Thats it, I'm sick and tired of this s***

[Chisoxfn]

I need to wait at least two more weeks before throwing in the towel, but I'm close, especially because there are so many shortcomings on this team - even playing fundamental baseball seems out of reach. If this division wasn't so weak it would be much easier to concede now, as most seem to be doing. I'm not blaming you, but it just seems too early. And if Danks and Floyd can stop getting behind in the count, they will be much improved. Add Colon and Richard...things could get interesting. We still have a pretty solid pen.

Notice I prefixed my entire post with the exact same thing and added the June 1 was my time table and I wasn't going to throw anything way for at least another 10 days regardless. But if this team is still mired in a slump 10 days from now, I am 100% on board. Good post though!

[elrockinMT]

If you get anyone to take Konerko's contract off our hands, you get rid of him. He's playing well this year, but in this market, he's severely overpaid. I like your idea of promoting Poreda, and a good spot could be as a lefty set-up man in case Jenks is traded (and Thornton moves to the closing spot). I wonder if a team like the Dodgers could be interested in Dotel or Linebrink, as their set-up men stink.

 

The Mets might be in the market for an expereinced !Bman even though they have a AAA ballplayer they are all hyped up about.

 

It might very well be appropriate to satrt thinking of just going with rookies from our farm clubs, but more than 50% me is still thinking we can turn this around. We need healthy ballplayers. I am still baffled why (other than Booras was the agent) the Sox didn't keep Crede even with cocnerns about his back, but we took on Colo and kept Contreras and Fields was coming off knee surgery. I think it was just the Sox management/ownership going cheap on us

[Princess Dye]

To be honest, KW didnt make the moves to put us in a good place EITHER last year or this year.

 

 

Last year a few things bounced his way. Led to a lot of confidence coming from him for this year, and now it's all crashing down and he'll get all upset and what not. As if this werent of his own making.

 

 

 

 

All things considered though I'm glad we stowed the cash away, as long as we're really going to spend it once some of the dinos come off the books.

[Texsox]

Are you thinking something like

 

The Chicago White Sox received:

 

• Keith Foulke, right-handed pitcher
• Bob Howry, right-handed pitcher
• Lorenzo Barcelo, right-handed pitcher
• Ken Vining, left-handed pitcher
• Mike Caruso, shortstop
• Brian Manning

The San Francisco Giants received:

 

• Wilson Alvarez, left-handed pitcher
• Danny Darwin, right-handed pitcher
• Roberto Hernández, right-handed pitcher

[TheBigHurt]

Sox offer Konerko and Dotel for Figgins

 

[Chisoxfn]

Say Figgins walks as a FA, Sox get very good draft pick compensation for Figgins, salary savings (Konerko next season) and thus it is a very valuable trade. If they sign him, at least they have a leadoff hitter. We can argue and discuss how over-rated Figgins is, but he adds value. Bottom line, I don't mind that deal at all. If the Angels would rather have Linebrink I'd do it too to be honest, because I value the 2 picks we'd get for Figgins and to me two high draft picks and financial savings is worth moving a relatively high priced and aging (yet productive) reliever and an aging slugger.

 

I don't know if the Angels do it, but it might not be a bad move for them. Maybe they prefer Dye and in that case I'd ask for a bit more, but again, getting Figgins is pretty valuable because he's the type of guy the Sox could afford offering arbitration too and would probably get top flight compensation for if he walked. If Dye was involved though, I'd probably ask for something in addition to Figgins as he is a bit more valuable. Say you move Konerko in a seperate deal, than it might not be that bad to ask for Morales, whose been playing pretty darn well in Anaheim.

 

I would do Dye/Dotel/Linebrink (in fact, I'd move all three) in a large deal with the Angels for Figgins and Morales. Morales slides into the offense and gives you a younger bat thats MLB ready. Figgins gives you a leadoff hitter or compensation depending on the route you take. Angels get much needed power and more importantly a major boost to there bullpen. Again, I'd prefer to keep one of the relievers and package him elsewhere but it wouldn't be the worse deal in the world.

