The starting pitcher the White Sox WILL acquire

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I think you guys are overvaluing taking on Byrnes' contract. Byrnes' deal is up after 2010, so that's probably like $7M this year and $11 next year, then he's off the books. With a buyout on Garland and Webb likely hitting the market after this year, they should be able to work around that.

 

That said, I think a 3-way works best:

 

Sox trade: Jermaine Dye, Poreda, Richard, 2 low-level PTBNL (pitching, Gilmore, Morel, Escobar, etc)

D'Backs trade: Eric Byrnes, Dan Haren

Braves or Reds trade: prospects

 

Sox receive: Dan Haren, Eric Byrnes

D'Backs receive: Reds/Braves prospects, Poreda, Richard, 2 low-level PTBNL (pitching, Gilmore, Morel, Escobar, etc)

Braves or Reds receive: Jermaine Dye

 

That way the Sox can only take on Haren's deal this year and Dye-Byrnes becomes a wash, and the Sox also keep some prospects.

[southsider2k5]

The Padres have to trade Peavy or trim a lot of payroll elsewhere. The D-Backs don't have to trade Harden, and he's signed for a lot less money. I'd take either of them, but there is no way Poreda and Richard and a couple of lower level prospects get you Harden.

 

The Diamondbacks might not be under a public mandate to cut salary, but they have been losing $40-50 million a year when the economy was good. With them having a bad time, there very well could be a quiet look into a large salary dump down there.

[southsider2k5]

Is Webb hurt this year?

 

They said yesterday Webb is beginning long toss and working up to be able to start a rehab assignment.

[southsider2k5]

Ya, that was another name I was going to throw out. I think if the Dbacks were smart they'd package him in a Haren deal. That is of course if they are looking to just clear payroll. If they are looking to get the most talent package and money isn't much of an object its another story.

 

For example, even if the Dbacks paid a significant portion of Byrnes salary and gave us Haren, we'd be talking about a much smaller packaeg for Haren. Would the Sox do it, probably not, but again, it might be the only way to get Haren without giving up our top 3 or 4 prospects.

 

Does Byrnes play CF?

[Dick Allen]

The Diamondbacks might not be under a public mandate to cut salary, but they have been losing $40-50 million a year when the economy was good. With them having a bad time, there very well could be a quiet look into a large salary dump down there.

Its not like he's making $15 million a year. If he was available for the same price that Peavy could be had, considering you know he's been successful in the AL, his contract is at least $20 million cheaper if not more, because as far as I know doesn't have a NTC, KW would have been a fool to agree to trade for Peavy instead of Haren. There's probably a 99.99% chance he's not getting traded, and if the .01 % does come to fruition KW is going to have to empty the Birmingham roster to even have a chance.

 

BTW, they aren't losing $40-50 million a year unless you're using Jerry Reinsdorf's accountant

 

The Arizona Diamondbacks are valued at $390 million, placing the franchise 19th out of the 30 teams in Major League Baseball, according to Forbes annual list of team valuations released Thursday.

 

That’s up 3 percent from last year, as the D-backs received a boost from their television contract with Fox Sports Arizona and a successful year on the field. The team challenged the Los Angeles Dodgers for the National League West crown for most of the year, before faltering at the end of the season.

 

According to Forbes research, the D-backs brought in $177 million in the 2008 season.

 

Two years ago, the team signed a reported eight-year, $250 million deal with Fox Sports Arizona, among the most lucrative deals in baseball.

 

Edited May 28, 2009 by Dick Allen

[Kyyle23]

Its not like he's making $15 million a year. If he was available for the same price that Peavy could be had, considering you know he's been successful in the AL, his contract is at least $20 million cheaper if not more, because as far as I know doesn't have a NTC, KW would have been a fool to agree to trade for Peavy instead of Haren. There's probably a 99.99% chance he's not getting traded, and if the .01 % does come to fruition KW is going to have to empty the Birmingham roster to even have a chance.

 

I dont mind as much as I did yesterday because Beckham is not on the Birmingham roster anymore

[southsider2k5]

Its not like he's making $15 million a year. If he was available for the same price that Peavy could be had, considering you know he's been successful in the AL, his contract is at least $20 million cheaper if not more, because as far as I know doesn't have a NTC, KW would have been a fool to agree to trade for Peavy instead of Haren. There's probably a 99.99% chance he's not getting traded, and if the .01 % does come to fruition KW is going to have to empty the Birmingham roster to even have a chance.

