Question for Greg Walker haters...

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

In all seriousness, if you could, would you trade a pretty good prospect or two to the Rangers for Rudy Jaramillo? And if so, what type of package would be the breaking point? And if you were the Rangers, what would it take to let go of your hitting coach?

 

Serious question here folks. I'm wondering.

[Texsox]

Naw.

[Dick Allen]

Supposedly Jaramillo changed Josh Hamilton's stroke this year. The results haven't been encouraging.

[BearSox]

From what I've heard, Hamilton changed his stroke on his own omission after he had that rough 2nd half last year.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Small sample size on Hamilton and he was playing hurt. Small sample size on Andruw Jones as well, but he is killing the ball.

[CanOfCorn]

I start a thread in my head called Fire Rudy Jaramillo, mentally post each and every crap-ass response, spit them out on a manual typewriter, bring the paper and typewriter to The Cell, set the paper a-blaze at the old Comiskey home plate marker, take the typewriter, bring it to the game and bury it deep underneath Lillibridge's locker.

 

Then I go have a Pabst.

 

 

[qwerty]

From what I've heard, Hamilton changed his stroke on his own omission after he had that rough 2nd half last year.

 

He did. Hamilton got rid of his toe tap at the beginning of his swing, roughly ten days into the season hamilton went to jarimillo to help him get back his old swing.

 

Oops.

[BearSox]

He did. Hamilton got rid of his toe tap at the beginning of his swing, roughly ten days into the season hamilton went to jarimillo to help him get back his old swing.

 

Oops.

Yep, I still remember seeing him for the first time this seeing and not realizing it was him until they said his name. It's all part of the learning process for him. Sadly, instead of already having gone through this, all those years of drug abuse set him back.

Edited May 15, 2009 by BearSox

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

I give more credit for the Rangers hitting to that joke of a ballpark than Jaramillo.

[greg775]

I'd love to see a candid interview with Oz on what exactly a pitching coach does and how much he used on in his career.

Ozzie was a free swinger who I would think used a hitting coach to toss him pitches for extra hitting and that's it. Why do people think players listen to hitting coaches?? You think Ortiz is listening to a hitting coach despite the fact he's yet to hit a home run this year??

Why do people put so much emphasis on hitting coaches?? It's a tired cliche to blame the hitting coach or the pitching coach.

I would think if any hitting coach deserves credit or blame it's the one who gets these guys when they are right out of high school/college in rookie ball.

[elrockinMT]

Bring back Walt Hriniak

[caulfield12]

I don't think we even need a hitting coach.

 

We need a team psychologist more, because improving the thinking of Floyd and Contreras would help more than anything a hitting coach could do.

 

I think you could take any of the moderators here and put them with the 2006 White Sox team and there wouldn't have been any difference in terms of offensive output...just like you could take a mod and make them coach of the Fab Five Michigan or even the UNLV teams earlier and there wouldn't be anything more than a negligible difference in the final results.

Edited May 15, 2009 by caulfield12

[Reddy]

I don't think we even need a hitting coach.

 

We need a team psychologist more, because improving the thinking of Floyd and Contreras would help more than anything a hitting coach could do.

 

I think you could take any of the moderators here and put them with the 2006 White Sox team and there wouldn't have been any difference in terms of offensive output...just like you could take a mod and make them coach of the Fab Five Michigan or even the UNLV teams earlier and there wouldn't be anything more than a negligible difference in the final results.

this is close to one of the most ridiculous posts i've ever read.

[fathom]

I'd love to see a candid interview with Oz on what exactly a pitching coach does and how much he used on in his career.

Ozzie was a free swinger who I would think used a hitting coach to toss him pitches for extra hitting and that's it. Why do people think players listen to hitting coaches?? You think Ortiz is listening to a hitting coach despite the fact he's yet to hit a home run this year??

Why do people put so much emphasis on hitting coaches?? It's a tired cliche to blame the hitting coach or the pitching coach.

I would think if any hitting coach deserves credit or blame it's the one who gets these guys when they are right out of high school/college in rookie ball.

 

Who cares what Ozzie did, he was not a good hitter. Maybe it's not Greg Walker's fault...but he sure isn't doing anything that's working. Maybe they just need another point of view.

