Jeff Passan doesn't sugar-coat the Peavy trade

[knightni]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ap62...o&type=lgns

[Marty34]

Passan's article is silly. Add Peavy and they still have about $25M coming off the books next year. Their two biggest bats play the critical defensive positions of RF and DH. Don't you think they can replace Dye and Thome's production for a lot less than $25M?

[Reddy]

Passan's article is silly. Add Peavy and they still have about $25M coming off the books next year. Their two biggest bats play the critical defensive positions of RF and DH. Don't you think they can replace Dye and Thome's production for a lot less than $25M?

two guys who have 30-40 hr, 100 rbi power? not really all that likely...

[bschmaranz]

I didn't even read the article. I looked at the author's picture and closed the window.

Edited May 25, 2009 by bschmaranz

[G&T]

 

I give him credit for at least realizing that the Sox are the only that actually wants and can afford him. Otherwise, this is a rehash of every other article.

[ThunderBolt]

It's amazing how many ignorant people can get a job and type with some semblence of authority. The White Sox's made a calculated risk to get one of the top 5 pitchers in the game. They did this knowing that they were in a bad division and were a slumping team, KW was hoping to chance this. How? Gee, i don't know, how about get Jake freaking Peavy to start with?

[WCSox]

It's amazing how many ignorant people can get a job and type with some semblence of authority.

 

No kidding. I love these lines...

 

a) Go to an unfamiliar city in an unfamiliar league with a manager apt to Vesuvian blow-ups,

 

Yeah, Ozzie has a really difficult time getting along with veterans who didn't come up through the Sox organization, as evidenced by Jim Thome, Freddy Garcia, Jermaine Dye, A.J. Pierzynski, and Ken Griffey, Jr. They all hate Ozzie.

 

a young nucleus with atoms more Cu than Au and a general manager who shows no qualms in trading young talent – the lifeblood of a successful modern-day franchise

 

And the Sox are really paying for dealing young "talent" like Miguel Olivo, Jeremy Reed, Brandon McCarthy, and Gio Gonzalez for proven veteran talent. Good job with the research there, junior.

 

B) Live in paradise for, at most, the next 2½ months, then join a pennant race.

 

Right, the pennant race. Because the same organizations that tried to trade for Peavy and failed this past winter - and already spent their money elsewhere - are now going to pick up Peavy's $22 million option IN ADDITION to the $50-some million he's contractually owed - in the middle of a really bad recession, where the vast majority of GMs are hesitant to spend. Gotcha. And Peavy is apparently refusing to play in the AL, cutting the list of possible suitors in half. And the only team that he's actually shown interest in playing for is in bankruptcy court and can't pick up his contract. Yeah, I'm sure that Peavy will be joining that pennant race in no time.

 

It's much more likely that Peavy will sit in his brand new home in sunny San Diego for the remainder of the year and wait for a better situation to open up this winter.

 

This quote was also entertaining...

 

Take two equally horrifying scenarios, squirm while considering the lesser of two ills, offer a begrudging answer.

 

I'll give him that the Sox appear to be in bad shape this year, but how are the Padres and Sox on the same level as an organization? The Padres lost 99 games last year and are looking to shed payroll. Their market is also dominated by two much better franchises who have actually won championships. "Equally horrifying," my ass. The Padres are a third-tier organization.

 

I actually agree with this guy's assessment that the Sox are not the ideal situation for Peavy. But his reasoning is completely retarded.

Edited May 25, 2009 by WCSox

[Texsox]

Did anyone think Peavy came here, read how badly this team sucks, and is going to suck for a long time, and decided not to come? I've been reading for months here how this team sucks, then when it's in print elsewhere, suddenly that writer is an idiot

[Reddy]

Did anyone think Peavy came here, read how badly this team sucks, and is going to suck for a long time, and decided not to come? I've been reading for months here how this team sucks, then when it's in print elsewhere, suddenly that writer is an idiot

 

gotta love it.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

No kidding. I love these lines...

 

 

 

Yeah, Ozzie has a really difficult time getting along with veterans who didn't come up through the Sox organization, as evidenced by Jim Thome, Freddy Garcia, Jermaine Dye, A.J. Pierzynski, and Ken Griffey, Jr. They all hate Ozzie.

