Texsox Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I really miss PA at times like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 18, 2009 -> 05:25 PM) Interesting. Never got that impression from him, but in this case I'll defer. He's one of the wave of New World Order types, who at one time in the 80's labeled themselves realists, but as time went on and 9/11 happened, suddenly went off their rocker and wanted a holy war. Cheney is another one, though Cheney's transformation was even more extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 18, 2009 -> 07:34 PM) He's one of the wave of New World Order types, who at one time in the 80's labeled themselves realists, but as time went on and 9/11 happened, suddenly went off their rocker and wanted a holy war. Cheney is another one, though Cheney's transformation was even more extreme. What behavior have you seen from Rumsfeld that makes you believe he is "off his rocker"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (Texsox @ May 18, 2009 -> 07:45 PM) What behavior have you seen from Rumsfeld that makes you believe he is "off his rocker"? I'll again say that you should read some of the books detailing what went on in the Bush Administration. I bring up the Woodward books because he has a history of being well respected for his reporting, and was accepted with open arms by that administration at first (until the first couple books were published). Rumsfeld was borderline delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (Texsox @ May 18, 2009 -> 05:45 PM) What behavior have you seen from Rumsfeld that makes you believe he is "off his rocker"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 18, 2009 -> 08:47 PM) So everyone who believes in a deity is "off their rocker"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (Texsox @ May 18, 2009 -> 06:54 PM) So everyone who believes in a deity is "off their rocker"? Just the ones who believe that the deity is on their side and will grant them victory over the non-believers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 It's a shame that people of faith receive so little respect here. Their ideas are dismissed on a regular basis. They are told they should not have opinions on much of anything from alcohol laws, to what is shown on TV, to basically anything that has to do with public policy. With that, I shall leave. Sorry of I have offended anyone with my "off the rocker" faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (Texsox @ May 18, 2009 -> 06:59 PM) It's a shame that people of faith receive so little respect here. Their ideas are dismissed on a regular basis. They are told they should not have opinions on much of anything from alcohol laws, to what is shown on TV, to basically anything that has to do with public policy. With that, I shall leave. Sorry of I have offended anyone with my "off the rocker" faith. Is that really how you interpreted any of this? Really? Is that how you're judging these documents? I just can't fathom how you look at those memos and think "this is an excellent declaration of faith by the people in charge". If that's how you're seeing them then on this issue, I'm not going to be able to get around the disconnect, because I simply can't see things your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 18, 2009 -> 08:58 PM) Just the ones who believe that the deity is on their side and will grant them victory over the non-believers. So the vast majority of the planet... That has to make you sleep good at night... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 18, 2009 -> 09:08 PM) So the vast majority of the planet... That has to make you sleep good at night... So majorities are right on any issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 If we want to discuss this as a matter of faith then let me adopt a different tact here. Does anyone expect that at some point we will see a memo released with a picture of some of the Abu Ghraib photos on it and the headline: "Remember those who are in prison, as though you were in prison with them; those who are being tortured, as though you yourselves were being tortured. --Hebrews 13:3".If not, please discuss why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 18, 2009 -> 09:11 PM) So majorities are right on any issue? That's what I was told during the entire election cycle, were the Democrats lying to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeFabregas Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 (edited) No, of course not, because American Christianity is, on the whole, wrapped up in a sort of Americanism. There are some who draw the connection, however. For instance, Will Willimon, a Methodist bishop in Alabama: http://www.sendspace.com/file/mgrz8u Edit: I just noticed that you saw a memo. Well, you are obviously quite right on that. Kurt Vonnegut made a similar observation . For some reason, the most vocal Christians among us never mention the Beatitudes. But, often with tears in their eyes, they demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings. And of course that's Moses, not Jesus. I haven't heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, be posted anywhere. "Blessed are the merciful" in a courtroom? "Blessed are the peacemakers" in the Pentagon? Give me a break! Obviously those in government are most interested in empire, order, productivity, etc. Not the stuff of the Gospels. They'll use the language when it suits them. Edited May 19, 2009 by JorgeFabregas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 18, 2009 -> 09:12 PM) If we want to discuss this as a matter of faith then let me adopt a different tact here. Does anyone expect that at some point we will see a memo released with a picture of some of the Abu Ghraib photos on it and the headline: If not, please discuss why not. Nice cherry pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (Texsox @ May 18, 2009 -> 08:59 PM) It's a shame that people of faith receive so little respect here. Their ideas are dismissed on a regular basis. They are told they should not have opinions on much of anything from alcohol laws, to what is shown on TV, to basically anything that has to do with public policy. With that, I shall leave. Sorry of I have offended anyone with my "off the rocker" faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (Texsox @ May 18, 2009 -> 07:45 PM) What behavior have you seen from Rumsfeld that makes you believe he is "off his rocker"? I didn't even know Rumsfeld was religious but reading the WHOLE GQ article is a start in proving to me that Rumsfeld is a complete egomaniac, if not a certifiable one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 It's a shame that people of faith receive so little respect here. Their ideas are dismissed on a regular basis. They are told they should not have opinions on much of anything from alcohol laws, to what is shown on TV, to basically anything that has to do with public policy. With that, I shall leave. Sorry of I have offended anyone with my "off the rocker" faith. I doubt it. If you won't be back in this thread you will show up in another with the same strawman arguments. Why exactly is intolerance a bad thing? We don't allow people to roam the streets nude, but I don't see too many exhibitionists screaming "intolerance!!!" "Y'all just ignorant to not let me shove my thoughts or believes down your collective throats." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 18, 2009 -> 10:11 PM) So majorities are right on any issue? Because that's what he said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 I can't believe this argument's gone on for 7 pages and kept being more than what it is. It's a stupid, politically tone deaf thing to do that's really unhelpful when you're trying to avoid the perception that you're engaged in some kind of religious war or clash of civilizations. If you want to dismiss the strategic importance of that, fine, but that just tells me that you don't get it, either, and probably won't, and should do some research on Islamic militants' propaganda (I'd prefer if my government leaders didn't throw fastballs down the fat part of the plate, which the previous administration did routinely for a few years before they realized it). It's nothing more and nothing less than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ May 19, 2009 -> 07:54 AM) I can't believe this argument's gone on for 7 pages and kept being more than what it is. It's a stupid, politically tone deaf thing to do that's really unhelpful when you're trying to avoid the perception that you're engaged in some kind of religious war or clash of civilizations. If you want to dismiss the strategic importance of that, fine, but that just tells me that you don't get it, either, and probably won't, and should do some research on Islamic militants' propaganda (I'd prefer if my government leaders didn't throw fastballs down the fat part of the plate, which the previous administration did routinely for a few years before they realized it). It's nothing more and nothing less than that. Thank you. No one here was bashing religion of faith, at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 19, 2009 -> 10:03 AM) Thank you. No one here was bashing religion of faith, at all. I wasn't. I just wanted one fact clear and that was it wasn't unconstitutional. Ignorant? Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ May 18, 2009 -> 07:59 PM) Nice cherry pick. Oh, so you have a problem when I cherry pick Biblical quotes to make a point, but you have no problem with the Secretary of Defense doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ May 19, 2009 -> 10:20 AM) I wasn't. I just wanted one fact clear and that was it wasn't unconstitutional. Ignorant? Maybe. fair enough. i'm not 100% convinced on the subject, but I'll concede it in that we both agree it's ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 19, 2009 -> 11:14 AM) Oh, so you have a problem when I cherry pick Biblical quotes to make a point, but you have no problem with the Secretary of Defense doing so. I never said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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