JorgeFabregas Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 9, 2009 -> 09:26 AM) http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fieldi...lumn=zoneRating Ramirez has only made two errors...I think everyone is just down on him because of his offensive struggles. He certainly, with the exception of one game, hasn't hurt the White Sox at that position. He's in the top half in fielding percentage and #2 in zone rating. I'll just say he has been at least average for the position and maybe above average for an MLB SS. The one thing I've noticed is that he has a hesitation about diving for balls that's alarming. I'll also add that defensive ratings don't mean much to me until they're bettered, but to move someone who has played 40 games there 8 years ago....I need to see a lot more, because Nix was very rough the other night at 3B. ESPN's zone ratings have been messed up all season. Zone Rating is a percentage (fielding x percent of the balls hit to your position's zone). The shortstops are not fielding 6% of the balls hit to their zone--the percentages should be in the 80s and 90s. Edited May 9, 2009 by JorgeFabregas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 "Alexei's going to be our shortstop for a long time -- as long as he wants to be," Guillen said. "When we were in Kansas City, I had to make a move because I had to pinch-hit for somebody, and [coach Joey Cora] made a suggestion to put him in center field, and I said no. Why exactly, what has he shown that he should be the long term answer. If he hits like s*** for the year, is he still the long term answer. Hopefully Beckham gets a fair shake when he comes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 9, 2009 -> 03:38 AM) Alexei needs to start hitting again and quick. People are starting to beat down the door behind him. I think that is the issue-his hitting-not the position he is playing. He can go to CF and still not hit so what's the magic bullet here? He is doing fine defensively at SS from what I can see he just isn't hitting I should have added though that he has shown at times he can adjust but for some reason falls back Edited May 9, 2009 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 QUOTE (Heads22 @ May 8, 2009 -> 11:39 PM) If we insist on playing Nix, it makes too much sense to have him and Getz at the top. I have to admit, I have been surprised with how much I like nix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 9, 2009 -> 01:49 PM) I have to admit, I have been surprised with how much I like nix. Thats why we have to trade for Laynce Nix!!!!!!!!! Edited May 9, 2009 by BearSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) Yes, next time I won't give a stat that one of your own Sox announcers/personnel gave, because obviously they are incorrect, too. Someone mentioned that statistic and I didn't take the time to look it up, so please have me shot. I am pretty sure nobody else has EVER said anything that's incorrect around here, too, as we are highly-compensated to be professional SoxTalk posters and aren't allowed to make any mistakes. Sure, we all do. Though not at the alarming rate such as yourself. Half the things Bill Melton says are wrong, I hope you call up Beltin' Bill Melton as well....I'm sure you do. Of course, the overarching point is totally lost upon you. Do not flatter yourself. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggreg...amp;season=2009 Yay, we're now 12th in the AL in runs scored per game. Our offense thanks you for defending it. Sure as hell the White Sox fans aren't defending it, because only 21,000 came out to see a Friday night home game against one of the most exciting teams in the majors in the Rangers, a team that came into the night with 50 homers to our 30. We'll be lucky to get 2,000,000 in attendance this year if the team continues to play like this, giving KW further reason (and Dick Allen more ammunition) to cut payroll again next season down to the 2005 level of $65 million. Fields would of course be the logical choice to move to left. He was far from bad out in left contrary to the 2 errors you will likely mention. Historically third baseman are great to transit to a corner outfield due to there arm strength. Fields was really, really, really bad in LF. It's not always about errors, because Pods is horrible too, and when you take atrocious "Great Circle" routes to the ball and miss it completely or it bounces off your head, many times the official scorekeeper will give a hit....or when he goes in and it goes over his head, or vice versa, like Lonnie Skates Smith. (By the way, Josh is now on pace to make 29 errors at 3B...not to mention the balls he doesn't get to). I do not care about the ball bouncing off of his head. There is a sox nation myth that podsednik could not field well in left field during his time with us. I hate to break it to everyone but his ability to get to a ball was above average in both 2005 and 2007... slightly below average during 2006. His throwing ability is entirely another story, as he fights year in year out for honors of worst arm of the year. You will disagree, however. I will not argue the point about fields because when you believe