 

BTW, they aren't losing $40-50 million a year unless you're using Jerry Reinsdorf's accountant

 

The Arizona Diamondbacks are valued at $390 million, placing the franchise 19th out of the 30 teams in Major League Baseball, according to Forbes annual list of team valuations released Thursday.

 

That’s up 3 percent from last year, as the D-backs received a boost from their television contract with Fox Sports Arizona and a successful year on the field. The team challenged the Los Angeles Dodgers for the National League West crown for most of the year, before faltering at the end of the season.

 

According to Forbes research, the D-backs brought in $177 million in the 2008 season.

 

Two years ago, the team signed a reported eight-year, $250 million deal with Fox Sports Arizona, among the most lucrative deals in baseball.

 

They also only have Haren for a year and a half, which is a huge consideration for how much you have to give up to get a pitcher. Peavy the Sox would control until 2013.

 

Also the D'backs financial problems have been long documented. I did appreciate the completely one sided postings from Forbes though. Googling the actual FULL STORY gives a very different picture. The team made $3.9 million last year. The big huge $177 million you posted is gross income, I am sure you know the difference. That was before having an only 84% renewal as quoted in the article I looked up, plus their attendance is down a full 10% this year versus last.

 

The interesting part of what you posted in the TV deal is they get 150 games, where as most teams have a much bigger split up of games, which is what leads to the "most lucrative". They get the most games out of any deal, so they pay more than most. The other interesting part you left out is that the network sells all of the advertising during those games, which means the team sees none of that money, unlike most teams in professional sports, which also leads the deal to be worth more, as the team is losing out on that revenue stream.

 

We have also had the debate over what team valuation actually means... nothing. That isn't income, profit, capital... nothing. That is a number of a piece of paper. GM is worth billions, it doesn't mean they are worth a dime. It is a terrible argument for if a team is losing money or not.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/18/magazines/...rtune/index.htm

 

Because the sports world glided over past recessions, executives don't have a lot of experience managing through financial crises. The Diamondbacks are an exception. Their fan-friendly approach was born of an earlier crisis - albeit one of management's own making. The Diamondbacks nearly became the first major sports team to win a championship one year and be out of business the next. "The team was effectively bankrupt in 2002," says Ken Kendrick, the D-backs' principal owner since 2004 and a minority owner during the early years.

 

The culprit: gross overspending on free agents. While Arizona's profligate ways under former owner Jerry Colangelo did produce a championship and help the new franchise solidify a fan base, the financial impact was disastrous. "In our first seven years we lost $353 million," Hall says. The old regime got around its cash-flow problems by persuading players to accept contracts backloaded with large deferred payments. It was baseball's version of "buy now, pay later," and eight years after the victory parade the Diamondbacks still owe $58 million in deferred salary, most of it to long-gone players from that 2001 team.

 

When Kendrick and former co-owner Jeff Moorad took control in 2004, their first order of business was to shrink player payroll. (A former players' agent, Moorad recently left the Diamondbacks to buy the San Diego Padres.) Between 2002 and 2008, the team's Opening Day payroll fell from $103 million, fourth highest in baseball, to $66 million, 12th lowest (out of 30). "We're not New York, we're not L.A," says Kendrick, who made his money in software and banking. "We're a middle-market team, and we needed to build our spending plan accordingly."

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Haren's contract:

 

2009: $7.5M

2010: $8.25M

2011: $12.75M

2012: $12.75M

2013: $15.5M ($3.5M buyout)

[southsider2k5]

Haren's contract:

 

2009: $7.5M

2010: $8.25M

2011: $12.75M

2012: $12.75M

2013: $15.5M ($3.5M buyout)

 

Ah, I was thinking of Webb. My mistake.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Ah, I was thinking of Webb. My mistake.

Webb is the one I think we have a very realistic shot at, but probably during the offseason only. I'd absolutely love to have him.

[Dick Allen]

They also only have Haren for a year and a half, which is a huge consideration for how much you have to give up to get a pitcher. Peavy the Sox would control until 2013.

 

Also the D'backs financial problems have been long documented. I did appreciate the completely one sided postings from Forbes though. Googling the actual FULL STORY gives a very different picture. The team made $3.9 million last year. The big huge $177 million you posted is gross income, I am sure you know the difference. That was before having an only 84% renewal as quoted in the article I looked up, plus their attendance is down a full 10% this year versus last.

 

The interesting part of what you posted in the TV deal is they get 150 games, where as most teams have a much bigger split up of games, which is what leads to the "most lucrative". They get the most games out of any deal, so they pay more than most. The other interesting part you left out is that the network sells all of the advertising during those games, which means the team sees none of that money, unlike most teams in professional sports, which also leads the deal to be worth more, as the team is losing out on that revenue stream.

