North Korea tests another nuclear bomb

[NorthSideSox72]

Let me ask this. Will more people die when Il decides to use a nuclear device?

Of course.

 

Do you think he actually will? And if he actually can, don't you think that us invading would prompt him to try?

 

I think the current course of action would be a mistake if Il was 25 years old, healthy, and had a population that wasn't in such dire straights. As it is though, he's about to die, we'll get new leadership, and try a new path. If that works, great. If not, then we start talking other options. That's my view, anyway.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Bingo. That's my point. We have this anti-military option, but at the end of the day we're not stopping them. They obviously have the technology, and they may or may not have the ability to load that technology on a warhead and send it across their border.

 

To me it's asinine to continue to say economic aid and diplomacy is the answer. That's like giving a crack addict money to stop buying crack. They're never going to stop and you just wasted a bunch of money. They're a broken and poor country with leadership that's borderline insane, who hate their neighbors and would like to eradicate them. Yeah they've been playing nice for a while, but I see them doing that just so they can destroy the south with minimal losses on their side.

 

And I am glad to see that Russia is taking this seriously.

[southsider2k5]

Of course.

 

Do you think he actually will? And if he actually can, don't you think that us invading would prompt him to try?

 

I think the current course of action would be a mistake if Il was 25 years old, healthy, and had a population that wasn't in such dire straights. As it is though, he's about to die, we'll get new leadership, and try a new path. If that works, great. If not, then we start talking other options. That's my view, anyway.

 

I think he is more likely to do something stupid with nothing to lose, than with his whole life in front of him.

[lostfan]

lol, listening to you guys talk I'm so glad I can't be drafted now. Fighting in one ill-advised war is enough.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

They (does'nt even matter what country) need to get someone(s) in there to take out the leadership of that country. Then, expose the masses to the realities of the world around them and what could be available to them. Show them what life is like in countries where the ruler doesn't sacrifice the welfare of his people in exchange for absolute rule and fanatic ideologies. Send in aid and back a conservative, pro-western person(s) to lead the country. Reverse propagandize it to show the people of the country that we aren't teh bad guys, but that those who used to "lead" them were.

[southsider2k5]

They (does'nt even matter what country) need to get someone(s) in there to take out the leadership of that country. Then, expose the masses to the realities of the world around them and what could be available to them. Show them what life is like in countries where the ruler doesn't sacrifice the welfare of his people in exchange for absolute rule and fanatic ideologies. Send in aid and back a conservative, pro-western person(s) to lead the country. Reverse propagandize it to show the people of the country that we aren't teh bad guys, but that those who used to "lead" them were.

 

Exposing the people of NK to what life is like even in SK would lead to the downfall of that government. That's why I believe NK invading any country would be a failure for them. The only option they are going to have is to use the nuclear devise.

[Soxbadger]

There are no real implications that Kim Il-Jong will actually use a nuclear weapon.

 

(Damn posted before I was done)

 

My guess is that they want it for "deterrence" in that if they have one other countries are less likely to invade for fear of atomic reprisal.

 

Nukes arent that great for offense unless you have a lot of them. If NK nuked some one it would kill a lot of people, but also be the end of NK, so not sure why they would do that for no reason.

 

Second, Im not always sure that "if people see how others live" theyll immediately change.

 

North Vietnam was well aware of how South Vietnam lived (to the point where thousands if not millions starved to death in NK because of rice not being shipped in large enough amounts from the South to North), but at the end of the day they preferred communism, because it was the communists who had fought off the west and gained Vietnam's independence, not the democrats.

 

Im not that familiar with Korea's history. So I am not going to sit here thousands of miles away and believe that my way of live is better and that all that it takes is people to see it and theyll change. My way of life is 1 way, maybe not the best, maybe not the worst.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Soxbadger

[kapkomet]

There is no real implications that Kim Il-Jong will NOT actually use a nuclear weapon.

 

Yea, this too.

 

[Soxbadger]

So you also believe no one should have guns, or anything dangerous because we dont know what they might do?

[southsider2k5]

There are no real implications that Kim Il-Jong will actually use a nuclear weapon.

 

(Damn posted before I was done)

 

My guess is that they want it for "deterrence" in that if they have one other countries are less likely to invade for fear of atomic reprisal.

 

Nukes arent that great for offense unless you have a lot of them. If NK nuked some one it would kill a lot of people, but also be the end of NK, so not sure why they would do that for no reason.

 

Second, Im not always sure that "if people see how others live" theyll immediately change.

 

North Vietnam was well aware of how South Vietnam lived (to the point where thousands if not millions starved to death in NK because of rice not being shipped in large enough amounts from the South to North), but at the end of the day they preferred communism, because it was the communists who had fought off the west and gained Vietnam's independence, not the democrats.

 

Im not that familiar with Korea's history. So I am not going to sit here thousands of miles away and believe that my way of live is better and that all that it takes is people to see it and theyll change. My way of life is 1 way, maybe not the best, maybe not the worst.

 

NK has no idea how the rest of the world lives. Their have been millions of people starve to death there, and there are still people starving every day in high numbers. Their average height has actually fallen to inches shorter than their SK counterparts because of the perpetual malnutrition that goes on there. You can trick people into fighting for many reasons, religion is usually the most effective, but not having anything to eat is the quickest way to get people to drop your particular cause.

