SoxFan562004 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 When asked about Thomas, Canseco said "I don't know, it was the steroid era." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (shipps @ May 7, 2009 -> 11:21 PM) Oh steve...you are in crazy mode today. I know... I think it's the sunlight because I just scored a corner office today... I'm ready to believe anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 7, 2009 -> 06:51 AM) My problem with your argument is that it's nothing we haven't heard before. Manny needs to come out and establish beyond a shadow of a doubt exactly what he was taking, why he was taking it, and get the league/union to confirm it before I'd even consider that option. For all we know, he's telling the truth, but at the same time he was loading up on some real juice and at the same time taking something on a doctor's orders so that if he ever tested positive he'd have an excuse. Actually, we really haven't heard it like this in baseball. Most of the other high-profile players have been proven to have been using steroids. Not something their doctor provided that is now banned because MLB went and banned everything carried in the GNC as an overreaction to the events of the past 5-10 years. Why is it that this happens in the NFL and no one blinks an eye? So now Manny is no longer the best hitter of his generation? I'm not buying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:49 AM) LMAO. The thing is there are a ton of guys who have never tested positive who cheated. Most likely several names that would shock us. Manny is a fraud of the highest proportions, it shouldn't shock anyone he took shortcuts. Statements like this at this point are just laughable to me. Could Manny be lying? Absolutely. But it is an entirely different situation than an A-Rod who admitted to steroid use. All we have on Manny, is that after all this time he finally failed a test. We don't know what the drug is yet, so it is very possible it could have been in a medication that was presecribed to him. I understand the culture of baseball and what the stigma surrounding this past generation of players is, but accusatory statements like this tainting his entire career accomplishments up until this point are way out of whack, IMO. What Manny should do, is release the name of the medication he was prescribed. That way, when the drug that caused the failed test is released, people can cross check it with what Manny said he took. Wouldn't prove anything, but it could certainly help him out in the court of public opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:46 AM) As strange as this may sound, I actually might buy into the doctor excuse. The reason is because Manny has no reason to cheat at this point. He has a $45M contract, he is almost done, he is a sure fire HoF'er, he has a ring, he is already regarded as one of the best right handed hitters of the generation...so whats the point? I can't believe Manny actually cares enough about his performance and how he's perceived to try and get an edge. Especially since up until now he has been "clean". I just feel if he was juicing, he would have been caught before, or at the very least would have stopped. Why wasnt he caught 2 years ago? Or last year? Why all of a sudden just right now? It just doesnt make sense to me, which is why I will wait to hear his official excuse in detail. The docor excuse was authored by Scott Boras. Read Manny's apology and then listen to Manny speak and tell me they are from the same person. Its spin city. Why wouldn't Manny appeal which is his right? He has every reason to cheat. A big year can make him a ton of money as he is on a 1 year contract with an option. He also has been known not to have the greatest work ethic in the world. PED's provide a shortcut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:52 AM) Didn't Canseco and Thomas play together on the Sox? If so, I think Canseco would have said something. As for Manny...not surprised at all which is a sad state for a baseball fan to be in. Not really. Canseco was only in Chicago for the 2001 season after Thomas went on the shelf for the year. They never actually played together, though I imagine Thomas was in the lockerroom every now and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:55 AM) Actually, we really haven't heard it like this in baseball. Most of the other high-profile players have been proven to have been using steroids. Not something their doctor provided that is now banned because MLB went and banned everything carried in the GNC as an overreaction to the events of the past 5-10 years. Why is it that this happens in the NFL and no one blinks an eye? So now Manny is no longer the best hitter of his generation? I'm not buying it. I don't think MLB overreacted to ban everything after the hit the steroid era gave them (and continues to give them). And the reason this happens in the NFL and nobody blinks an eye is NOBODY cares about records in football, it doesn't have nearly the tradition of baseball, and football is entirely based on giant freaks smashing into each other. Totally different game, although I agree cheating is still cheating no matter what and it's still very bad. Edited May 7, 2009 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:52 AM) Didn't Canseco and Thomas play together on the Sox? If so, I think Canseco would have said something. As for Manny...not surprised at all which is a sad state for a baseball fan to be in. Frank wasn't even with the team when Canseco joined, that's why they signed Canseco because Frank was hurt. Jose wasn't here for long, Canseco is a hell of a detective if he can be in clubhouse for a month or two and come away from it definitively knowing the cleanliness of all his teammates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:55 AM) Actually, we really haven't heard it like this in baseball. Most of the other high-profile players have been proven to have been using steroids. Not something their doctor provided that is now banned because MLB went and banned everything carried in the GNC as an overreaction to the events of the past 5-10 years. Why is it that this happens in the NFL and no one blinks an eye? So now Manny is no longer the best hitter of his generation? I'm not buying it. Because fans don't care about numbers and stats in football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 7, 2009 -> 05:56 AM) The docor excuse was authored by Scott Boras. Read Manny's apology and then listen to Manny speak and tell me they are from the same person. Its spin city. Why wouldn't Manny appeal which is his right? I'm not sure that MLB Players still have the right to an appeal for a PED suspension, I think that was a key part of getting Congress off their backs, anyone know more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:55 AM) Statements like this at this point are just laughable to me. Could Manny be lying? Absolutely. But it is an entirely different situation than an A-Rod who admitted to steroid use. All we have on Manny, is that after all this time he finally failed a test. We don't know what the drug is yet, so it is very possible it could have been in a medication that was presecribed to him. I understand the culture of baseball and what the stigma surrounding this past generation of players is, but accusatory statements like this tainting his entire career accomplishments up until this point are way out of whack, IMO. What Manny should do, is