Manny Suspended 50 Games

[Balta1701]

One more point in my back-from-the-gym flurry of posts...Manny Ramirez had an incredible 2nd half last season. Most people wrote it off to him being motivated. His numbers surged, he hit like .400. There's another totally logical explanation for why his performance would surge like that; a cycle of doping.

[caulfield12]

Is it considered an actual "Masking agent"?

 

 

 

Nope, it was for HCG. (See detailed explanation above).

[Balta1701]

Nope, it was for HCG. (See detailed explanation above).

Ok, so here's the question then...is there any legitimate reason why a doctor would have proscribed this stuff for him?

[G&T]

Nope, it was for HCG. (See detailed explanation above).

 

where did that info come from?

[caulfield12]

ESPN....Quinn, writer for LA Times I think.

 

He's going to get into a really messy explanation of his private/sex life and/or there's a direct connection to coming off a steroid cycle, which is how HCG is normally perceived as being used in the performance-enhancement/"muscle" community.

 

In the court of public opinion, there's not going to be much recovery from this IMO.

Edited May 7, 2009 by caulfield12

[fathom]

One more point in my back-from-the-gym flurry of posts...Manny Ramirez had an incredible 2nd half last season. Most people wrote it off to him being motivated. His numbers surged, he hit like .400. There's another totally logical explanation for why his performance would surge like that; a cycle of doping.

 

Such as flipping your bat at the ball and hitting a 420 foot homer into a 20 MPH wind against the Cubs in Game 1?

[NorthSideSox72]

It was for HCG...there's pretty much no doubt in the performance-enhancing community the connection. The closer examination of the test results related from an elevated level of testosterone. There was never a positive test for steroids, simply that the information came out that he had been on HCG and that was an automatic violation of the list provided by MLB.

 

 

 

In a man HCG stimulates pro-duction of androgenic hormones (testosterone). For this reason athletes use injectable HCG to increase the testosterone produc-tion. HCG is often used in combination with anabolic/androgenic steroids during or after treatment. Since the body usually needs a certain amount of time to get its testoster-one production going again, the athlete, after discontinuing ste-roid compounds, experiences a difficult transition phase which often goes hand in hand with a considerable loss in both strength and muscle mass. Administering HCG directly after steroid treat-ment helps to reduce this condition because HCG increases the testosterone production in the testes very quickly and reliably. In the event of testicular atrophy caused by mega doses and very long periods of usage, HCG also helps to quickly bring the testes back to their original condition (size). Since occasional injections of HCG during steroid intake can avoid a testicular atrophy, many athletes use HCG for two to three weeks in the middle of their steroid treatment. It is often observed that during this time the athlete makes his best progress with respect to gains in both strength and muscle mass. Those who are on the juice all year round, who might suffer psychological consequences or who would perhaps risk the breakup of a relationship because of this should consider this drawback when taking HCG in regular in-tervals. A reduced libido and spermatogenesis due to steroids, in most cases, can be successfully cured by treatment with HCG.

 

 

Most athletes, however, use HCG at the end of a treatment in order to avoid a "crash," that is, to achieve the best possible transition into "natural training." A precondition, however, is that the steroid intake or dosage be reduced slowly and evenly before taking HCG. Although HCG causes a quick and significant increase of the endogenic plasma- testosterone level, unfortunately it is not a perfect remedy to prevent the loss of strength and mass at the end of a steroid treatment. Although HCG does stimulate endogenous testosterone production, it does not help in re-estab-lishing the normal hypothalamic/pituitary testicular axis. The hypothalamus and pituitary are still in a refractory state after prolonged steroid usage, and remain this way while HCG is being used, because the endogenous testosterone produced as a-result of the exogenous HCG represses the endogenous LH production. Once the HCG is discontinued, the athlete must still go through a re-adjustment period. This is merely delayed by the HCG use." For this reason experienced athletes often take Clomid and Clenbuterol following HCG intake or they immediately begin an-other steroid treatment. Some take HCG merely to get off the "steroids" for at least two to three weeks.

 

HCG package insert states clearly that HCG "has no known effect of fat mobilization, appetite or sense of hunger, or body fat distribution." It further states, "HCG has not been demonstrated to be effective adjunctive therapy in the treatment of obesity, it does not increase fat losses beyond that resulting from caloric restriction. 6000 I.U. of HCG in a single injection resulted in elevated testosterone levels for six days after the injection. At a dosage of 1500 I.U. the pharmatestosterone level increases by 250-300% (2.5-3fold) com-pared to the initial value. The athlete should inject one HCG ampule every 5 days. Since the testosterone level remains considerably elevated for several days, it is unnecessary to inject HCG more than once every 5 days. The effective dosage for ath-letes is usually 2000-5000 I.U. per injection and should-as al-ready mentioned-be injected every 5 days. HCG should only be taken for a few weeks. If HCG is taken by male athletes over many weeks and in high dosages, it is possible that the testes will respond poorly to a later HCG intake and a release of the body's own LH. This could result in a permanent inadequate gonadal function.