 

Plus I think the Sox have a few nice looking relief arms that would be best suited getting there feet wet this year, ie, Poreda, Link, Omogrosso (maybe he starts?).

[GoAlexei!]

Unfortunately, I also agree, June 1st or blow er up. The sox have never been a great fundamental team, however this just awful. I don't know about any of you but I have consitantly been frustrated with our inability to move a baserunner off of second. The main problem I see with this team is the outfield. If we trade Dye (who I would prefer to extend 2 years and plug at DH) we would be running out a two player combination of wise, anderson,lilli, nix. We have no one in the system that is close to stepping up at this point. It's early, but does anyone have any idea which outfielders are on the final year?

[Balta1701]

It's early, but does anyone have any idea which outfielders are on the final year?

http://2010.mlbfreeagents.com/positions/outfielders.php

[LVSoxFan]

I'll keep it short and vote yes to blow it up.

 

Keep Buehrle and I'm not done on Floyd or Danks, but I'm not afraid to lose if we're fielding the young ones to see what we have.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

We gut this team and we're not winning anything anytime soon. We keep the veterans involved and at least there's a chance of an edge-of-your-seat rollercoaster ride over the next 2 seasons, which is at least better than nothing.

 

I would only support completely gutting this team *if and only if* we take the $$$ savings - because moving most of our veteran players is going to only net us savings, not actually talented future pieces - and use that savings to build up a top 3 farm system in baseball, *and then* use those prospects to both build and acquire a new core. I don't want the Kids Can Play horses*** anymore. Build up a cache, then trade it in. But that still means lots of losing in the meantime - lots and lots and lots of losing, because we have ZERO starting pitching and you don't win jack s*** without starting pitching. I don't want to wait another 4+ years to finally develop another SP that is worth a damn. Get some good spects, then when someone becomes available, trade whatever you have to trade for him and then lock his ass up.

 

And on top of that, if the Sox are going to tank it all, I want to see the Sox start negotiating with Borass-represented prospects, and I want to see the best players taken regardless of signability, and I want to see MLB contracts offered if applicable. Porcello would sure look nice in our rotation ATM. If the Sox try to rebuild while still trying to make it as hard on themselves as possible by refusing to negotiate with particular agents and by refusing to give out MLB contracts to draft spects and by refusing to go over slot in the first 5+ rounds then there's no f***ing point. I hope the recent MLB contracts to Cuban players and the over slot bonuses to Danks and Beckham are signs of things to come.

[Dick Allen]

I'll just have to very much disagree with you here. I think Getz and Fields are doing about what you'd expect them to do at this point, maybe a little under for Fields. Alexei Ramirez at this point last year was worse than Fields or Getz are right now.

 

You expected Josh Fields to be hitting .224 with 2 homers at this point? Fields has had 125 AB this year, after 125 AB last year Alexei was hitting .293 with 4 homers. I don't know what he did today, but coming into today's game Fields was hitting .109 when he fell behind in the count 0-1.

Edited May 19, 2009 by Dick Allen

[NorthSideSox72]

You expected Josh Fields to be hitting .224 with 2 homers at this point? Fields has had 125 AB this year, after 125 AB last year Alexei was hitting .293 with 4 homers. I don't know what he did today, but coming into today's game Fields was hitting .109 when he fell behind in the count 0-1.

Meh, I expected more like .240 or .250, which is why I specifically said he is a little under. Also, he is at a bottom right now, and will probably be back to .250 relatively soon. So yeah, he's just a little under.

 

[elrockinMT]

You expected Josh Fields to be hitting .224 with 2 homers at this point? Fields has had 125 AB this year, after 125 AB last year Alexei was hitting .293 with 4 homers. I don't know what he did today, but coming into today's game Fields was hitting .109 when he fell behind in the count 0-1.

 

 

With all the hype and the reminder of his 23 himers in 2007 I expected Babe Ruth like numbers and knew it wasn't going to happen

[The Ginger Kid]

looks like the twins will be coming to town on a 4 game skid.

 

someone is going to get well in this series

[WCSox]

To be honest, KW didnt make the moves to put us in a good place EITHER last year or this year.