release the name of the medication he was prescribed. That way, when the drug that caused the failed test is released, people can cross check it with what Manny said he took. Wouldn't prove anything, but it could certainly help him out in the court of public opinion. Cry for Manny all you want. He's busted. Sorry, he's already lost in the court of public opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I really agree with Canseco on the point that MLB and the players union is skating on the PED issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:57 AM) Frank wasn't even with the team when Canseco joined, that's why they signed Canseco because Frank was hurt. Jose wasn't here for long, Canseco is a hell of a detective if he can be in clubhouse for a month or two and come away from it definitively knowing the cleanliness of all his teammates. He seems to know the cleanliness of a lot of players he didn't play with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:58 AM) I'm not sure that MLB Players still have the right to an appeal for a PED suspension, I think that was a key part of getting Congress off their backs, anyone know more? The espn.com article said he waived his right to appeal. The less info that gets out the better. Boras is orchestrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:56 AM) The docor excuse was authored by Scott Boras. Read Manny's apology and then listen to Manny speak and tell me they are from the same person. Its spin city. Why wouldn't Manny appeal which is his right? He has every reason to cheat. A big year can make him a ton of money as he is on a 1 year contract with an option. He also has been known not to have the greatest work ethic in the world. PED's provide a shortcut. I can't argue with most of this, but saying he isn't known to have the greatest work ethic in the world is simply false. He's notorious for being one of the first guys to the ballpark and spending hours in the batting cage. He is a lazy defensive player and baserunner at times, but his work ethic isn't something that can be questioned. That doesn't mean s*** though, since Roger Clemens is known for his work ethic too and he was also on the stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:55 AM) Actually, we really haven't heard it like this in baseball. Most of the other high-profile players have been proven to have been using steroids. Not something their doctor provided that is now banned because MLB went and banned everything carried in the GNC as an overreaction to the events of the past 5-10 years. Why is it that this happens in the NFL and no one blinks an eye? So now Manny is no longer the best hitter of his generation? I'm not buying it. If the NFL leaned as heavily on history, records and comparing players of different eras as baseball does then the NFL would be in bigger trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:58 AM) Cry for Manny all you want. He's busted. Sorry, he's already lost in the court of public opinion. Nice to see you speak for all of us. But i'm going to wait to hear a bit more about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (G&T @ May 7, 2009 -> 05:58 AM) He seems to know the cleanliness of a lot of players he didn't play with. That's because there weren't all that many big time distributors. Look at Radomski...he's one guy working for 1 team but he's supplying like 50 people. That, and Canseco earns more money for each name he comes up with, so if he's heard a rumor or sees a guy with his shirt off, he can defy the other guy to file a libel suit against him and prove he was clean (which is virtually impossible.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (G&T @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:58 AM) He seems to know the cleanliness of a lot of players he didn't play with. Canseco can forget a lot of things if you give him some money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 7, 2009 -> 05:59 AM) If the NFL leaned as heavily on history, records and comparing players of different eras as baseball does then the NFL would be in bigger trouble. The NFL will take it at some point. Just watch. Either people will start dying or someone ridiculously big (like a Brady/Manning/Favre) will get caught and they'll just have their pants down. Or someone will write a Canseco style book, whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:01 AM) The NFL will take it at some point. Just watch. Either people will start dying or someone ridiculously big (like a Brady/Manning/Favre) will get caught and they'll just have their pants down. Or someone will write a Canseco style book, whatever. The bolded is what is going to start happening eventually IMO, similar to wrestling (although I don't think it's THAT bad in the NFL). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ May 7, 2009 -> 05:59 AM) I can't argue with most of this, but saying he isn't known to have the greatest work ethic in the world is simply false. He's notorious for being one of the first guys to the ballpark and spending hours in the batting cage. He is a lazy defensive player and baserunner at times, but his work ethic isn't something that can be questioned. That doesn't mean s*** though, since Roger Clemens is known for his work ethic too and he was also on the stuff. The thing to remember about people's work ethics is that the steroids help with that. They enable you to work harder and longer in the weight room without having to give your body as much time to recover. We hear about b*tch t*ts's work ethic all the time, all the hours he put in at the gym, etc., ditto tetrahydrogestrinone's work ethic, always building up at the gym...they're able to do that in the first place because of the steroids, it's not just some side thing they're oding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 7, 2009 -> 09:00 AM) Canseco can forget a lot of things if you give him some money. So are you saying that Frank Thomas has paid off Canseco not to talk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:59 AM) I can't argue with most of this, but saying he isn't known to have the greatest work ethic in the world is simply false. He's notorious for being one of the first guys to the ballpark and spending hours in the batting cage. He is a lazy defensive player and baserunner at times, but his work ethic isn't something that can be questioned. That doesn't mean s*** though, since Roger Clemens is known for his work ethic too and he was also on the stuff. I'm gonna go with... no. He's refused to play at times, is lazy on defense and running the bases... his work ethic on the field and about playing on the field is as bad as I have seen. I can't comment on what time he gets to the park, I have no way of knowing that. I'm saying, if I were a Sawx fan, I'd be pissed at his lazy ass out there on the field. I pay your ridiculous salary, jackass, so at least make it look like you appreciate the job you wouldn't have it it weren't for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:00 AM) Nice to see you speak for all of us. But i'm going to wait to hear a bit more about it. I'm sorry your hero has been exposed, I'm sure its tough for you, but name one person who has been suspended for 50 games that hasn't lost in the court of public opinion. There have been several who never had a positive test that have lost. Manny is cooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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