Dick Allen Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Kirstie Alley put on 83 lbs. the last year. She wasn't juicing, he was grazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 7, 2009 -> 01:16 PM) I have trouble finding any world series championship team over the past 20 years or so that didn't have at least one highly questionable figure. As we were talking about it the other day, the 2005 White Sox team had to be the cleanest World Champs in 3 decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (kyyle23 @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:16 AM) I dont really buy into the picture test 100 percent. My Dad looked a hell of a lot bulkier and bigger when you look at his pictures from 18-20 and compare them to 35-40 Most people do. Hell if you compare me now to how I looked even 2 years ago you'd have to assume I'm juicing. The eye test is more than flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:14 AM) No, you're right and a few media members have come out and said as much. That they ignored the obvious signs during the 90's when they should have been reporting it. Gammons will simply take Manny's word for it: a prescription drug triggered the positive test, Manny's no juicer. cool, I'm glad that there's the self policing out there by the media, it really should be a bigger story IMO. That's what drives me crazy about it though, I have worked out and been in gyms for about 10 years, so the latter portion of the juice era and it was just openly discussed how MLB players were likely juicing and what specific juice they were using to get the specific results. It was right there and just ignored by so much of the media. I'm going to take the extreme position and if the HOF is going to punish players for steroid use they should punish some of the journalists who covered the game during that time and not honor them as quickly. I still think many, including Gammons, deserved to be honored, but let's not give them a complete free pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Hatchetman @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:14 AM) here's an old pic of thome http://badwax.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/...l-jim-thome.jpg I think you can look at the parents as well. Thome's dad is huge. Griffey's body has spread just like his father's. Frank Thomas is supposed to have a couple of 300 lbs. sisters. Edited May 7, 2009 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:18 AM) Most people do. Hell if you compare me now to how I looked even 2 years ago you'd have to assume I'm juicing. The eye test is more than flawed. me too, between 17 and 19 I dropped about 75 pounds and was skinny as hell, but over the last 10 years I've added good muscle. So if you see a pic of me at 19 I'm toothpick, now I have muscle and the most I've used is creatine (which probably was dirty back in the day, but that was a long time ago) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I'll say this about Thome...my best friend is very close to Thome's best friend in baseball (former pitcher). I have never heard one thing about him doing illegal stuff. All I heard was the usual "Bacon and Eggs" diet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt574 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:56 AM) The docor excuse was authored by Scott Boras. Read Manny's apology and then listen to Manny speak and tell me they are from the same person. Its spin city. Why wouldn't Manny appeal which is his right? He has every reason to cheat. A big year can make him a ton of money as he is on a 1 year contract with an option. He also has been known not to have the greatest work ethic in the world. PED's provide a shortcut. Manny is getting older. I can easily see a player turning to PEDs to try to extend his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) From the si.com article: Ramirez ranks 17th on the all-time home-run list with 533. Eight of those top 17 home run hitters played in what is commonly referred to as the Steroid Era. And six of those eight modern-day sluggers have been associated with performance-enhancing drugs: Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, Rafael Palmeiro, Rodriguez and Ramirez. The only modern sluggers to have escaped such a connection are Ken Griffey Jr., Frank Thomas and Jim Thome. Nothing we don't know but does go out of its way to mention the 3 White Sox related guys as being considered clean. I would love to have a webcam on Boras' office right now. All his lackeys must be working their asses off for angles to spin this. Edited May 7, 2009 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:18 AM) Most people do. Hell if you compare me now to how I looked even 2 years ago you'd have to assume I'm juicing. The eye test is more than flawed. It really is now, but when there was not testing and most guys were just using "common" steroids it could be used pretty evectively IMO. There's a certain muscle gain in the chest that is a decca tip-off, Alex Ochoa back in the day is one example of a guy that suddenly showed up with this type of gain, and a certain way muscles look since they're so blown up with fluid, ie the Giambi SI cover. However, now there are designer PEDs or smarter cycling, not guys just going crazy like they use to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Was Albert Belle's name ever tied into steroids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:32 AM) Was Albert Belle's name ever tied into steroids? I believe so, but I can't give you specifics. I know people said the hip injury he had could have been a tip off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ May 7, 2009 -> 09:33 AM) I believe so, but I can't give you specifics. I know people said the hip injury he had could have been a tip off. Not to mention the roid rages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I know Frank Thomas passes the eye test, and always has an out due to the football, but i'm very concerned that inevitably someone's going to go after him, or Griffey, or Thome. And we're all going to have to deal with the s***storm that this creates. Too often, we as White Sox fans, are able to remove ourselves from this as fans, i hope it stays this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:32 AM) Was Albert Belle's name ever tied into steroids? I think if he was able to continue playing there would have been questions and he wouldn't have answered them because he doesn't answer any questions. He was Corky before Sosa, but his twin brother was bigger than him. Edited May 7, 2009 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I posted this about 4 pages ago, but there was a flurry of posts and I think it's worth reposting... on AM 1000 Canseco was specifically asked about Frank Thomas and he said, paraphrased, "I can't say, it was the steroid era." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:34 AM) I know Frank Thomas passes the eye test, and always has an out due to the football, but i'm very concerned that inevitably someone's going to go after him, or Griffey, or Thome. And we're all going to have to deal with the s***storm that this creates. Too often, we as White Sox fans, are able to remove ourselves from this as fans, i hope it stays this way. He did put on about 45 pounds his first 2 years in MLB. If my wife wouldn't make healthy dinner, I could easily do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ May 7, 2009 -> 09:35 AM) I posted this about 4 pages ago, but there was a flurry of posts and I think it's worth reposting... on AM 1000 Canseco was specifically asked about Frank Thomas and he said, paraphrased, "I can't say, it was the steroid era." That means he has no clue, which honestly is the best anyone can expect from that era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 MWAHAHAHAHA. Ramirez comes off as an idiot, so I wouldn't put it past him to take medication from a doctor without first having his agent (or himself) check the banned substances list. His only hope of coming clean is to actually name the medication he took. Has he done that yet? Even if it's potentially embarrassing (such as for some new herpes medication), he has to put things in perspective -- either receive embarrassment from the medication, and it's accompanying condition, or have your entire career questioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:31 AM) It really is now, but when there was not testing and most guys were just using "common" steroids it could be used pretty evectively IMO. There's a certain muscle gain in the chest that is a decca tip-off, Alex Ochoa back in the day is one example of a guy that suddenly showed up with this type of gain, and a certain way muscles look since they're so blown up with fluid, ie the Giambi SI cover. However, now there are designer PEDs or smarter cycling, not guys just going crazy like they use to. Well that's different from what Fathom was talking about and I agree with you completely. The eye test from age 20 to age 35 is flawed and pretty much useless, now these guys who absolutely blow up over an offseason or short time span are a whole 'nother story. And very good point about the type of body change, when walking through a gym you can usually tell which guys are on a little something. Hell even back in high school it was pretty obvious which guys were getting a little outside help with their routine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 anyone who is familiar with meds have any idea what family of drugs this could have been in if it's true? Manny claims it wasn't a steroid, so something like a stimulant maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:37 AM) MWAHAHAHAHA. Ramirez comes off as an idiot, so I wouldn't put it past him to take medication from a doctor without first having his agent (or himself) check the banned substances list. His only hope of coming clean is to actually name the medication he took. Has he done that yet? Even if it's potentially embarrassing (such as for some new herpes medication), he has to put things in perspective -- either receive embarrassment from the medication, and it's accompanying condition, or have your entire career questioned. He will come out with it just as soon as Boras and the rest of his team can find enough info on the substance that can make Manny look as innocent as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:05 AM) He was the best player on two Red Sox teams who won World Championships for a franchise who hadn't previously won one since 1918. He worked PLENTY hard enough for that fanbase, and if they didn't like him "not looking like he appreciated his job", it's their own damn fault. If it doesn't bother you, hey, that's all fine and dandy. I'm just saying, some of us fans expect that the players whose careers exist because of us, should respect the game a little more. Manny doesn't do that, he's lazy on the field and about playing, so I have no sympathy for him getting into this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ May 7, 2009 -> 09:39 AM) anyone who is familiar with meds have any idea what family of drugs this could have been in if it's true? Manny claims it wasn't a steroid, so something like a stimulant maybe? Doesn't a stimulant bring a lower suspension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:34 AM) I know Frank Thomas passes the eye test, and always has an out due to the football, but i'm very concerned that inevitably someone's going to go after him, or Griffey, or Thome. And we're all going to have to deal with the s***storm that this creates. Too often, we as White Sox fans, are able to remove ourselves from this as fans, i hope it stays this way. It's not like the Sox haven't had their fair share of probable users over the past 8 years, hell a couple of fan favorites get thrown out there quite often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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