 

Agreed about this year, but I completely disagree about last year. Kenny overpaid big-time for Linebrink and Dotel to shore up what was an awul 'pen in 2007. He also traded for Cabrera (an upgrade over Uribe) and Swisher (who was a pretty solid player at the time), signed Alexei and Quentin for depth, and decided to give Crede and his chronically-bad back one last shot. Outside of over-paying for Torii Huner or Rowand (and it's not like Swish sucked in CF), he did just about everything he reasonably could to make them competitive once again. He even took a flyer on Griffey midway through the season. Unlike this past winter, Kenny did a pretty good job of addressing needs last season.

 

It's the perfect time, because I truly don't believe the fans will be upset if they blow it up now.

 

I agree. Lots of our young players had better-than-average to great seasons last year (Danks, Floyd, Quentin, Alexei) and it still wasn't enough. With the core of our lineup is either in or entering the downside of their careers (Konerko, Dye, Thome), it's time to move some of these dinosaurs. With their NTCs, I don't see Paulie or Thome going anywhere. It seems most likely that Dye and Dotel will be gone by the deadline. If he pitches well for the next two months and Kenny's willing to eat some of his salary, I could even see Linebrink potentially going to a contender.

Edited May 19, 2009 by WCSox

[EvilJester99]

I wonder with Delgado having hip surgery would the Mets be interested in Kong....

 

Carlos Delgado To Have Hip Surgery

By Tim Dierkes [May 18 at 5:16pm CST]

 

An update from the Mets on Carlos Delgado: he'll have hip surgery tomorrow, and will probably be out until the All-Star break. We discussed possible replacements a few times here at MLBTR, but the Mets might be able to make it a few months with in-house candidates.

[flavum]

I really doubt Konerko would allow a trade to the Mets. Maybe if this was his walk year, but I just don't see that being a match.

[Chisoxfn]

I wonder with Delgado having hip surgery would the Mets be interested in Kong....

 

Carlos Delgado To Have Hip Surgery

By Tim Dierkes [May 18 at 5:16pm CST]

 

An update from the Mets on Carlos Delgado: he'll have hip surgery tomorrow, and will probably be out until the All-Star break. We discussed possible replacements a few times here at MLBTR, but the Mets might be able to make it a few months with in-house candidates.

I wondered the exact same thing when I saw that scroll across the ticker. However, what do the Mets do when they have Konerko and Delgado. I realize Delgado's career is near an end but he's still good enough to play and in this economy that would be a lot of money for one of those two to sit on the bench. Unless he's out for the season or the Mets just collapse in the standings and need to make a move to stay in the race, I don't know if Paulie makes sense.

[caulfield12]

This might be a bit too early and I'd be the first to admit injuries have played a large part in this season and I'm not at all saying it would be impossible for the Sox to go out and win the division, afterall, I felt a healthy Sox team might have beaten the Rays and advanced to the World Series.

 

However, this club, as it is currently constructed doesn't do it for me. We have a much worse rotation, a similar pen (which is a good thing), and a much worse lineup. CF/SS/2B/3B are all worse this season as opposed to last season. In addition, Dye is not playing as good as he was last year and Thome currently isn't (although compared to last year this time, Thome had poor numbers than too) as well. Hell, Konerko is pretty much the only go doing a better job and I won't throw Quentin into this mess either because he has had injuries to deal with but he's clearly not done as good of a job.

 

So the lineup is much worse and defensively it is awful and the rotation is significantly worse (even though 3/5th's of it is the same) because two guys are having some growing pains (Danks/Floyd). As far as I'm concerned, this means now is a good time to try something new.

 

It might still be a week or two too early, but we'll know everything we need to know about the Sox within the next 2 weeks, imo. We'll see if they are potentially a contender and if they aren't, by June 1st Kenny needs to have his selling hat on cause it would be time to make some wholesale changes to the current club with the intent of putting the club in a position to contend next season (cause we can't go 4 years without contending, it would be stupid in this economy, unless we want to see a 30M payroll for a long long time).