 

HCG can in part cause side effects similar to those of injectable testosterone. A higher testosterone production also goes hand in hand with an elevated estrogen level which could result in gynecomastia. This could manifest itself in a temporary growth of breasts or reinforce already existing breast growth in men. Farsighted athletes thus combine HCG with an antiestrogen. Male athletes also report more frequent erections and an increased sexual desire. In high doses it can cause acne vulgaris and the storing of minerals and water. The last point must especially be observed since the water retention which is possible through the use of HCG could give the muscle system a puffy and watery appear-ance. Athletes who have already increased their endogenous test-osterone level by taking Clomid and intend subsequently to take HCG could experience considerable water retention and distinct feminization symptoms (gynecomastia, tendency toward fat de-posits on the hips). This is due to the fact that high testosterone leads to a high conversion rate to estrogens. In very young ath-letes HCG, like anabolic steroids, can cause an early stunting of growth since it prematurely closes the epiphysial growth plates. Mood swings and high blood pressure can also be attributed to the intake of HCG.

 

HCG's form of administration is also unusual. The substance choriongonadotropin is a white powdery freeze-dried substance which is usually used as a compress. Each package, for each HCG ampule, includes another ampule with an injection solution containing isotonic sodium chloride. This liq-uid, after both ampules have been opened in a sterile manner, is injected into the HCG ampule and mixed with the dried substance. The solution is then ready for use and should be injected intra-muscularly. If only part of the substance is injected the residual solution should be stored in the refrigerator. It is not necessary to store the unmixed HCG in the refrigerator; however, it should be kept out of light and below a temperature of 25* C.

 

HCG is a relatively expensive compound. It costs approx. $36 -45 for 3 ampules of 5000 I.U.

Cite your sources, please.

 

[caulfield12]

However, two sources told ESPN's T.J. Quinn and Mark Fainaru-Wada that the drug used by Ramirez is HCG -- human chorionic gonadotropin. HCG is a women's fertility drug typically used by steroid users to restart their body's natural testosterone production as they come off a steroid cycle. It is similar to Clomid, the drug Bonds, Giambi and others used as clients of BALCO.

 

www.espn.com

Edited May 7, 2009 by caulfield12

[G&T]

Gammons defended Manny (based on the video on ESPN's website), and claims that the Red Sox do not believe he was doing it while on that team.

Gammons thoroughly believes this is not HGH related or steroids.

 

Suspiciously, the doctor he got it from was in Miami.

Edited May 7, 2009 by G&T

[caulfield12]

Cite your sources, please.

 

http://www.steroid.com/HCG.phtml

 

[Balta1701]

ESPN....Quinn, writer for LA Times I think.

 

He's going to get into a really messy explanation of his private/sex life and/or there's a direct connection to coming off a steroid cycle, which is how HCG is normally perceived as being used in the performance-enhancement/"muscle" community.

 

In the court of public opinion, there's not going to be much recovery from this IMO.

The other way to look at it...if this is what Manny tested positive for, he wasn't just an "I tried it once and realized what I was doing was wrong" kind of guy. He was a serious abuser who went through at least a full cycle and was in a position where he or his doctors knew exactly what he was doing well enough for them to have a schedule for how long he can stay on it and how to come down effectively.

[Middle Buffalo]

Is it considered an actual "Masking agent"?

I'm pretty sure Canseco was arrested for the same thing. From wikipedia: "On October 10, 2008, Canseco was detained by immigration officials at a San Diego border crossing as he tried to bring a fertility drug from Mexico. He stated the drug was to help with his hormone replacement therapy, needed due to his abuse of steroids."

 

 

[fathom]

The other way to look at it...if this is what Manny tested positive for, he wasn't just an "I tried it once and realized what I was doing was wrong" kind of guy. He was a serious abuser who went through at least a full cycle and was in a position where he or his doctors knew exactly what he was doing well enough for them to have a schedule for how long he can stay on it and how to come down effectively.

 

Exactly what I was thinking...he's likely been masking his use for years.

[caulfield12]

So which position players from the last 20 years are still going to make the HOF?

 

Griffey, Jr.