[CWSOX45]

In all seriousness, if you could, would you trade a pretty good prospect or two to the Rangers for Rudy Jaramillo? And if so, what type of package would be the breaking point? And if you were the Rangers, what would it take to let go of your hitting coach?

 

Serious question here folks. I'm wondering.

 

Hell yes. I don't know about trading a prospect for him though. I'd even go as far as trying to hire several of their minor league hitting coaches away from them, particularly in AAA and AA. The reason?

 

All of these coaches and meet with each other during spring training, they adapt the same drills and teach the same things throughout the entire organization.

 

Greg Walker needs to go. Over the past three years our players go up to the plate without a plan, and look foolish. It just hasn't been this group of hitters either, it's been other players that are no longer with the White Sox.

 

Tonight is a perfect example in all honesty, there are AAA players that would go up to the plate with a better approach then what I've seen tonight.

 

You can call me crazy if you want, but it's the truth.

[Hawkfan]

haha I love the first post, "serious question here folks" - Funny guy

[caulfield12]

this is close to one of the most ridiculous posts i've ever read.

 

Obviously I was being sarcastic. Sorry, should have put it in teal.

 

Rongey said on the postgame show that Walker's basic premise was that the mechanical changes in the hitters happened during the offseason and that it was VERY VERY difficult to make any adjustments with the hitters during the course of the season. He cited the examples of Thome and Konerko last year...that Walker knew what was wrong with their swings, hands, balance, stride, etc., but that it was a year-long battle to get them both out of bad mechanics. Hawk's favorite phrase, "muscle memory," also comes to mind.

 

Essentially, the argument was that Tiger Woods can watch someone with a horrible gold swing and tell him points A, B, C of what is wrong with the swing mechanics, but that it's very hard to correct them, because it's almost like starting over from scratch and totally building up your swing from ZERO, deconstructing a swing.

 

For instance, you watch Alexei and Konerko tonight, they had swings (homer and single to RF) where they had almost no extra hand movement or hitch in their swings. Simple to see and diagnose, hard to "fine tune" during the season, when baseball is 90% mental and confidence.

Edited May 16, 2009 by caulfield12

[fathom]

Rongey said on the postgame show that Walker's basic premise was that the mechanical changes in the hitters happened during the offseason and that it was VERY VERY difficult to make any adjustments with the hitters during the course of the season. He cited the examples of Thome and Konerko last year...that Walker knew what was wrong with their swings, hands, balance, stride, etc., but that it was a yearlong battle to get them out of bad mechanics.

 

It's time for a change! I don't care if Walker is the greatest hitting coach in the world....he's not working well with our current group of players. He's been around most of these guys for so long. However, if they're going to bring in Gary Ward, then it won't matter. It's all about getting a different point of view for these players.

[greg775]

If the Sox want to change hitting coaches that'd be fine with me. It'd also be fine if they keep him. I blame the hitters, not the coach.

 

This has nothing to do with Walker, but our hitters ...

Once again watching another game tonight I see several Royals and Oriole hitters whacking hits to the opposite field. It's something I'm not used to seeing when I see the Sox on TV. I can't believe so many players feel they need to pull everything. s***, Jose Guillen goes to right field and dribbles a two run single through a big hole between first and second, one our big boppers would not be willing to do. What a concept, hit the ball through a hole with two strikes.

 

Ozzie's response via mlb.com

 

A lot of people blame Greg Walker," Guillen said. "But this guy is in here every day, 12 o'clock, 1 o'clock, working with those guys. The last thing Walker is doing is being in this clubhouse. He's out there working with the players, giving them information -- out there trying to figure it out."

 

Many questions have arisen from the fact that the White Sox have combined to hit just .230 while averaging 3.2 runs over their past 12 games. But Guillen was adamant that Walker should not be included in those questions.

 

"We just don't get it done," Guillen said. "Don't blame Walk. All the fans out there, if they know about hitting, don't blame Walk. If they're going to blame Walk, then blame me for giving Walk the job.

 

"Greg Walker works his tail off every day to get those guys better."

 

 

Edited May 16, 2009 by greg775

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I'm not really one way or the other on this issue, but if we're going to replace Walker it should either be around the trade deadline if we fall out of it, in which case we'll be looking to move our veteran sluggers, or it should be over the offseason when those guys are gone.