 

So who are the locks to go:

Dye/Thome/Dotel/Colon - Three of the four are on expiring contracts and the other has been an above average reliever with a bit of a high contract, but nothing that would prevent a contending team from taking it on. I'd also be hard pressed for the Sox to receive Type A compensation for any of these players as it would be far to risky to offer Dye or Thome arbitration and in the case of Colon I would be stunned if he'd ever even qualify for Type B compensation so again, not worth it.

 

This means the likely value on the trade would most likely be less than A level prospects. However, it would not be out of the question to get a B level prospect plus something for Dye and Thome and maybe a former big leaguer whose struggled or hasn't turned the corner for a Dotel/Colon all while clearing off a lot of salary. Over 30 million to be precise.

 

Who steps in?

Brandon Allen would be an immediate option to step in and replace Thome's AB's to the point that the Sox could gauge the type of prospect that he is and make an decision or at least educated guess as whether he's part of the future plans.

 

In the outfield, its pretty clear that the Sox don't have any bats ready to make an immediate impact, so you'd have to think one of the guys they acquire in a trade would be an outfielder that would step in with Brian Anderson getting the bulk of the time in CF (a last ditch effort of sorts to see if he could make it). Shelby/Gartrell/Danks all wait in the wings with Danks having the most upside, but it would be unrealistic to have much expectations for them to fill into the lineup. The Sox could eventually decide they'll stick with Fields and use Viciedo a bit (as he might prove ready at a later date).

 

In the pen, I'd personally be tempted to bring Poreda up and throw him into the pen. Let Coop work on his secondary stuff with a plan of eventually converting him to the rotation, but letting him get comfortable in Chicago first. This probably wouldn't be the White Sox plan though as they seem adamant about giving him a shot as a starter and that probably means more time in the minors (and I don't blame them if they go that route).

 

The biggest question is probably who steps in for Colon. You could again point to Poreda, but I'd pass on that (see above). Than there is Marquez, currently hurt, Egbert, Broadway and a whole lot of blah names. Again, with Richard already up, Broadway is sadly the best current option (Hudson/Carter are the best starting prospects the org has and they are at least a ways off and I wouldn't project either as being elite prospects as of this date...good ones sure, but lots of time for things to go wrong). But I'd like to think the Sox could find a quality guy to plug in here via the trade as well and of course there is always Jose Contreras as a stop-gap until a prospect is ready (and ideally, Contreras comes up, does decent enough and the Sox ship him out with a bit of cash in a purely salary savings deal).

 

Veteran Locks to Stay:

Buehrle is too valuable and you just play it carefully with him. I want to retool, not reload so he stays as he is still a valuable asset the next few years and a face of the franchise.

 

Konerko is a guy I would personally listen to regarding trades and if you were able to get good value, you make a move, but in this market I dont' think teams would be as willing to give up enough to make it worthwhile for the Sox and his stable presence would be worthwhile. Plus, he's a face and you need to keep a few of those to stay cool with the fans. And with Viciedo and Allen both around, it could get really tempting to move Paulie knowing that you plan on an ideal situation of both of them panning out and covering 1B/DH for the next 10 years (and if not, bats like Paulies are easily acquirable, imo).

 

Linebrink

I don't think you get a blow you away offer for Scott and you still need guys to get things to your closer. Linebrink should also be valuable for another year or two and will eventually be the type of guy that you should get Type A or at least B compensation for (if all goes well). So I don't see a major reason to move him (a team blows us away, sure, but it won't happen).

 

Toughest Decision - Bobby Jenks

Jenks is a big time asset and is easily one of the upper echelon closers in baseball. He's still young so he should be a very viable option during your retooling face and will still give you the ability to close out games. Plus at the current rate he's still cheap so there isn't a major reason to move him. However, he could also be the guy that gets you two A prospects. I think he's the guy that you quietly make available, listen to offers, and if the right offer comes along (maybe 25-30% chance) you make the deal. Say a team in need of a closer or stronger pen calls up and offers there two top prospects (at least one being a potential high impact one) and potentially more, you make that deal and move Thornton into the rotation.

 

The bigger beauty of this is you have Thornton signed to a solid deal and have Poreda able to jump in and learn as Thorty's replacement and potentially our future closer. Oh and in time you'll also open up spots for the Links/Omogrosso's of the world to get there chances.