 

 

 

And the Sox are really paying for dealing young "talent" like Miguel Olivo, Jeremy Reed, Brandon McCarthy, and Gio Gonzalez for proven veteran talent. Good job with the research there, junior.

 

 

 

Right, the pennant race. Because the same organizations that tried to trade for Peavy and failed this past winter - and already spent their money elsewhere - are now going to pick up Peavy's $22 million option IN ADDITION to the $50-some million he's contractually owed - in the middle of a really bad recession, where the vast majority of GMs are hesitant to spend. Gotcha. And Peavy is apparently refusing to play in the AL, cutting the list of possible suitors in half. And the only team that he's actually shown interest in playing for is in bankruptcy court and can't pick up his contract. Yeah, I'm sure that Peavy will be joining that pennant race in no time.

 

It's much more likely that Peavy will sit in his brand new home in sunny San Diego for the remainder of the year and wait for a better situation to open up this winter.

 

This quote was also entertaining...

 

 

 

I'll give him that the Sox appear to be in bad shape this year, but how are the Padres and Sox on the same level as an organization? The Padres lost 99 games last year and are looking to shed payroll. Their market is also dominated by two much better franchises who have actually won championships. "Equally horrifying," my ass. The Padres are a third-tier organization.

 

I actually agree with this guy's assessment that the Sox are not the ideal situation for Peavy. But his reasoning is completely retarded.

 

Great post.

 

[Kalapse]

Did anyone think Peavy came here, read how badly this team sucks, and is going to suck for a long time, and decided not to come? I've been reading for months here how this team sucks, then when it's in print elsewhere, suddenly that writer is an idiot

Not entirely sure where you read that one. I'm Curious who exactly believes this team's future is beak, since you're confident enough to put it in a post calling people out I'd love to hear some names. I'm almost positive the 3 people in this thread that have expressed their displeasure with the premise of the posted article are not amongst those you speak of so we can cross them off to start. Blanket statements are fun though.

 

I'm also curious what your opinion is of the article.

[mmmmmbeeer]

Not one mention in that entire article about the $22M elephant in the room. Pretty irresponsible journalism.

 

 

[Reddy]

guys, who honestly thinks Peavy didn't make the best decision for himself, career and stat-wise? In that regard I have nothing against Passan's article. He'll do better in the NL, end of story, and he'll probably get picked up by a contender at the deadline instead of ... us.

[WCSox]

guys, who honestly thinks Peavy didn't make the best decision for himself, career and stat-wise?

 

No argument there.

 

In that regard I have nothing against Passan's article.

 

Too bad Passan's criticism of the way that Kenny and Ozzie run the Sox is about as mature and professional as his haircut.

 

He'll do better in the NL, end of story, and he'll probably get picked up by a contender at the deadline instead of ... us.

 

Stat-wise, he may do better in the NL. But if we define "better" as "winning a championship," I don't necessarily agree. Peavy is also far from a lock to be traded this season. The only big spenders in the NL are the Mets, and I don't see them adding to their $150 million payroll. The Cubs can't add a dime to their payroll right now and I seriously doubt that Towers would trade him to a division rival like the Dodgers. That basically leaves the Cardinals and Braves, and the latter already failed to come to terms with the Padres this past winter.

 

[bighurt4life]

Too bad Passan's criticism of the way that Kenny and Ozzie run the Sox is about as mature and professional as his haircut.

 

 

ha

[Disco72]

It's too bad that most writers discussing the trade need to either bash Peavy or bash the Sox. As most have stated, there haven't been many intelligent, baseball oriented discussions of this trade/non-trade. In all seriousness, thankfully we have some pretty good baseball conversation on this site rather than relying on this stable of baseball "experts."

[Texsox]

Not entirely sure where you read that one. I'm Curious who exactly believes this team's future is beak, since you're confident enough to put it in a post calling people out I'd love to hear some names. I'm almost positive the 3 people in this thread that have expressed their displeasure with the premise of the posted article are not amongst those you speak of so we can cross them off to start. Blanket statements are fun though.