 

Dye IMO is probably not coming back unless both PK and Thome are gone, both because of his salary and the fact that I think they want more defensively out of RF in the future and would view him as a DH/part time OF. I could see that as a possibility though because the Sox like to have at least one veteran there all the time, no matter if it is a rebuild or not. Thome OTOH is almost certainly gone unless he and the Sox tear up this contract and re-work a new deal during the season (is that even possible?) to get away from the arbitration situation, because if arb is an issue there's no way he's coming back. Then there''s Paulie, and if he has a good year I think he'll be worth something decent *if* we either eat a few million on his 2010 contract (probably unlikely) or if we take back say a reliever/bench player on a small bad contract with negative value.

 

No matter how this season turns out, we're going to in all likelihood have even more of a youth movement after this season, so if we're going to bring in another hitting coach we should do it then so that way we have most of our young hitters all starting from basically the same place.

 

And, if we do fall out of it and become sellers at the deadline, I would in that case much, much rather make a change then instead of waiting until after the season. That way if the guy we bring in works, the hitters have more time with him and they will also have the opportunity to end the year on a high note under the new coach, which could change the way they will prepare themselves over the offseason in a positive manner. Another reason I'd rather go the trade deadline replacement route is because if the new guy doesn't work out, we can make a change over the offseason and start anew in Spring Training.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Obviously I was being sarcastic. Sorry, should have put it in teal.

 

Rongey said on the postgame show that Walker's basic premise was that the mechanical changes in the hitters happened during the offseason and that it was VERY VERY difficult to make any adjustments with the hitters during the course of the season. He cited the examples of Thome and Konerko last year...that Walker knew what was wrong with their swings, hands, balance, stride, etc., but that it was a year-long battle to get them both out of bad mechanics. Hawk's favorite phrase, "muscle memory," also comes to mind.

 

Essentially, the argument was that Tiger Woods can watch someone with a horrible gold swing and tell him points A, B, C of what is wrong with the swing mechanics, but that it's very hard to correct them, because it's almost like starting over from scratch and totally building up your swing from ZERO, deconstructing a swing.

 

For instance, you watch Alexei and Konerko tonight, they had swings (homer and single to RF) where they had almost no extra hand movement or hitch in their swings. Simple to see and diagnose, hard to "fine tune" during the season, when baseball is 90% mental and confidence.

Rongey has kind of a point, but if you've heard his show once you already know his stance on everything. The only time the show is fresh is during a rain delay when he's not speaking.

 

The Tiger Woods argument - and BTW I'm on the fence with this whole issue as it is - applies to almost everything in life in general. Why fire the manager at Wal-Mart because his employees are slacking all the time? Tiger Woods could walk in there and tell every Wal-Mart employee exactly what they are doing wrong, how to change it, etc. but ultimately it is up to the Wal-Mart employees themselves to stock the shelves instead of hanging out in the parking lot in their cars smoking pot and listening to Cypress Hill. Take just about any situation you want and the Tiger Woods argument applies, and in many ways makes total sense. However, it certainly doesn't account for how a guy like Phil Garner can come to a s***ty Houston Astros team (s***ty not in terms of talent, but performance) and take them all the way to the WS.

 

The truth is that reality is not very accepting of the Tiger Woods argument, which is why people of all walks of life get hired and fired all the time. People in charge who don't do the heavy lifting get blamed when they shouldn't get blamed and get praised when they shouldn't get praised. And, you *never* see the Tiger Woods argument used as anything but a philosophically minded excuse. For example, no intelligent Sox fan would ever say that any old pitching coach can come in and replace Don Cooper. If Walk is a great hitting coach just like Coop is a great pitching coach, and yet if results that appear under Coop do not appear under Walk, then something is wrong. You can put it on the players all you want, but in a society that needs a power structure for everything, Walk's neck has to constantly be out there.

 

And again, I'm not taking sides here, just trying to rip up another one of Rongey's dumbass arguments. I know he has to toe the line and that is expected, but it's really annoying at times, especially when he believes he's 100% correct and asserts his dumb opinions by acting like a cocksucker to his poor callers who are obviously crushed by Sox losses.

[The Ginger Kid]

at what point do we start holding the players accountable? do we fire Coop for another turd laid by Danks?