 

We have also had the debate over what team valuation actually means... nothing. That isn't income, profit, capital... nothing. That is a number of a piece of paper. GM is worth billions, it doesn't mean they are worth a dime. It is a terrible argument for if a team is losing money or not.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/18/magazines/...rtune/index.htm

 

I was just pointing out your saying they are losing $40-50 million a year, is far from correct. As of 2008, the ownership group had cut over $100 million from their debt.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Dick Allen

[RockRaines]

BTW, they aren't losing $40-50 million a year unless you're using Jerry Reinsdorf's accountant

Gotta love that not-so-subtle shot at JR. Hilarious.

[Dick Allen]

Gotta love that not-so-subtle shot at JR. Hilarious.

I actually like JR. There are so many inconsistencies with finances though, it makes one wonder. On one hand here's this exceptionally bright man who will tell you sports ownership isn't a good business to be in, so after he bought the White Sox, he put together a group to buy the Bulls, now at 72 he's rumored to have interest in the bankrupt Phoenix Coyotes. The White Sox have no money to spend, yet they try to sign Hunter and then Fukudome,then agree to a trade for Peavy. And for a guy who needs to watch every penny, he sure does have a nice ride, that private jet of his.

[santo=dorf]

It should be noted in typical rookie fashion, Cabrera completely shutdown the Sox the first time we faced him. I remember staying up about 40 hours straight studying for finals but slept through that game.

[RockRaines]

I actually like JR. There are so many inconsistencies with finances though, it makes one wonder. On one hand here's this exceptionally bright man who will tell you sports ownership isn't a good business to be in, so after he bought the White Sox, he put together a group to buy the Bulls, now at 72 he's rumored to have interest in the bankrupt Phoenix Coyotes. The White Sox have no money to spend, yet they try to sign Hunter and then Fukudome,then agree to a trade for Peavy. And for a guy who needs to watch every penny, he sure does have a nice ride, that private jet of his.

He doesnt make his money on the Sox, he makes it on the Bulls and the United Center and his other businesses. He also has other folks to answer to on the board for the Sox. Quite frankly, anything he says about business any which way is better than any input you or I or anyone else on the board could add.

 

JR>all of us

 

Also on the Peavy thing, KW said he had been working on that deal for quite a long time, did you ever stop and think that they left some payroll space to add an impact player like that as the season wore on? Thats why you dont blow your entire load before first pitch.

Edited May 28, 2009 by RockRaines

[Dick Allen]

He doesnt make his money on the Sox, he makes it on the Bulls and the United Center and his other businesses. He also has other folks to answer to on the board for the Sox. Quite frankly, anything he says about business any which way is better than any input you or I or anyone else on the board could add.

 

JR>all of us

 

Also on the Peavy thing, KW said he had been working on that deal for quite a long time, did you ever stop and think that they left some payroll space to add an impact player like that as the season wore on? Thats why you dont blow your entire load before first pitch.

I considered that until I found out KW didn't tell JR about it until very recently. Wouldn't JR want to know why KW isn't spending the money that was allocated?

The fact the JR wouldn't pay a luxury tax even though he's made millions and millions when his Bulls were winning 15 games a year shows he doesn't want to operate in the red any season,even if it is only cutting a tiny percentage into his profits.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Dick Allen

[RockRaines]

I considered that until I found out KW didn't tell JR about it until very recently. Wouldn't JR want to know why KW isn't spending the money that was allocated?

Found out about it how exactly?

[Dick Allen]

Found out about it how exactly?

It was in the paper and KW called JR who was in NYC walking down Park Ave. He supposedly almost walked into a car off the curb. He jokingly said that he felt rich walking down Park Ave. so he had no problem with the deal. He said if he happened to be walking down 3rd Ave. he wouldn't have felt so rich.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

It was in the paper and KW called JR who was in NYC walking down Park Ave. He supposedly almost walked into a car off the curb. He jokingly said that he felt rich walking down Park Ave. so he had no problem with the deal. He said if he happened to be walking down 3rd Ave. he wouldn't have felt so rich.

Seriously? That is how you "know?"

 

Is not possible that the Sox lost a bunch of sponsors and had to lower payroll going into the season, but because of management's uncertainty re: the economy, KW was told that if things look good going into June he'd be able to add an "impact player?"

 

Kenny said he was working on the deal without speaking to JR, and only informed him once it was basically done. Isn't it possible that Jerry is now more comfortable adding payroll if it means a special player?