[Nixon]

It's China's sphere of influence, let them deal with it.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

It's China's sphere of influence, let them deal with it.

 

Yeah, that's the right policy...

[Soxbadger]

NK has no idea how the rest of the world lives. Their have been millions of people starve to death there, and there are still people starving every day in high numbers. Their average height has actually fallen to inches shorter than their SK counterparts because of the perpetual malnutrition that goes on there. You can trick people into fighting for many reasons, religion is usually the most effective, but not having anything to eat is the quickest way to get people to drop your particular cause.

 

Millions of people starved to death in Northern Vietnam before the conflict with the French and US.

 

All it did was make them even more fervent in their devotion to Ho Chi Minh and the Communist leaders who starved in the fields with them.

 

Many Chinese are unaware of the Tiananmen Square protest and if shown a picture of "tank man" could not identify where or when it happened.

 

It is possible that the people of North Korea's minds have become warped over time. I dont know how they would react to being shown western values (or even South Korea), but I do know that historically speaking, Democracy and to some extent Capitalism have not always been able to sway people.

 

My guess is that the people of North Korea may very well believe that it is the west/capitalism's fault for all of the ills of the country.

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

It's China's sphere of influence, let them deal with it.

That's worked swimmingly so far.

 

[Texsox]

NK has no idea how the rest of the world lives. Their have been millions of people starve to death there, and there are still people starving every day in high numbers. Their average height has actually fallen to inches shorter than their SK counterparts because of the perpetual malnutrition that goes on there. You can trick people into fighting for many reasons, religion is usually the most effective, but not having anything to eat is the quickest way to get people to drop your particular cause.

 

Agreed. Fighting for food, water, or oxygen is the greatest incentive of all. Those are the three primary motivations for everything we do.

[lostfan]

Americans have an unfortunate tendency to see things from elsewhere the way we see them (or want to see in them), and make assumptions based off that. Usually, they're wrong.

[southsideirish71]

There are no real implications that Kim Il-Jong will actually use a nuclear weapon.

 

(Damn posted before I was done)

 

My guess is that they want it for "deterrence" in that if they have one other countries are less likely to invade for fear of atomic reprisal.

 

Nukes arent that great for offense unless you have a lot of them. If NK nuked some one it would kill a lot of people, but also be the end of NK, so not sure why they would do that for no reason.

 

Second, Im not always sure that "if people see how others live" theyll immediately change.

 

North Vietnam was well aware of how South Vietnam lived (to the point where thousands if not millions starved to death in NK because of rice not being shipped in large enough amounts from the South to North), but at the end of the day they preferred communism, because it was the communists who had fought off the west and gained Vietnam's independence, not the democrats.

 

Im not that familiar with Korea's history. So I am not going to sit here thousands of miles away and believe that my way of live is better and that all that it takes is people to see it and theyll change. My way of life is 1 way, maybe not the best, maybe not the worst.

 

The problem is not deterrence. Its the fact that they like to develop a technology and then sell it and the expertise for profit. Their missiles seem to be a hit in certain middle east countries. How much do you think certain countries/terrorists would play them for a workable product, or even some of those hard to get/make subsets of one.

[Balta1701]

The problem is not deterrence. Its the fact that they like to develop a technology and then sell it and the expertise for profit. Their missiles seem to be a hit in certain middle east countries. How much do you think certain countries/terrorists would play them for a workable product, or even some of those hard to get/make subsets of one.

So why do we let their missiles through (I refer you to the event of the U.S. grabbing a ship loaded with North Korean missiles bound for Yemen a few years ago and then letting the ship pass through to its destination after protests from the Yemeni government.)

[southsideirish71]

So why do we let their missiles through (I refer you to the event of the U.S. grabbing a ship loaded with North Korean missiles bound for Yemen a few years ago and then letting the ship pass through to its destination after protests from the Yemeni government.)

 

Because North Korea thinks that seizing their ships is an act of war.

 

 

North Korea not so happy with seizing of ships.

[Balta1701]

Because North Korea thinks that seizing their ships is an act of war.

 

 

North Korea not so happy with seizing of ships.

Siezing someone's ships/a naval blockade is an act of war.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Siezing someone's ships/a naval blockade is an act of war.

yea, kinda is.

[Jenksismyhero]

NK with more missile tests today and more planned. Also demands an apology from the UN and threatens to act if sanctions are imposed. Good times.

[lostfan]

I think the increased hostility fron NK. will go a long way in changing minds in Japan.

btw if Japan does change their minds and gets nukes, China would have a full-blown s***-fit and this would start an Asian arms race.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

btw if Japan does change their minds and gets nukes, China would have a full-blown s***-fit and this would start an Asian arms race.

 

 

I almost wonder if Japan should float around the idea that they may interested in aquiring nukes just to get China to force the issue a bit with North Korea.

[HuskyCaucasian]

The AThomeBoy Doctrine:

The world tells you not to test nuclear weapons.... you test nuclear weapons... we test nuclear weapons on you.