his time in Minnesota and he was playing for an organization that tended to frown upon the hr's. I'm not saying the Twins didn't want Ortiz hitting 50Hr's a year, rather they look for more complete hitters and when he went to Boston he was entering his prime, was healthy, and was able to actually swing away and was allowed to drive the ball more. There were a lot of people around baseball for a couple years when Ortiz was with the Twins talking about how good he could be, but injuries led to him getting DFA'd and the Red Sox took a chance.

 

No one thought he'd be as good as he was, but people thought he had ability. Even Sammy, the guy hit for power well before he was roiding or at least well before his body was super huge.

[Flash Tizzle]

Yes, it's a very sad situation with regards to pro wrestlers, as it seems like a miracle if they make it past 50-55 years of age.

It's not only the past steroid use with some of these wrestlers. They're just terribly out of shape. I'm amazed every day that passes in which Hulk Hogan makes it out alive. He may lift daily, but he's also a good 60+ pounds overweight and tans incessantly. His skin resembles beef jerkey. Something is going to get him, soon. Not to mention his divorce and s*** of a son. He'll be dead within five years.

[fathom]

It's not only the past steroid use with some of these wrestlers. They're just terribly out of shape. I'm amazed every day that passes in which Hulk Hogan makes it out alive. He may lift daily, but he's also a good 60+ pounds overweight and tans incessantly. His skin resembles beef jerkey. Something is going to get him, soon. Not to mention his divorce and s*** of a son. He'll be dead within five years.

 

Hogan's immortal due to being a real American, you should know that.

Edited May 7, 2009 by fathom

[Balta1701]

I'm not saying one thing or another, but you can spin it many different ways.

 

He was also hampered with injuries most of his time in Minnesota and he was playing for an organization that tended to frown upon the hr's. I'm not saying the Twins didn't want Ortiz hitting 50Hr's a year, rather they look for more complete hitters and when he went to Boston he was entering his prime, was healthy, and was able to actually swing away and was allowed to drive the ball more. There were a lot of people around baseball for a couple years when Ortiz was with the Twins talking about how good he could be, but injuries led to him getting DFA'd and the Red Sox took a chance.

 

No one thought he'd be as good as he was, but people thought he had ability. Even Sammy, the guy hit for power well before he was roiding or at least well before his body was super huge.

Going to pull the Bill Simmons article on you for this one.

"But what about Trot Nixon and Bill Mueller?" my son says. "They missed a bunch of games every year with injuries, put on weight when they were skinny guys, peaked quickly and were never seen again. Same for Mark Bellhorn, right? That's suspicious."

 

"Well," I say, "their names never came up in anything, so that's not really fair ..."

 

"And Kevin Millar, he had a few big homer years, then his power numbers went way down once the testing started."

 

"That's true, but it doesn't prove anything ..."

 

"And Johnny Damon, he got bigger and started hitting for more power even though he was a singles hitter, right?"

 

"Well ..."

 

"And what about Big Papi?" he wonders. "Played for Minnesota, didn't hit for power, came to the Red Sox, turned into the best slugger in the league, and as soon as they cracked down on steroids, he stopped hitting homers again. And he was friends with all the other Dominican players who were linked to performance-enhancing drugs. What about him?"

 

Silence. Nobody says anything.

 

Finally, my dad steps in: "He had an inside-outside swing at Minnesota, when he came to Boston, we encouraged him to pull the ball, so ..."

 

"Come on, Gramps!" my son says. "That's dumb, and you know it."

 

We glance out to the field. Big Papi is one of Boston's coaches now. After he hit 54 homers in 2006, his career was over within four years. Now he's just a fat guy in his early 40s coaching first base. You would never guess this is the same guy who carried us in 2004, the guy who fueled the Greatest Comeback Ever, the guy who helped convince an entire fan base that, yes, we could believe.

[Chisoxfn]

He's a tricky case. The only middle infielder with more GG than Omar is Ozzie Smith and they're incredibly similar hitters only Omar never got the same pub for his game that Ozzie did. Only 5 position players have more gold gloves: IRod, Brooks, Smith, Mays and Clemente. That's some prestigious company. Only 15 players have more than 10 GG and the only guys not in or not getting in would be Keith Hernandez, perhaps IRod and we'll see what happens with Andruw Jones. So Omar would be the only non-drug user/probable user with 10+ gold gloves to not get into the HoF.

To me he's a hall of famer. The guy was easily one of the best two to ever play the position for a long period of time and that makes you a hall of famer, imo. Plus offensively he had some pretty productive years in Cleveland.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Have they? I didn't know that.