 

And isn't it also possible that, in working the Peavy deal, Kenny worked out the basics of a side deal for Thome/Dye/PK that would free up money? Perhaps a secondary move was coming, and Jerry's approval was needed simply due to the length of Peavy's contract.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[RockRaines]

It was in the paper and KW called JR who was in NYC walking down Park Ave. He supposedly almost walked into a car off the curb. He jokingly said that he felt rich walking down Park Ave. so he had no problem with the deal. He said if he happened to be walking down 3rd Ave. he wouldn't have felt so rich.

Pffff. Come on, the paper? Yes, besides being bumbling business men, they also completely give the newspapers every intimate detail of their lives and their decisions.

[Dick Allen]

Seriously? That is how you "know?"

 

Is not possible that the Sox lost a bunch of sponsors and had to lower payroll going into the season, but because of management's uncertainty re: the economy, KW was told that if things look good going into June he'd be able to add an "impact player?"

 

Kenny said he was working on the deal without speaking to JR, and only informed him once it was basically done. Isn't it possible that Jerry is now more comfortable adding payroll if it means a special player?

 

And isn't it also possible that, in working the Peavy deal, Kenny worked out the basics of a side deal for Thome/Dye/PK that would free up money? Perhaps a secondary move was coming, and Jerry's approval was needed simply due to the length of Peavy's contract.

So let me get this straight, the White Sox would be willing to bust their budget by $8-9 million, what they would have to pay Peavy this year because he is this mythical "special" player, the one who if acquired guarantees the White Sox will win? You need to look at the rest of the roster. The fact is, if they are holding money aside for these so-called "special players" they aren't usuing the every dime in goes out method they claim, because the only guy they added that "guaranteed" victory turned out to be Geoff Blum.

[Dick Allen]

Pffff. Come on, the paper? Yes, besides being bumbling business men, they also completely give the newspapers every intimate detail of their lives and their decisions.

From the Daily Herald:

 

So how did he plan on paying for Peavy, who has a guaranteed $63 million left on a contract that runs through 2012 and also has a $22 million club option for 2013?

 

"We were going to figure that out along the way," Williams said. "That's not too much of a stretch. The funny thing was, when I told Jerry (Reinsdorf) what was going on - I kept this from him for a long time - when I finally told him what was going on, I should have asked him, 'Hey, where are you?' Because evidently, when I finally told, he almost stepped off the curb and got hit by a car in New York."

 

Reinsdorf verified the story Friday, and he jokingly said he approved the deal because he was strolling down Park Avenue.

 

"Walking down Park Avenue, I felt rich," Reinsdorf said. "Good thing I wasn't walking down Third Avenue."

 

 

Edited May 28, 2009 by Dick Allen

[Kyyle23]

From the Daily Herald:

 

So how did he plan on paying for Peavy, who has a guaranteed $63 million left on a contract that runs through 2012 and also has a $22 million club option for 2013?

 

"We were going to figure that out along the way," Williams said. "That's not too much of a stretch. The funny thing was, when I told Jerry (Reinsdorf) what was going on - I kept this from him for a long time - when I finally told him what was going on, I should have asked him, 'Hey, where are you?' Because evidently, when I finally told, he almost stepped off the curb and got hit by a car in New York."

 

Reinsdorf verified the story Friday, and he jokingly said he approved the deal because he was strolling down Park Avenue.

 

"Walking down Park Avenue, I felt rich," Reinsdorf said. "Good thing I wasn't walking down Third Avenue."

 

 

LOL, yes this is quite the intimate business decision here DA. You sure learned a whole lot from JR here, this is practically an entire volumes worth of "Jerry Reinsdorf, the way to do business" when you see how Jerry Reinsdorf was informed of a trade.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

LOL, yes this is quite the intimate business decision here DA. You sure learned a whole lot from JR here, this is practically an entire volumes worth of "Jerry Reinsdorf, the way to do business" when you see how Jerry Reinsdorf was informed of a trade.

As I said earlier JR was joking. The telling thing was he had no idea KW was after Peavy which would have added about $8-9 million to this year's payroll. KW has said JR is willing to bust payroll for one player that will guarantee they will win. Peavy is an ace, I wish he said yes, but if you look at the rest of the roster, he's not that guy. Alber Pujols isn't that guy. That guy isn't playing right now anywhere.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Dick Allen

[Kyyle23]

As I said earlier JR was joking. The telling thing was he had no idea KW was after Peavy which would have added about $8-9 million to this year's payroll.

 

So its not possible to have a businessman deliberately mislead a paper, huh?