 

I'm also curious what your opinion is of the article.

 

I am not going to wade through old threads and find those that have criticized KW for depleting the farm system, not finding a reliable lead off hitter, center fielder, or any of the rest. I could point to Josh Fields is a bust type threads. The I'm sick and tired of this s*** threads. The posts where we should blow up this team and start a rebuilding process. If you have not read them, I'm not going to read them for you.

 

And I'm not curious about your* opinion of the article, but I thank you for being curious of mine.

The article is the perspective of one guy who does not follow the Sox as closely as most here. Often times the out of town writer opinions take a season or two to change. The opinions have to be formed while writing on deadlines. The writer does not have the luxury of living and dying with one team, so they are never as accurate as the hometown beat writers. Of course, the hometown guy is also an idiot if he disagrees with the average poster's opinion.

 

*or anyone's opinion. An opinion of this writer's opinion is kind of boring.

[elrockinMT]

Passan's article is silly. Add Peavy and they still have about $25M coming off the books next year. Their two biggest bats play the critical defensive positions of RF and DH. Don't you think they can replace Dye and Thome's production for a lot less than $25M?

 

 

I don't think they can. Maybe replace a 40 HR guy with a 15 homer guy, but we will be lacking for sure

[SoxFan562004]

I give him credit for at least realizing that the Sox are the only that actually wants and can afford him. Otherwise, this is a rehash of every other article.

I'll give him credit for putting that in there, which is a HUGE part of the story that just about every other media outlet ignores

[WCSox]

The article is the perspective of one guy who does not follow the Sox as closely as most here. Often times the out of town writer opinions take a season or two to change. The opinions have to be formed while writing on deadlines. The writer does not have the luxury of living and dying with one team, so they are never as accurate as the hometown beat writers.

 

Not being a homer beat writer doesn't excuse blatant ignorance. If you don't know what you're talking about, either educate yourself or don't write an ill-informed article that actual fans will tear to pieces.

 

The inference that Ozzie can't get along with veterans is the type of Mariotti-esque shock-jock garbage that is intended to increase readership, rather than to reflect reality and provoke thought. If this guy wants to take the Mariotti road and pander to the lowest common denominator to make a buck, that's his business. But I'll call him on it every time.

Edited May 25, 2009 by WCSox

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Not being a homer beat writer doesn't excuse blatant ignorance. If you don't know what you're talking about, either educate yourself or don't write an ill-informed article that actual fans will tear to pieces.

 

The inference that Ozzie can't get along with veterans is the type of Mariotti-esque shock-jock garbage that is intended to increase readership, rather than to reflect reality and provoke thought. If this guy wants to take the Mariotti road and pander to the lowest common denominator to make a buck, that's his business. But I'll call him on it every time.

It seems like most national types go that route. Gammons is one I can think of that doesn't.

 

Of course there are exceptions, but generally it seems the beat writers are more respectful to other players and franchises around the league. For example, I'm sure that if Scott Merkin was tasked with the responsibility of writing an article on a prospective deal between two teams he may not be as knowledgeable about, say a deal between the Orioles and the Rockies, he would do his research and present something much more accurate, and a big part of the reason why he'd more much more accurate is because he wouldn't play fill-in-the-blank with hearsay and accusations.

[Dick Allen]

Did anyone think Peavy came here, read how badly this team sucks, and is going to suck for a long time, and decided not to come? I've been reading for months here how this team sucks, then when it's in print elsewhere, suddenly that writer is an idiot

DH-Thome, done. Worst player in baseball

1B-Konerko-should be released

2B-Getz-obviously not a very high ceiling, needs to be replaced

SS-Ramirez-can't field, now can't hit

3B-Fields-bust

LF-Quentin-wrist injury has taken all his power

CF-BA-garbage, Pods-garbage

RF-Dye-s/b traded and money given to Cincinatti for Homer Bailey, his ERA is only about 12.00

C-AJP-can't we just get a new catcher

 

Are these comments what you are talking about? I agree with a couple of them myself. Its also the same when b****ing about Greg Walker. The players all suck, but somehow a good hitting coach should have them all hitting .340.