 

In the off-season you evaluate the parts you like, trade some pieces that don't fit to acquire better fits, and use 30M or so on FA pieces (when all is said and ton, the Sox would still cut payroll, but be able to buy a lot in FA to clean up the pen, find a starter and maybe find an impact bat and leadoff hitter).

 

 

You want to make Thornton the closer or make him a starter?

[Chisoxfn]

You want to make Thornton the closer or make him a starter?

Don't know if I had a typo, but the closer.

[Heads22]

I do not trust Matt Thornton as closer....I'm guessing long term we'd be prepping Link.

[Soxfest]

Sox are toast for 2009 ..........I hope smugass KW is happy with his winter of not doing a f***ing thing, Sox fans are paying for it now (11% ticket price increase for 2009) and watching this nonsense day after day!

Edited May 19, 2009 by Soxfest

[GreatScott82]

Blow it up! I'm willing to trade Jenks if it means getting that CF we desperatley need. I would let Fields and Getz play out the season to see if they can turn it around. Guys you must keep from the 05 season: Buerhle and AJ. Thats it. We could probably get something decent for Pauly and Dye. Im sure some team would go after Thome for a pinch hitter/DH for a playoff push. Obviously we wont get much for him, but anything would be a bonus. Dotel could probably net a decent pitching prospect.

 

Guys to see next year: Beckham and Poreda- but i just dont see the Sox calling them up this year.

 

Free agents to go after: Carl Crawford -The Sox should have a good amount of money to spend on free agents this winter and if TB doesn't give Carl that Club option for 10 million, he could be a free agent, he could play LF while Quentin could move over to RF.

Chone Figgins- I think Fields will get every oppurtunity to succeed, but i just see him being the next Brian Anderson of our organization.

John Lackey-- We totally need another starting pitcher, and it seems like the Angels have dropped the ball on re-signing this guy.

 

My predictions:

1) Jenks will be traded for our future CF.

2) Dye will be traded for pitching prospects

3) Thome will be traded for a couple cheap prospects

4) Dotel will be traded for a decent prospect

 

Blow it up Kenny. . .

 

[TheBigHurt]

Say Figgins walks as a FA, Sox get very good draft pick compensation for Figgins, salary savings (Konerko next season) and thus it is a very valuable trade. If they sign him, at least they have a leadoff hitter. We can argue and discuss how over-rated Figgins is, but he adds value. Bottom line, I don't mind that deal at all. If the Angels would rather have Linebrink I'd do it too to be honest, because I value the 2 picks we'd get for Figgins and to me two high draft picks and financial savings is worth moving a relatively high priced and aging (yet productive) reliever and an aging slugger.

 

I don't know if the Angels do it, but it might not be a bad move for them. Maybe they prefer Dye and in that case I'd ask for a bit more, but again, getting Figgins is pretty valuable because he's the type of guy the Sox could afford offering arbitration too and would probably get top flight compensation for if he walked. If Dye was involved though, I'd probably ask for something in addition to Figgins as he is a bit more valuable. Say you move Konerko in a seperate deal, than it might not be that bad to ask for Morales, whose been playing pretty darn well in Anaheim.

 

I would do Dye/Dotel/Linebrink (in fact, I'd move all three) in a large deal with the Angels for Figgins and Morales. Morales slides into the offense and gives you a younger bat thats MLB ready. Figgins gives you a leadoff hitter or compensation depending on the route you take. Angels get much needed power and more importantly a major boost to there bullpen. Again, I'd prefer to keep one of the relievers and package him elsewhere but it wouldn't be the worse deal in the world.

 

Plus I think the Sox have a few nice looking relief arms that would be best suited getting there feet wet this year, ie, Poreda, Link, Omogrosso (maybe he starts?).

 

I really want a legit leadoff as well, but really?

[OilCan]

looks like the twins will be coming to town on a 4 game skid.

 

someone is going to get well in this series

 

Rally Crede???

 

Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if Justin Morneau goes Ape-you-know-what again on the South Side.