 

List of wrestlers who have died before the age of 50 since 1985

 

Chris Von Erich - 21

Mike Von Erich - 23

Louie Spiccoli - 27

Art Barr - 28

Gino Hernandez - 29

Jay Youngblood - 30

Rick McGraw - 30

Joey Marella - 30

Ed Gatner - 31

Buzz Sawyer - 32

Crash Holly - 32

Kerry Von Erich - 33

D.J. Peterson - 33

Eddie Gilbert - 33

The Renegade - 33

Chris Candido - 33

Test - 33

Adrian Adonis - 34

Gary Albright - 34

Bobby Duncum Jr. - 34

Owen Hart - 34

Yokozuna - 34

Big Dick Dudley - 34

Brian Pillman - 35

Marianna Komlos - 35

Pitbull #2 - 36

The Wall/Malice - 36

Emory Hale - 36

Leroy Brown - 38

Mark Curtis - 38

Eddie Guerrero - 38

John Kronus - 38

Davey Boy Smith - 39

Johnny Grunge - 39

Vivian Vachon - 40

Jeep Swenson - 40

Brady Boone - 40

Terry Gordy - 40

Bertha Faye - 40

Billy Joe Travis - 40

Chris Benoit - 40

Larry Cameron - 41

Rick Rude - 41

Randy Anderson - 41

Bruiser Brody - 42

Miss Elizabeth - 42

Big Boss Man - 42

Earthquake - 42

Mike Awesome - 42

Biff Wellington - 42

Brian Adams (Crush) - 43

Ray Candy - 43

Nancy Benoit (Woman) - 43

Dino Bravo - 44

Curt Hennig - 44

Bam Bam Bigelow - 45

Jerry Blackwell - 45

Junkyard Dog - 45

Hercules - 45

Andre the Giant - 46

Big John Studd - 46

Chris Adams - 46

Mike Davis - 46

Hawk - 46

Steve Dunn - 48

Cousin Junior - 48

Dick Murdoch - 49

Jumbo Tsuruta - 49

Rocco Rock - 49

Sherri Martel - 49

 

Not all on the list died of steroids, but there are quite a few that had heart attacks or other issues that have been attributed to being likely results of using steroids. I havent followed wrestling since I was maybe 12, but I know Owen Hart died of an fall, but I'm guessing he's the exception in that list.

 

I got it from this site if anyone wants to read more.

 

http://prowrestling.about.com/od/whatsreal...tlersdeaths.htm

Edited May 7, 2009 by ChiSox_Sonix

[The Ginger Kid]

To me he's a hall of famer. The guy was easily one of the best two to ever play the position for a long period of time and that makes you a hall of famer, imo. Plus offensively he had some pretty productive years in Cleveland.

I would be stunned if Omar isn't a first ballot HOF. I didn't even think it was a possibility that he wouldn't be.

[Hatchetman]

To me he's a hall of famer. The guy was easily one of the best two to ever play the position for a long period of time and that makes you a hall of famer, imo. Plus offensively he had some pretty productive years in Cleveland.

 

please don't dismiss the first 100 years of baseball. there were many great defensive shortstops. what are your opinions on marty marion, mark belanger, honus wagner?

[caulfield12]

I think Vizquel should be a Hall of Famer. Not sure about first-ballot, but maybe.

 

The other argument is how with all the focus on hitting homers and breaking records, how much more attention should rightly have been paid to Omar but he got lost at time in the shuffle playing for mid-market teams and also overshadowed at times by players like Thome, Belle, Roberto Alomar, etc.

 

Andruw Jones? That's a tough one...but I think a lot of depends on whether he ever becomes a regular again and puts up some more numbers. He's SUPPOSEDLY in his early 30's still, but there have to be some questions about him as well.

 

Roberto Alomar will get in, perhaps the first HOFer with AIDS? Or has that never been substantiated?

[fathom]

Roberto Alomar will get in, perhaps the first HOFer with AIDS? Or has that never been substantiated?

 

Seems like it's BS, as there was a picture of him taken the week after that came out in which he looked perfectly healthy.

[SoxFan562004]

It's not only the past steroid use with some of these wrestlers. They're just terribly out of shape. I'm amazed every day that passes in which Hulk Hogan makes it out alive. He may lift daily, but he's also a good 60+ pounds overweight and tans incessantly. His skin resembles beef jerkey. Something is going to get him, soon. Not to mention his divorce and s*** of a son. He'll be dead within five years.

It's also all the pain killers and recreational drugs

[caulfield12]

please don't dismiss the first 100 years of baseball. there were many great defensive shortstops. what are your opinions on marty marion, mark belanger, honus wagner?