[lostfan]

So, did any of the posters that were bashing Passan IN THIS THREAD say that? Blanket statements are easier especially when you can separate yourself from the people you're blanketing, also good job completely avoiding the point Kalapse tried to make.

[caulfield12]

Two points.

 

Ozzie as Mt. Vesuvius really doesn't have anything to do with his relationships with the players...it's an image that has been fostered by the media, part of it is artifice to actually take attention away from the players or a slump, part of it's Ozzie being Ozzie.

 

The relationship with Orlando Cabrera seemingly was mended over the offseason, Vazquez never really had any problems with Ozzie (that we know of) until he called him out before the playoffs, and that was probably just a psychological motivational tactic because everything they'd tried to get the best out of Javier (good cop/soft gloves) hadn't worked, so they went with a little tough love. Cooper was probably harder in private on Javy than Ozzie ever was. There's Nick Swisher...and maybe someone will go back to Frank Thomas, but that was more on KW than the manager.

 

In fact, if you ask all those pitchers on our team (and former pitchers like Garland, Loaiza or Garcia) who the best manager they ever dealt with in terms of giving a lot of rope to the starters was, most would undoubtedly say Ozzie Guillen.

 

 

As far as this idea of ravaging and pillaging the farm system, there's no example of a player who came up through our system who has become a star somewhere else. If anything, Peavy should be encouraged that the GM is willing (unlike the Angels, for example) to deal prospects for results in the short-term. Frank Francisco is the only prospect (and he was only with us for a year after the Howry trade to the Red Sox) we've had in our system that has been a big success somewhere else, and he's gone through his own set of problems (injuries, chair throwing).

 

If anything, you would wonder how the White Sox are only 5 games under .500 or how they're doing it with smoke and mirrors...they overachieved last year and are returning to "mean" a little bit this year.

 

The White Sox have always been pretty good at developing players...that have major league careers...but we haven't done a good job in producing All-Star or superstar caliber players. I read somewhere where we were something like #10 or #12 in terms of major leaguers that had been developed in any given farm system (from studying all the Opening Day rosters). Maybe this was 2-3 years ago, and the ranking might have slipped to the middle of the pack now, but the ship is being righted.

Edited May 25, 2009 by caulfield12

[Kalapse]

I am not going to wade through old threads and find those that have criticized KW for depleting the farm system, not finding a reliable lead off hitter, center fielder, or any of the rest. I could point to Josh Fields is a bust type threads. The I'm sick and tired of this s*** threads. The posts where we should blow up this team and start a rebuilding process. If you have not read them, I'm not going to read them for you.

 

And I'm not curious about your* opinion of the article, but I thank you for being curious of mine.

The article is the perspective of one guy who does not follow the Sox as closely as most here. Often times the out of town writer opinions take a season or two to change. The opinions have to be formed while writing on deadlines. The writer does not have the luxury of living and dying with one team, so they are never as accurate as the hometown beat writers. Of course, the hometown guy is also an idiot if he disagrees with the average poster's opinion.

 

*or anyone's opinion. An opinion of this writer's opinion is kind of boring.

That's fine then, I guess message boards need those who just come by to take pot shots at the rest while really providing no opinion of their own. I'm not entirely sure why you even bothered to read the comments in this thread considering the vast majority of them are likely to be opinions of the writer's opinion and the rest will be opinions of the opinions of the writer's opinion. After all, that would be boring. Perhaps you just can't pass up an opportunity to point out the many hypocrisies of this board's posters.

 

You say the board consensus is that this team is going to suck for a while, I don't think that's the case at all. So naturally I'm going to be curious as to why you hold this opinion. What I think most believe: this team has a good young core, an owner willing to spend, a s*** load of money coming off the books, a very good farm system and an aggressive general manager with a knack of dealing the right guys at the right time. Sound like a recipe for a quick turn around if things don't work out this year.

 

I still find it interesting that you were able to determine a board consensus after 3 posts (I believe that's how many posters stated their displeasure with the posted article), seems like a sample size issue to me. Of course it's awful hard to determine your real point when you're speaking in generalities. If you're going to start calling out hypocrites perhaps you should start with the people in this thread.