Is Josh Fields a bust?

[justBLAZE]

I'm not gonna state my opinion on Walker; however, Josh was doing fine and folks started complaining about his lack of power.

 

He changed his stance/approach, trying to lift everything now and hes doing terrible at this point.

[BearSox]

I mentioned this in the other thread, but I'll mention it in here.

 

Josh looked much improved today. He still looks lost at the plate, but his approach was much better. He actually turned on a fastball, which was robbed on a great play by Rolen, and that was nice to see. He was also making contact with the ball.

[NorthSideSox72]

I mentioned this in the other thread, but I'll mention it in here.

 

Josh looked much improved today. He still looks lost at the plate, but his approach was much better. He actually turned on a fastball, which was robbed on a great play by Rolen, and that was nice to see. He was also making contact with the ball.

Yeah, I was saying a couple days ago, the fact that he started looking really lost up there appeared to me to be a good sign. It means he was making adjustments. People were way too quick to write him off, thinking that was the hitter he had become.

 

I don't know how effective he'll be able to be in the end, but he wasn't going to stay completely lost like that forever.

 

[Texsox]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

He hasn't been given these kinds of guys to work with. Its like asking a chef to go into McDonald's kitchen and making something gourmet. It was very interesting to hear Hawk and Stone talk about Cito Gaston and Gene Tenace yesterday. Cito has always been known as a hitting guru. They mentioned that they are very rare because they mention to their hitters actually trying to hit a home run.

 

The White Sox have pretty much had power offense for a while now. I don't know why a lot of people think the home run is bad. I think the lowest homer totals they have had in the last 10 years or so was 2007, they lost 90 games, and this year they are a little behind in the HR dept. and look at their record. If they can't acquire high obp guys who can run, they have to hit homers to score. It was absolutely ridiculous to think this was going to be a good offensive team if guys like Dewayne Wise and Brent Lillibridge were leading off. Blaming Walker is ludicrous. It would be like firing Don Cooper if Mike MacDougal was the closer and he blew another game.

 

So he is only able to help guys to hit more home runs? I believe that is what has been said. Guys come here and become better sluggers, but they never seem to raise their averages.

[Dick Allen]

So he is only able to help guys to hit more home runs? I believe that is what has been said. Guys come here and become better sluggers, but they never seem to raise their averages.

Who has left the Sox and gone on to become a better hitter elsewhere? It may be the players and not the coach. I'm sure it is. I don't know Greg Walker, but how does he get slammed for a guy hitting .230 and Cooper gets no grief for Floyd's 7.71 ERA and inability to hold a runner on?

Edited May 18, 2009 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

Who has left the Sox and gone on to become a better hitter elsewhere? It may be the players and not the coach. I'm sure it is. I don't know Greg Walker, but how does he get slammed for a guy hitting .230 and Cooper gets no grief for Floyd's 7.71 ERA and inability to hold a runner on?

Well, Rowand did for a while it seemed. Willie Harris had some hot streaks after he left.

[justBLAZE]

Well, Rowand did for a while it seemed. Willie Harris had some hot streaks after he left.

 

I was somehow thinking about it looking at Griffey. Now I realize Griffey was here for two months and he probably doesn't have to take any advice from Walker and what not.. I'd like to see however number of AB he had for us with production and same number of AB he has for Seattle and production.

[caulfield12]

Impossible to judge Griffey because he was very much NOT healthy last year. In fact, he probably won't ever be the same again.

 

You can look at Swisher, but Swisher never used Walker as a hitting coach. Crede, it's hard to say because of his back problems. Cabrera and Ryan Sweeney are both struggling mightily in Oakland. C. Carter and Aaron Cunningham never spent much time with Walker. Jeremy Reed, same thing. Chris Young has had the very same problems in Arizona he had in our minor league system.

 

Rowand had a very good 2004 season...he hasn't been a consistent hitter from season to season...and then it's very difficult to compare numbers put up in the NL versus the AL, or put up on non-contending teams.

 

Miguel Olivo has basically been the same hitter his entire career. He struggled so much in Seattle (after leaving Walker), they basically gave up on him. Joe Borchard never did anything after we traded him for Thornton. Carl Everett's career faded completely in 2006.

 

For instance, Jon Rauch, Kip Wells, Rocky Biddle (as a Montreal closer), Josh Fogg and many others would not have had the same success in Chicago they had elsewhere, for a number of reasons.

[Princess Dye]

Why yes, yes he is a bust.

[caulfield12]

Josh Fields can't really be defined as a bust until we put him back down at the 6-7-8 spot in the batting order and let him go back to what he was doing in 2007 instead of trying to have a stance like Carlos Quentin or driving the ball to RF like a #2/contact hitter. If he doesn't put up 15 homers and strikes out 150+ times, that's when you can have the conversation again. He could be a similar player to Michael Cuddyer (or Crede, or Rowand), who took a good 2-3 years to really establish himself as a regular at the major league level.

 

His defense has been a little better than many suspected, and his OBP is actually better than Getz...he just needs to go back to what worked for him in spring training and 2007. Easier said than done.