Thomas

Thome

Biggio

Bagwell??? (there have to be some questions about him too)

[caulfield12]

I'm pretty sure Canseco was arrested for the same thing. From wikipedia: "On October 10, 2008, Canseco was detained by immigration officials at a San Diego border crossing as he tried to bring a fertility drug from Mexico. He stated the drug was to help with his hormone replacement therapy, needed due to his abuse of steroids."

 

Jose Canseco HCG

Former Major League Baseball player Jose Canseco was detained at the Mexican border for more than nine hours on October 9, 2008, for attempting to smuggle human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) into the United States.1 HCG is a natural hormone used by anabolic steroid users.

 

Canseco was charged with one count of misdemeanor drug smuggling on October 14, 2008.2 3

 

[Chisoxfn]

Sexual enhancer? interesting. I still think its odd that a player, nowadays, would allow ANYTHING to be injected into his body without checking with the league. Which makes Manny either not-too-bright, or its a cover-up or lie of some kind. And as DA said, ED is a common side effect of some PED's. He's also refusing the appeal process.

 

Seems like we still don't have the whole picture. But at BEST, he was stupid, and there are multiple pieces of evidence to suggest it goes beyond that.

Ya, but ED is also a relatively common thing for people his age or at least I'm led to believe that given all of the commercials on TV.

[Balta1701]

Ya, but ED is also a relatively common thing for people his age or at least I'm led to believe that given all of the commercials on TV.

But the commercials also say that women shouldn't handle the pills for a reason. The hormones for each sex are completely different. The only reason for Manny to be taking a female's product is if he's coming down off a steroid cycle, as far as I can tell (anyone can correct me if they know more).

[Balta1701]

So which position players from the last 20 years are still going to make the HOF?

 

Griffey, Jr.

Thomas

Thome

Biggio

Bagwell??? (there have to be some questions about him too)

Captain Jetes.

Ichiro.

 

Maybe Pudge Rodriguez, he's in that gray area though.

[Chisoxfn]

Ya, I hadn't read it was a female pill. Didn't get that far in the thread. Thats really suspicious.

[NorthSideSox72]

Ya, but ED is also a relatively common thing for people his age or at least I'm led to believe that given all of the commercials on TV.

Well, we've since learned it was apparently a female fertility drug typically used to mask the aftereffects of steroids.

 

[Dick Allen]

However, two sources told ESPN's T.J. Quinn and Mark Fainaru-Wada that the drug used by Ramirez is HCG -- human chorionic gonadotropin. HCG is a women's fertility drug typically used by steroid users to restart their body's natural testosterone production as they come off a steroid cycle. It is similar to Clomid, the drug Bonds, Giambi and others used as clients of BALCO.

 

www.espn.com

I thought that just was off the top of your head.

[LittleHurt05]

So which position players from the last 20 years are still going to make the HOF?

 

Griffey, Jr.

Thomas

Thome

Biggio

Bagwell??? (there have to be some questions about him too)

 

Piazza will, although I am positive he was just as roided up as the rest of them.

 

You mention position players, with what happened with Clemens/Pettite, how many pitchers of the last 20 years can you really trust, other than Maddux?

[caulfield12]

Ya, I hadn't read it was a female pill. Didn't get that far in the thread. Thats really suspicious.

 

Administering HCG directly after steroid treat-ment helps to reduce this condition because HCG increases the testosterone production in the testes very quickly and reliably. In the event of testicular atrophy caused by mega doses and very long periods of usage, HCG also helps to quickly bring the testes back to their original condition (size). Since occasional injections of HCG during steroid intake can avoid a testicular atrophy, many athletes use HCG for two to three weeks in the middle of their steroid treatment. It is often observed that during this time the athlete makes his best progress with respect to gains in both strength and muscle mass. Those who are on the juice all year round, who might suffer psychological consequences or who would perhaps risk the breakup of a relationship because of this should consider this drawback when taking HCG in regular in-tervals. A reduced libido and spermatogenesis due to steroids, in most cases, can be successfully cured by treatment with HCG.

 

 

Basic summary...

 

[caulfield12]

Piazza will, although I am positive he was just as roided up as the rest of them.

 

You mention position players, with what happened with Clemens/Pettite, how many pitchers of the last 20 years can you really trust, other than Maddux?

 

 

Glavine

Smoltz

Maddux

Randy Johnson

Pedro Martinez

Trevor Hoffman

Mussina???

 

Longer range, Johan Santana and Roy Halladay, but they have quite a ways to go.

Edited May 7, 2009 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Trevor Hoffman

You can't possibly include Hoffman in a list and not note Rivera.