Chisoxfn Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 27, 2009 -> 08:47 AM) Poreda would fall in to the "Might be nice" category for the Giants. He might be nice, but he doesn't fill their needs; all he does is give them an extra year or two before their pitcher becomes expensive/FA. They have pitching. They need a bat. Guys I wouldn't part with for Cain: Quentin Beckham Viciedo Ramirez D2: the Mighty Danks Flowers (he's the right value level...but that's where Posey plays and frankly we need a catcher at some point in the next year or two) Guys I might part with that they might actually be interested in: Allen Anderson/Fields (although we've pretty well managed to destroy their trade value haven't we) Getz Shelby Etc. I don't know if Allen would interest them, but he might well be the best fit as a deal centerpiece, unless we can sell them on Brian Anderson (frankly, I think they'd be smart to try to get him, but considering how determined we are to put him on the bench I doubt they'd figure that out) A deal won't get done with what you are dangling. The Giants best offensive prospects are a young internationally signed first baseman and Buster Posey © so they have no interest in Allen. Andesron and Fields have no trade value, Getz is a nice piece to the Sox but on the open market he's a throw in type of guy, Shelby again, solid value as a 3rd or 4th piece, probably worth more to the Sox. So given who you'd actually part with, there is a negative % chance that a deal gets done. I personally would consider doing Quentin for Cain. Call me crazy, but with all of our bats in the system, I'd potentially be willing to take a chance, especially given Quentin's checkered past (in regards to injuries). That said, it would be a real real tough decision and I think there might be better guys out there where we don't have to dangle CQ or other ways to get deals done without doing Quentin. Oh and one note, I'll take Cain over Oswalt every day of the week on this club. We don't need a pitcher whose at or near the end of his prime, I want one entering his prime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 27, 2009 -> 08:49 AM) Ramirez, Hudson, and Poreda Get it done, KW! /annoying trade maker-upper guy I think thats a deal the Giants consider, but only if Hudson and Poreda are going to another team for another bat. The Giants have two pitching prospects in the system at a much more elite level than Hudson/Poreda are and because of that they'll be looking primarily for offense. So if the Sox can get a 3rd team involved and use Hudson/Poreda to get one more good bat, well than you might have a deal. And its a deal I make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 27, 2009 -> 09:04 AM) And its a deal I make. Frankly, it's a deal I don't make. I think we'd be overpaying as written, even if Poreda is just a Matt Thornton clone. If we were desperate for pitching, which we're not, and we had a glut of highly performing Middle Infielders, I could see us making that move based around Alexei, but not with the other 2 added in. Lower guys. One other thing to keep in mind when Considering Alexei...we have another Cuban whose decision to sign with us likely involved the presence of 2 other Cubans in our organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 27, 2009 -> 11:16 AM) Frankly, it's a deal I don't make. I think we'd be overpaying as written, even if Poreda is just a Matt Thornton clone. If we were desperate for pitching, which we're not, and we had a glut of highly performing Middle Infielders, I could see us making that move based around Alexei, but not with the other 2 added in. Lower guys. One other thing to keep in mind when Considering Alexei...we have another Cuban whose decision to sign with us likely involved the presence of 2 other Cubans in our organization. I agree. I like Cain, but I'm not sold on him being a great option for us. I'd much rather see us get Oswalt at a similar package that we offered Peavy then us giving up Alexei and our top two pitching prospects for Cain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everafan Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 27, 2009 -> 11:00 AM) Is Sabean that bad of a GM? San Fran was a very competitive team for a long time and while they are in a rebuilding mode right now, they already have two front of the rotation young guns (Linnecum and Cain) but they have a couple stud guys down in AA (the two youngest AA pitchers). Those young guys allow them to move Cain but I wont' lie, it doesn't make sense for San Fran unless they get a franchise type of bat. He is much maligned for the Zito and Rowand contracts. Not to mention the Liriano/Nathan/Bonser for AJ trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 QUOTE (everafan @ May 27, 2009 -> 11:20 AM) He is much maligned for the Zito and Rowand contracts. Not to mention the Liriano/Nathan/Bonser for AJ trade. Ive heard some decent arguements that make that trade not look so bad at the time. Hindsight is different but there was justification to that trade at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I'd rather have Cain than Peavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 27, 2009 -> 09:16 AM) Frankly, it's a deal I don't make. I think we'd be overpaying as written, even if Poreda is just a Matt Thornton clone. If we were desperate for pitching, which we're not, and we had a glut of highly performing Middle Infielders, I could see us making that move based around Alexei, but not with the other 2 added in. Lower guys. One other thing to keep in mind when Considering Alexei...we have another Cuban whose decision to sign with us likely involved the presence of 2 other Cubans in our organization. I think the Sox are desperate for pitching, in the sense, that we have zero players in our system currently who project to be a #1 or #2 starter. So I'd say that could make it a serious need, especially given the fact that the team has quite a few offensive minded prospects, one of which (our #1 prospect) plays the same position as Ramirez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 27, 2009 -> 12:00 PM) Is Sabean that bad of a GM? San Fran was a very competitive team for a long time and while they are in a rebuilding mode right now, I'd say Sabean is the second worst GM in the Majors behind Ed Wade. What Sabean has done to that organization is a fireable offense. He has no right fielding that offensive team and putting it behind a pitching staff as good as he has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 27, 2009 -> 11:22 AM) I think the Sox are desperate for pitching, in the sense, that we have zero players in our system currently who project to be a #1 or #2 starter. So I'd say that could make it a serious need, especially given the fact that the team has quite a few offensive minded prospects, one of which (our #1 prospect) plays the same position as Ramirez. I