Pilots complain about low pay

[Texsox]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...news&sub=AR

Under questioning from the board, Mary Finnigan, Colgan's vice president for administration, reported that Rebecca Shaw, co-pilot of the crash plane, drew an annual salary of $16,200 a year. The board also said that Shaw once held a second job in coffee shop while working as a pilot for the airline in Norfolk, Va.

 

 

 

The safety board also delved into the long commute for regional airline pilots. According to the NTSB, 93 of the Colgan's 137 Newark-based pilots identified themselves as commuters, including 49 of them who commute greater than 400 miles and 29 who live more than 1,000 miles away.

 

Both pilots were based at Colgan's Newark, N.J., office but lived in other cities and commuted to work by catching planes. Oftentimes, pilots commute to work by using privileges afforded to them by informal agreements among airlines that allow non-working pilots to sit in the jumpseat, or an open seat, when available and at little to no cost.

 

Shaw had an especially long, cross-country commute. On the day before the accident, Shaw left Seattle on an overnight FedEx flight to the East Coast. She arrived in Newark at 6:30 a.m. after a changeover in Memphis.

 

Without fair salaries, how are these regional airlines going to survive? Geez, imagine paying a pilot over $20,000 per year. Crazy

[NorthSideSox72]

I think part of the solution here should be fewer pilots on some flights. The way technology is now, planes can 99% fly themselves. Small planes have one pilot instead of two, larger ones two instead of three. Pay instead into technology for better handling the planes from the ground, and the pilot becomes essentially the backup plan. Pay those fewer pilots better.

 

[G&T]

I think part of the solution here should be fewer pilots on some flights. The way technology is now, planes can 99% fly themselves. Small planes have one pilot instead of two, larger ones two instead of three. Pay instead into technology for better handling the planes from the ground, and the pilot becomes essentially the backup plan. Pay those fewer pilots better.

 

Can planes land themselves? I think there are two pilots in case one gets sick or something happens during the flight and can't fly.

[NorthSideSox72]

Can planes land themselves? I think there are two pilots in case one gets sick or something happens during the flight and can't fly.

That is why there are two pilots, yes (though some smaller commercial craft have just one). Yes, modern commercial aircraft can land themselves, thought he technology to do so reliably is not on all aircraft. I don't know all the details. But right now, you essentially have a pilot, and backup pilot. I'm saying, have the planes fly by wire, and have a backup pilot.

 

[G&T]

That is why there are two pilots, yes (though some smaller commercial craft have just one). Yes, modern commercial aircraft can land themselves, thought he technology to do so reliably is not on all aircraft. I don't know all the details. But right now, you essentially have a pilot, and backup pilot. I'm saying, have the planes fly by wire, and have a backup pilot.

 

Yeah I thought I heard that on Mythbusters but I wasn't sure if it was true.

[StrangeSox]

Sad report on the situation. The article is a little sensationalist, but you can read the transcript on the side.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/20...rash-ntsb_N.htm

 

We definitely have the controls algorithms to fly planes all by themselves, but I don't know that the public would ever be comfortable with that. I wouldn't be. Captains for major airlines make good money ($150k or so), but a lot of pilots make next to nothing. That's the reason I didn't consider it for a career.

Edited May 13, 2009 by StrangeSox

[Rex Kickass]

That is why there are two pilots, yes (though some smaller commercial craft have just one). Yes, modern commercial aircraft can land themselves, thought he technology to do so reliably is not on all aircraft. I don't know all the details. But right now, you essentially have a pilot, and backup pilot. I'm saying, have the planes fly by wire, and have a backup pilot.

 

Many jet airliners do have autoland, but there needs to be a human on board to make it work. Fly by wire is just as dangerous, because who's to say that those data packets wouldn't be hacked?

 

Pilots are right to complain about low pay, and its something where a little regulation could end up fixing a bad seniority system... do that and the pay issue would probably mostly right itself.

[dasox24]

I can't even imagine a salary of $16,000. You can barely live off that. These pilots are highly trained and they're making less than a lot of people without high school degrees. I just think pilots might be a little more important.

[NorthSideSox72]

Many jet airliners do have autoland, but there needs to be a human on board to make it work. Fly by wire is just as dangerous, because who's to say that those data packets wouldn't be hacked?

 

Pilots are right to complain about low pay, and its something where a little regulation could end up fixing a bad seniority system... do that and the pay issue would probably mostly right itself.

Which is why A pilot as A backup makes sense. Two is overkill at this point technologically, IMO.

 

 

Seperate thought on this... I went through ground school in high school, and even put in 4 hours (dual) on single engine aircraft. I've done wing stalls before (which is what this plane went through). One of the very first things you learn as a pilot is how to handle a wing (aerodynamic) stall. The warnings sound, the stick shakes - the plane makes it quite clear you are about to stall. You then do two things - nose down, and increase throttle, in that order.

 

In the report, they have said that the pilot actually pulled UP on the stick when the stick shaker went off. And, there is ZERO chance this pilot hadn't done stalls in some aircraft at some point in his/her training. Therefore, this whole thing is actually quite simple - the pilot panicked and f***ed up.

 

Now, there is a question there of whether or not more training would help - maybe, I don't know. But its not as if this difference between regional and larger airlines the media keeps harping on is really relevant to the crash. Pilots have all the same training requirements for the same aircraft types.

 

And the salary thing? That is another issue. But certainly, if the regionals pay less, they will get less experienced pilots. You get what you pay for.

 

 

[Texsox]

It is not just they employ pilots with less experience, the economics cause them to employ pilots that can't live near their base, sleep in lounges instead of a hotel room, moonlight to pay the rent, etc. Even the least experienced pilot for a commercial airline has a fair amount of experience.

[Rex Kickass]

Given that they were assigned to fly to Buffalo with neither pilot having had any experience dealing with icing as can be heard on the cockpit voice recorder literally minutes prior to the crash, I'd say training was a huge factor in this pilot error.