 

 

Look how long it took for Bill Mazeroski...Frank White would be a similar player, although most would give an advantage to playing GG defense at SS over a second-baseman.

[caulfield12]

Seems like it's BS, as there was a picture of him taken the week after that came out in which he looked perfectly healthy.

 

The player who really didn't look well the last couple of years of his career was another former Padre, Benito Santiago.

 

I guess there are some questions surrounding how quickly and completely Alomar went from one of the best players (and fielders) in baseball history to "just hanging on." Ryne Sandberg also faded quickly in his 30's.

Edited May 7, 2009 by caulfield12

[Steve9347]

Then, Barry Bonds hit 73 home runs in a season, and that was like the turning point. We realized that things had gone too far. We blamed him for cheating and looked the other way with dozens of other guys who might have been doing the same thing. Brady Anderson hit 50 homers in 1996; we didn't care. Bret Boone had 141 RBIs in a season; we didn't care. Big Papi went from 10 homers to 41 in four seasons; we didn't care. Roger Clemens was washed up, but suddenly he could throw 98 miles per hour and win Cy Youngs again; we didn't care. Eric Gagne saved 84 straight games and threw 120 miles an hour; we didn't care. Good players started blowing out tendons nobody had ever heard of; we didn't care. Pitchers blew out elbow tendons and shoulder ligaments routinely; we didn't care. This was the deal. They cheated; we pretended they didn't. It's really hard to explain unless you were there.

[Balta1701]

I guess there are some questions surrounding how quickly and completely Alomar went from one of the best players (and fielders) in baseball history to "just hanging on." Ryne Sandberg also faded quickly in his 30's.

That's sort of what's supposed to happen in your mid to late 30's.

[ThunderBolt]

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if they were, both would have their reasons.

coughNookLogancough

[caulfield12]

Yeah, looking back at Sandberg's numbers, he held on pretty well into his late 30's.

 

He had two pretty lost seasons (due to injuries), but he did hit in the mid 20's for homers when he was 36, and only 12 when he was 37. That was his final season.

 

I guess the "prime" for a career was moved from 27-30 back by at least five years (or more) by the Steroids Era. What a mess!

 

 

Another question that came into my mind. You have JC Romero and Juan Rincon, two former Twins, involved in this scandal. It just made me think about Santana and Liriano. I'll just have to give both those guys the benefit of the doubt, and it's hard to say how much the fall-off is velocity for Liriano (and the torque on his slider) was due to injuries versus any possible P.E. drugs.

Edited May 7, 2009 by caulfield12

[Steve9347]

If you think about it it's really lame... I think griffey was clean... and if he was, those season's he was having in Seattle don't even pop up as a big deal given what some of these juiced freaks were doing.

 

96-2000 would be regarded as possibly the best 5-year run any hitter ever had.

 

Instead, Junior only hit 56 bombs in 1998, while Sammy (66) and Big Mac (70) made him look like a douchebag.

[ThunderBolt]

Yeah, looking back at Sandberg's numbers, he held on pretty well into his late 30's.

 

He had two pretty lost seasons (due to injuries), but he did hit in the mid 20's for homers when he was 36, and only 12 when he was 37. That was his final season.

 

I guess the "prime" for a career was moved from 27-30 back by at least five years (or more) by the Steroids Era. What a mess!

Don't forget the fabled "divorce."

[caulfield12]

Don't forget the fabled "divorce."

 

 

Wasn't that Dave Martinez (former White Sox RF not implicated yet in the scandal) who snagged Sandberg's wife?

[Steve9347]

It's crazy that Sosa will largely go unremembered... f***er broke the HR record *61 3 f***ing times!

 

Sammy f***ing Sosa

 

Not some legendary player.

 

Sammy f***ing Sosa

 

He of the career .878 OPS... 63+ bombs 3 times!

 

He hit 292 bombs in 5 f***ing seasons!

 

FIVE SEASONS

[Leonard Zelig]

It's crazy that Sosa will largely go unremembered... f***er broke the HR record *61 3 f***ing times!

 

Sammy f***ing Sosa

 

Not some legendary player.

 

Sammy f***ing Sosa

 

He of the career .878 OPS... 63+ bombs 3 times!

 

He hit 292 bombs in 5 f***ing seasons!

 

FIVE SEASONS

 

And never led the league.

[Middle Buffalo]

This is an awesome article by Bill Simmons today

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...mp;sportCat=mlb

That is a good article.

 

It kind of reads like he's had it chambered for the day when Manny or Papi tested positive - like the obits that are pre-written for big stars and come out within hours of their death. Long live the '04 Red Sox - paragons of good sportsmanship.