something as fact there is no way that it's being changed anytime soon. To summarize, there's no way that Josh Fields will be our LF in the future. It will be either Viciedo, Shelby or someone we've never even thought about (trade, FA acquisition). Like anyone said this. It was theorized to finished for nix to finish out the year in left, then i suggested fields, as he would be the better option of the two, hands down. Almost every 3B who has been moved to LF was moved because they were even more horrible at 3B, like Carlos Lee...Fields has "average" arm strength for the position, and you don't need to have as good an arm in LF as RF. That would usually be why a player is moved from one position to another. Glad you figured it out. On your second point. Whether fields arm at third base is ''average'' does not mean a thing in correlation to left field. I will be the first to admit it was limited play (still not as limited as some people who think a player is a savior or garbage after two games) but he was on pace to put up impressive arm numbers. Arm numbers on average vary pretty minimally when a player is given any type of signifigant time, and are also generally a good candidate to extrapolate. Left field is the second least demanding position on the field while third base is the fourth least demanding. 1B - LF - RF - 3B - CF - 2B - SS - C From 2003 to 2006 all players with 500 chances or more... Position Average Chances 1st Base 816 2nd Base 1164 3rd Base 1112 Shortstop 1399 Left Field 942 Center Field 1232 Right Field 963 The chance numbers the past two seasons are also very, very similar to these, though i cannot find the think with the numbers, even though i have the link somewhere. I once more would like to make it clear i do not believe he should be moved from third this season, if we can help it. He needs the rest of this entire season at third before his defensive abilities can fully be evaluated. So far, he is rather disappointing, and a position change may eventually be what benefits this team most. Actually, Carlos Quentin is playing much better defensively in LF than he did last year. It's not so clear-cut that they will automatically move him to RF, and Viciedo has the best arm of anyone in the organization, he might be just as good in RF (or better) if he lost a little more weight, as he can run better than most people think, although not quite as well as Brandon Allen. Viciedo is two full seasons away at least. Quentin is here now Viciedo has everything in the world to prove. Quentin has already proved he is a more than capable major league player. Our future simply cannot be based off an if, but, and maybe, etc. ================================================================================ Ramirez has only made two errors...I think everyone is just down on him because of his offensive struggles. He certainly, with the exception of one game, hasn't hurt the White Sox at that position. He's in the top half in fielding percentage and #2 in zone rating. I'll just say he has been at least average for the position and maybe above average for an MLB SS. The one thing I've noticed is that he has a hesitation about diving for balls that's alarming. I'll also add that defensive ratings don't mean much to me until they're bettered, but to move someone who has played 40 games there 8 years ago....I need to see a lot more, because Nix was very rough the other night at 3B. You cite zone rating by itself, therein lies the problem. Uzr until this day is far and away the best way metric around. This is a very informative article for anyone with limited knowledge on the defensive metrics out there. http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/...the-evaluators/ Also, though in it's infancy, gamday is starting to be used to track defense. This has a good chance of some day in the near future trumping uzr, though only time will tell. More at the link. http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/...-metric-part-1/ Edited May 9, 2009 by qwerty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) We don't know for sure what we'll get out of Quentin, Ramirez, Danks or Floyd this year, either. We certainly can't say that Viciedo will take 2-3 years or 2-3 months based on five weeks in AA ball, for the same reason they haven't promoted Aaron Poreda, Beckham to play SS or Flowers/Allen to DH. KW would look a bit silly signing a player for 4 years only, with the thought behind it that he would only be able to get 2 years out of him. At worst, KW expected Viciedo to contribute something in 2010, but there are many (including KW) who probably felt he could give the team something this year with his bat. He's still leading Birmingham in RBI's, so at least he's been pretty clutch in terms of getting sacrifice flies and making contact most times with RISP. By the way, I cited his 2 errors as well...so, suffice it to say...he's also in the top 1/2 of SS's in terms in terms of fielding percentage as well. Edited May 9, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Ramirez has gotta stop trying to pull the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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