don't think you can ever truly say a system has #1 or #2 starters in their systems until they prove it at the major league level. See Mark Buehrle. While he's not a typical #1, he does what a #1 is supposed to do minus the "stuff." See Gavin Floyd. He's got #1 stuff, but hasn't harnessed it enough. I don't think they are desperate for a #1 or #2, they are desperate for depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 27, 2009 -> 09:22 AM) I think the Sox are desperate for pitching, in the sense, that we have zero players in our system currently who project to be a #1 or #2 starter. So I'd say that could make it a serious need, especially given the fact that the team has quite a few offensive minded prospects, one of which (our #1 prospect) plays the same position as Ramirez. I think first of all, by the definition that seems to get used of a #1 starter, there's not that many teams that actually do have one. Hell, even Jake Peavy can be legitimately questioned given that he's only really pitched in Petco. Matt Cain pitches in a pretty big ballpark of his own. There's plenty of reason to doubt if he'll ever join that select group of 5-10 actual legit #1 starters in MLB. I'm happy to live with a group of #2-#3 starters in our rotation as long as we have like 4 of them. I can understand considering it to be a serious need, and I can understand making a deal for it using one of our middle infield guys, I just don't know that I'm sold that Matt Cain is going to be a guy who we'd trade for who would come out and win 18-20 games a season for 4-5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 27, 2009 -> 11:26 AM) I'd say Sabean is the second worst GM in the Majors behind Ed Wade. What Sabean has done to that organization is a fireable offense. He has no right fielding that offensive team and putting it behind a pitching staff as good as he has. Nothing has been going right for the whole city of San Francisco for a while now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 27, 2009 -> 10:09 AM) The Giants wound want Gordon Beckham. No way around it. They need a middle-infielder with good pop and contact skills. Matt Cain's a good pitcher, an unlucky one, but i'm concerned that his skillset might fair rather badly at the Cell. They can't have Beckham, you can't trade him yet. The last thing SF needs are starting pitchers, which is what the Sox are willing to trade right now. I don't think they would take a Chris Getz and I honestly don't think Ramirez is a good idea to trade. If they really want a middle infielder, I honestly don't see it happening. Now if they want Jermaine Dye and another prospect, that's manageable. But I can't think what this offense would be like without JD and Quentin. Edited May 27, 2009 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ May 27, 2009 -> 09:48 AM) They can't have Beckham, you can't trade him yet. The last thing SF needs are starting pitchers, which is what the Sox are willing to trade right now. I don't think they would take a Chris Getz and I honestly don't think Ramirez is a good idea to trade. If they really want a middle infielder, I honestly don't see it happening. The Sox said they wouldn't trade Beckham straight up for Peavy. I think we can just stop mentioning his name as a possibility. I could see them moving Alexei, but I can't see them doing it just yet, not with Viciedo being such a key ingredient for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 27, 2009 -> 12:50 PM) The Sox said they wouldn't trade Beckham straight up for Peavy. I think we can just stop mentioning his name as a possibility. I could see them moving Alexei, but I can't see them doing it just yet, not with Viciedo being such a key ingredient for the future. It's not something we'd give up for Cain, it's somebody the Giants would want. As opposed to me, who wants Beckham, and doesn't want Cain (that much). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 not this again, if it hits the media it wont happen. KW works behind the scenes, in the shadows of the night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 These teams don't match up well for a trade. They would ask for Beckham or Alexie and KW isn't letting either one go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ May 27, 2009 -> 11:48 AM) They can't have Beckham, you can't trade him yet. The last thing SF needs are starting pitchers, which is what the Sox are willing to trade right now. I don't think they would take a Chris Getz and I honestly don't think Ramirez is a good idea to trade. If they really want a middle infielder, I honestly don't see it happening. Now if they want Jermaine Dye and another prospect, that's manageable. But I can't think what this offense would be like without JD and Quentin. You can trade him just fine, make him a PTBL and its done. This is who they would ask for, we wouldnt do it. Deal over. Its not worth even debating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 QUOTE (Jimbo's Drinker @ May 27, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) not this again, if it hits the media it wont happen. KW works behind the scenes, in the shadows of the night. The Peavy trade happened and Jake turned it down. KW does not work behind the scenes, he works wherever the f*** he wants to, so long as it makes the White Sox better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 27, 2009 -> 01:13 PM) The Peavy trade happened and Jake turned it down. KW does not work behind the scenes, he works wherever the f*** he wants to, so long as it makes the White Sox better. Damn you and your Ryan Sweeney tracker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I'd rather have Cain than Peavy. ^^^^^^^^^^^ I love me some Matt Cain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 QUOTE (SoxAce @ May 27, 2009 -> 01:30 PM) ^^^^^^^^^^^ I love me some Matt Cain. Wave goodbye to Gordon Beckham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Wave goodbye to Gordon Beckham Please. This is Sabean. Offer up a couple of good veterans and we'd give Cain and Lincecum away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 This is why I was cheering against the Sox at the end of the 2007 season. Gordon Beckham could very well be bust but RIGHT NOW if Kenny saw fit he could mark Gordon the centerpiece in a deal for a star major leaguer. The value of a top 10 pick is quite high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 27, 2009 -> 12:06 PM) This is why I was cheering against the Sox at the end of the 2007 season. Gordon Beckham could very well be bust but RIGHT NOW if Kenny saw fit he could mark Gordon the centerpiece in a deal for a star major leaguer. The value of a top 10 pick is quite high. Just think, a few more losses and we could have been holding Pedro Alvarez and his .784 OPS in high A ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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