Edited May 19, 2009 by caulfield12

[SoxAce]

Josh Fields can't really be defined as a bust until we put him back down at the 6-7-8 spot in the batting order and let him go back to what he was doing in 2007 instead of trying to have a stance like Carlos Quentin or driving the ball to RF like a #2/contact hitter.

 

^^^^^^^

 

This. They have really f***ed with his whole stance/approach (not to mention his mind) the last couple seasons it's crazy.

[NorthSideSox72]

Josh Fields can't really be defined as a bust until we put him back down at the 6-7-8 spot in the batting order and let him go back to what he was doing in 2007 instead of trying to have a stance like Carlos Quentin or driving the ball to RF like a #2/contact hitter. If he doesn't put up 15 homers and strikes out 150+ times, that's when you can have the conversation again. He could be a similar player to Michael Cuddyer (or Crede, or Rowand), who took a good 2-3 years to really establish himself as a regular at the major league level.

 

His defense has been a little better than many suspected, and his OBP is actually better than Getz...he just needs to go back to what worked for him in spring training and 2007. Easier said than done.

Actually, having him go up the middle and to RF is something he SHOULD be doing. Combine that with a less time-consuming bat load and he'll then be able to catch up to heat better. When he was doing this early in the season, it worked for a bit.

 

 

[SI1020]

Joe Crede had a less pronounced hitch in his swing that he was able to work on with some success. Fields will never be the fielder Crede was for the Sox, and even if he does improve and salvage his career he will K a lot. On balance I'd say he's probably going to wash out. For a long time I believed he would make it, but now I no longer do. Why do the Sox draft so poorly and even more so why aren't they able to work with players like Fields who could with some coaching be productive players? This organization has a number of problems and we are looking at a long dry spell unless certain things improve soon.

[caulfield12]

Actually, having him go up the middle and to RF is something he SHOULD be doing. Combine that with a less time-consuming bat load and he'll then be able to catch up to heat better. When he was doing this early in the season, it worked for a bit.

 

 

We could afford him to be a 10-12 homer guy on the 2000, 2005 or 2006 teams.

 

Not this year, especially if Quentin continues to struggle and/or is injured. Not on a team last in the AL in runs produced and one of the three worst teams in the majors in terms of runs scored and runs allowed.

 

Hitting the ball to the right side, when it's dictated....that's great. Konerko has done it consistently and some are complaining about his lack of power, but I'd rather see Konerko's approach than Carlos'.

 

The fact of the matter is that you can't strike out at his rate unless you're putting up 30-40 homers per year OR playing great defense. Josh is doing neither.

 

It's pretty clear he has a hitch in his swing (just watch all of his hand movement on the replays, especially from the side) and he's not staying on the ball with his eyes until the point of contact, like Nix did with that low curveball yesterday.

 

He's, as Harrelson says, a 54-55 foot hitter who's really gotten "in between," but he lacks Alexei's hand speed...which is why there is more hope for Ramirez to pull out of it than Lillibridge, Fields or Anderson in the long run.

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

We could afford him to be a 10-12 homer guy on the 2000, 2005 or 2006 teams.

 

Not this year, especially if Quentin continues to struggle and/or is injured. Not on a team last in the AL in runs produced and one of the three worst teams in the majors in terms of runs scored and runs allowed.

 

Hitting the ball to the right side, when it's dictated....that's great. Konerko has done it consistently and some are complaining about his lack of power, but I'd rather see Konerko's approach than Carlos'.

 

The fact of the matter is that you can't strike out at his rate unless you're putting up 30-40 homers per year OR playing great defense. Josh is doing neither.

 

It's pretty clear he has a hitch in his swing (just watch all of his hand movement on the replays, especially from the side) and he's not staying on the ball with his eyes until the point of contact, like Nix did with that low curveball yesterday.

 

He's, as Harrelson says, a 54-55 foot hitter who's really gotten "in between," but he lacks Alexei's hand speed...which is why there is more hope for Ramirez to pull out of it than Lillibridge, Fields or Anderson in the long run.

The bolded really makes no sense. So, you can K a lot, if you hit homers, or play defense, but not if you have a high average or OBP?

 

Simply put, saying he can't be successful going middle and right is ridiculous. If that is what he needs to do to improve his hitting, then add power as time goes on, that is what he should do.

 

[Dick Allen]

The bolded really makes no sense. So, you can K a lot, if you hit homers, or play defense, but not if you have a high average or OBP?

 

Simply put, saying he can't be successful going middle and right is ridiculous. If that is what he needs to do to improve his hitting, then add power as time goes on, that is what he should do.

I agree with him. You can't strike out close to 200 times and hit 15 homers with a low OBP and an average at best glove. Maybe if he starts going to RF he will cut down his K rate, but how many guys strike out as much as he does but don't also get on base a lot? Not too many. Although I have never been a fan of his, I personally think he is Ron Kittle Jr. at the plate, it is too early to write him off now. I wish they would let Betemit, even with a bad glove play against some RHP and let Fields play when his chances of success are higher. I think eventually he won't be considered a main piece in the White Sox core, but set him up a little better for success and maybe something clicks. When he walks up to the plate and sees 2 homers on the scoreboard under his name, its not doing his game any good. I'm sure he thought he would be a 30-40 homer guy.

[NorthSideSox72]

I agree with him. You can't strike out close to 200 times and hit 15 homers with a low OBP and an average at best glove. Maybe if he starts going to RF he will cut down his K rate, but how many guys strike out as much as he does but don't also get on base a lot? Not too many. Although I have never been a fan of his, I personally think he is Ron Kittle Jr. at the plate, it is too early to write him off now. I wish they would let Betemit, even with a bad glove play against some RHP and let Fields play when his chances of success are higher. I think eventually he won't be considered a main piece in the White Sox core, but set him up a little better for success and maybe something clicks. When he walks up to the plate and sees 2 homers on the scoreboard under his name, its not doing his game any good. I'm sure he thought he would be a 30-40 homer guy.

I agree with that.

 

I disagree with what he said, which is not what you are saying here.

 

[Dick Allen]

I agree with that.

 

I disagree with what he said, which is not what you are saying here.

Strikeouts are a lot more tolerable if you bring something extraordinary to the table. Thome, Dunn, they bring 40 homers and a ton of walks. Granderson brings a lot of speed, a leadoff guy, some power, muti-faceted offense and plus defense. Unless he's doing something else high above average, the strikeouts at the current pace will make him an insurance salesman. The guy putting up the same numbers with the same defense with 75 strikeouts is a lot more valuable.

[NorthSideSox72]

Strikeouts are a lot more tolerable if you bring something extraordinary to the table. Thome, Dunn, they bring 40 homers and a ton of walks. Granderson brings a lot of speed, a leadoff guy, some power, muti-faceted offense and plus defense. Unless he's doing something else high above average, the strikeouts at the current pace will make him an insurance salesman. The guy putting up the same numbers with the same defense with 75 strikeouts is a lot more valuable.

I agree.

 

[caulfield12]

The bolded really makes no sense. So, you can K a lot, if you hit homers, or play defense, but not if you have a high average or OBP?

 

Simply put, saying he can't be successful going middle and right is ridiculous. If that is what he needs to do to improve his hitting, then add power as time goes on, that is what he should do.

 

 

Josh is never going to be a high average hitter. Just like Crede, who has a similar profile. If Josh was hitting .280-.300 with a .350 OBP, that would be one thing. But he's not.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/battin...ull&minpa=0

 

Top 20 in K's in the majors today.

 

The only ones who are close to as low in OBP as Josh are Sizemore, Schafer and BJ Upton.

 

C. Davis, Pena, Mark Reynolds, Howard, Dunn, Sizemore, Fielder, Weeks, Swisher, Thome and Branyan are all noted XB and HR hitters.

 

Jordan Schafer is a rookie who will be sent down soon if he continues to struggle. But still considered a bright prospect. Upton and David Wright have track records, not unlike Kemp and Jhonny Peralta. Corey Hart, same thing.

 

If there's a comparison, it would probably be to LaRoche, but I think he has six homers. And Fred Lewis gives you speed and defense.

 

 

So, in summary, gladly Josh...hit .280 to .300 with 350 OBP and you can go for the rest of the season without hitting another homer...

 

 

 

 

[qwerty]

This is the best place i figured i could put this since fields has the second most at-bats out of anyone that qualifies...

 

The white sox have the distinct honor of being the only team in baseball to have two players with more strikeouts than total bases in 50 or more AB so far

#Brent Lillibridge, CHW - 68 AB, 13 TB, 21 SO

# Edwin Encarnacion, CIN - 63 AB, 12 TB, 19 SO

# Jordan Schafer, ATL - 129 AB, 41 TB, 49 SO

# B.J. Upton, TBR - 141 AB, 38 TB, 44 SO

# Cameron Maybin, FLA - 84 AB, 26 TB, 31 SO

# Josh Fields, CHW - 133 AB, 41 TB, 43 SO

# Travis Ishikawa, SFG - 91 AB, 26 TB, 29 SO

# Ramon Vazquez, PIT - 59 AB, 13 TB, 15 SO

# Jeff Mathis, LAA - 58 AB, 16 TB, 18 SO

# Kelly Shoppach, CLE - 66 AB, 26 TB, 27 SO

# Rob Johnson, SEA - 63 AB, 18 TB, 19 SO

[ThunderBolt]

Josh Fields has gotten the message: his job is on the line. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,2978214.story

[TitoMB345]

FTA:

 

"He has struck out in 31.4 percent of his at-bats. "

 

L.O.L.

[BearSox]

I've seen rusty gates that swing faster than Josh's bat.

[Wanne]

Emphatic YES!!!!! The dude is wound tighter than a drum. If anybody got a chance to see him up close and personal in ST...he looked that way then too. He has ZERO confidence right now.